Logos is NOT a Ministry
Comments
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Bob Pritchett said:
the users (of all tech products) have spoken very clearly that they like "the cloud", even with its flaws.
As one who never thought the cloud would matter either way to me, I'm one who is dependent on my Kindle Cloud, on my Zotero cloud, and now even my Microsoft Officee 2013 (beta) cloud. The only cloud product I use in which the cloud hasn't become essential is my calendar.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
As one who never thought the cloud would matter either way to me, I'm one who is dependent on my Kindle Cloud, on my Zotero cloud, and now even my Microsoft Officee 2013 (beta) cloud. The only cloud product I use in which the cloud hasn't become essential is my calendar.
Good for you --you get to sell all your information to others so you can have a little convenience. There's some quote in the back of my mind about security and freedom that you might want to try and find.
When the service is free, you are the product.
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Russ White said:
is precisely why I've learned to enjoy the software while distrusting the company.
Speaking strictly for myself as a "little old lady in walking shoes", I can honestly say this is why I have learned to simply accept people and businesses as they are and concentrate my energy where it can be useful especially useful for God's purposes. In my particular case that means leaving all the worrying to my 97 year old Mother and 75 year old sister. They are far better at it than I.[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Russ,
Your assuming that all users like you don't want our stuff on the cloud. Well some of us do. I use both a MacBook Pro and an iPad. I want my documents and mark-ups synced. If I take my notes on my desktop where I have more robust research features I want my notes added to my iPad when I need it at church. You may not want to have your stuff on the cloud. But it's pretty arrogant to say that Bob is not doing the morally right thing by not doing what you want. A morally right thing would be true for everyone...what you want is your personal preference.
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Philana Crouch said:
Your assuming that all users like you don't want our stuff on the cloud.
No, I'm assuming users should have the tools and options available to choose what they want to put in the cloud and still get full use out of the software they purchase.
As for "morally right," I think you're being pretty arrogant in your reaction to my statement
But I'm not going to wander any more into the weeds on this discussion --I was trying to point out why I'm struggling to trust Logos as a company, and folks want to turn the discussion into how wonderful the cloud is. Believe away, but remember that when a cloud comes to earth, they call it fog.
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In case you missed the point, just take a look at Bob's latest blog post:
http://firesomeonetoday.com/profit_is_why_you_are_in_business.html
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Bob's post was very informative.
However, my experience has shown if you PUT CUSTOMERS FIRST, then profit will take care of itself.
Perhaps Logos needs to fall in love with its customers a bit more...
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Russ White said:
security and freedom that you might want to try and find.
I am well supplied on both sides including the security of well-informed decisions (IT professional) and being of an age that gives me relatively few responsibilities - except for those I choose for moral or pleasure reasons. Luckily for me the moral and pleasure are usually in sync ... another advantage of age.[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Russ White said:
but remember that when a cloud comes to earth, they call it fog.
In the Pacific Northwest we call it "liquid sunshine"[:P]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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AMEN Dave.0
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Bob Pritchett said:Russ White said:
Not that I can imagine how a phrase search engine would be tied to content.
I'm sorry if the description is confusing. The software has been able to search for phrases for 21 years -- just put the phrase in double-quotes. The new feature is support for a human-edited, manually described lexicon of significant biblical phrases. "Kingdom of God", "Kingdom of Heaven", etc. We've manually identified a thousand significant phrases, connected their Greek and Hebrew instances to the various English renderings, written descriptions for the phrases, and integrated them into relevant guides.
I am currently working on a similar project -- extracting the keyphrase from tens of thousands of documents to use for cross-referencing and other purposes. We dont need the extreme high quality of a manual extraction, so I am automating it. Cheaper though still expensive. Faster, though still time-consuming.
The search algorithm that we are going to use with this keyphrase data is relatively simple, but it is utterly worthless without the source keyphrase data and the better quality the keyphrase data is, the better quality the search results are.
There are a lot of ways to improve search engines based on having the right content for the search algorithm to use. Imagine a synonym search engine without a thesaurus. It wouldnt really work because it lacks the content to know what word roughly mean the same thing.
Bob Pritchett said:In the future you'll have more capabilities; I expect we'll support finding a phrase across multiple translations, even if the translators modified it slightly in different passages or contexts or versions.
That is going to be sweet!
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Russ White said:
We need to stop treating Logos, the company, with "kid gloves," just because we hold the mindset that they are a "Christian company," with our best interests at heart.
Totally agree with this! While I don't have a lot of issue right now, though I would like to see a major issue with the highlighters fixed in the Android app and would like to see improvement to the Sermon File, bringing it closer to the original - so I do not have to change the way I prepare my sermons just for use with Logos. Otherwise I have seen some really "kid glove" responses to customer concerns... One was comparing the fact that Logos will not fully function PBBs that are competition with what they sell even though they are free open domain books as the equivalent of Microsoft giving access to Open Office on their servers.... Ridiculous as Microsoft is not taking someone else's work and selling it for profit... Yes Logos puts work into the conversion, but so does the customer who uses PBB for the same free resource...
The other was the mention of the minimal profit margin when someone complained about the high costs of the upgrades in comparison to what you are actually getting... If Logos runs it profit margin as a whole - then we Bible study customers WILL have to pay higher prices to cover their endeavors into Proclaim, Faithlife, etc even if we have no use or want nothing to do with them...
So let's just be fair and real with addressing customer complaints instead of always wearing rose colored Logos glasses.... There have been many alienated and turned away by the overbearing "fanboy" atmosphere in these forums...
While Logos is a great tool to know Jesus more - Logos is not Jesus and some need to remember that when standing up for them.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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to me,
if a feature can only work with some specific content - then they shouldn't be 'sold' separately in terms of 'hand coded databases' that also are not used for any other purpose.
If however you are selling a book, and you can ALSO just read it, or use 'normal' features of it then in regards to the ADDITIONAL feature Label it is justified - but the feature should not be promoted without the content.
Also in my opinion give away the basic platform as you have, but if you cut sick on some crazy feature WHERE ALL THE VALUE is in the code - then sell the code. otherwise you'll make second rate code - and have no incentive to put value into your product in terms of high quality features.
In saying this I think that sometimes Logos is creating good features - but it doesn't make sense to me if you say: "i'll include the functionality" but you can't use it without the db - just so the 'we sell content not code' statement is upheld.
I hope that I have been neutral enough in my comments..
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Actually , Bobs post is a good business example. He learned hard lessons well.
Good for him.
Without that, there would be no Logos and your investment would be worthless now.
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CEOs of Accordance and Bibleworks also frequent the forums for those products. This is not at all uncommon for bible software companies.
Rich+
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Monroe R Miller said:
CEOs of Accordance and Bibleworks also frequent the forums for those products.
I can testify to that for Accordance. Helen Brown even called me at home from Europe because of an issue I had mentioned in a forum.
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Jack Caviness said:
I can testify to that for Accordance. Helen Brown even called me at home from Europe because of an issue I had mentioned in a forum.
I've even had Accordance contact me for things I've mentioned in the Logos forums! But I always thought that a little sneaky of them. (uhoh, may have just set myself up for another email!)
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Frank Sauer said:
One was comparing the fact that Logos will not fully function PBBs that are competition with what they sell even though they are free open domain books as the equivalent of Microsoft giving access to Open Office on their
Fred,
All PBB are fully functional, what Logos has said is that when they create the place for us to share or sell PBB's that we not use their site to host books that compete with products they are selling. Merely on their site, you can share them elsewhere. Any PBB's is as fully functional as any other, regardless if you made one from a work Logos sells.
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Chris Roberts said:
I've even had Accordance contact me for things I've mentioned in the Logos forums! But I always thought that a little sneaky of them.
Had a lengthy conversion (email exchange) with David Lange resulting from a comment I made in the L4 Mac forum [8-|]
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Logos is about making money for Logos. That is all.
Logos is not a Christian company. It is a company that sells software to Christians. It's all about money. Logos 4 was absolute garbage. Logos 5 is not an upgrade to Logos 4, but rather a way to inject cash into Logos. Whenever Logos needs a large infusion of cash, they come out with a new version. Logos 5 will just be more of the same broken promises and bugs that Logos 4 was. So many people have so much invested in Logos that they feel compelled to keep throwing cash to keep the investment "fresh". Logos counts on this and knows that most people that have paid high dollar to get on the Logos train are going to fork over the loot to stay on the train, even if the train never goes anywhere.
Logos 4 was actually Logos Cash Injection 4 and what you are experiencing now is Logos Cash Injection 5.
Enjoy! [:D]
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This thread is so funny, I'll schedule some time to read all of it! I don't see anything unfair in Logos making money from some products and little money from some titles if that was what this thread was about? If they would make equally much money from every title and product two things would happen:
* they would have to adjust the regular prices sometimes
* the prices would be even more unfair - it would be difficult to see the logic when comparing two items.I doubt Logos is trying to make money just because of short-term concerns.
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
777 said:
Logos 4 was actually...
Hi 777,
You make a number of assertions in this and some of your other posts which are, I fear, wildly inaccurate. I presume, therefore, you have not read the release material, some of the clarifications issued by Logos on this forum and the positive feedback provided by the Logos community in respect of L5.
Firstly, you will note that the feedback regarding L5 has been broadly, if not predominantly, positive. There have been some marked improvements in respect of the performance and functionality of L5.
Secondly, Logos have announced that they intend to introduce a minimal crossgrade which will provide much of the functionality of L5 at a lower cost and that they intend to release the L5 engine at no cost (albeit without the functionality afforded by the new datasets). Mr Bob Pritchett (CEO of Logos) comments further, here,
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx
Thirdly, and most importantly, there is no obligation to upgrade. L4 continues to be supported, indeed, I understand that further service releases are planned. You are at liberty to continue to use and enjoy L4 indefinitely.
I hope this clarifies.
Blessings in your decision [:D]
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Unix said:
This thread is so funny, I'll schedule some time to read all of it!
That could be dangerous to your sanity (says one who has read every post—no comment on his sanity [8-|])
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Andy Evans said:
Hi 777,
Why, Hi there, Andy.
Just keep drinking the kool-aid.
[View:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid:550:0]
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