Logos 5: Pastors and Parishioners
Instead of Starter, Bronze, etc. versions of Logos 5 upgrades, we really need groups for pastors and other groups for parishioners.
For example, those Sermon Starter resources really only benefit Pastors. Why should Parishioners buy them? Its the same with most of the other Resources being offered. Most are useless to the average Parishioner.
Perhaps Logos could reorganize their upgrade offers with that in mind.
Being a mere parishioner, I like the idea of most of those datasets and would really like them to be available on my Kindle Fire HD 7" 32 Gb unit. However, I will never be doing massive research on a specific prophet or an Israelite King. I'm lucky to read "Morning and Evening" every day plus a small portion of the New Testament and Psalms.
The big payers are the Pastors since for them it is a BUSINESS EXPENSE usually paid by the Church.
Parishioners must make a personal purchase and will never need or use most of those resources.
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I'd say a fair number of the people on the forums are not pastors but laymen purchasing for their own study, and making use of many of the resources one might normally expect only pastors to find interesting. The stuff is useful to everyone.
Sir Maru said:The big payers are the Pastors since for them it is a BUSINESS EXPENSE usually paid by the Church.
I wish this were true! I'm a pastor yet most of my purchases have been out of pocket, including my L5 upgrade. Wouldn't happen without the payment plan and careful juggling of our budget. Even then we've had to set aside some other things we had anticipated purchasing. I get a small expense account from the church, one which must last throughout the year and hardly covers everything I spend on various ministry expenses. My guess is this is the case for most pastors - even without the added burden of Logos resources and upgrades!
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I'm with you Sir Maru. Maybe I should go through my library and hide 80% of the books I have that are of no help to me. The thing that puts me off taking an upgrade bundle, even to Starter, is that the majority of the package would need to be hidden.
If I did upgrade, would I still have to pay the full price of the crossgrade to get all the features? Further, what are the minimum resources needed to take advantage of those features?
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I don't disagree with your point, Sir Maru. When I looked at the 'Bronze' I wondered if there was ANY books in it I might conceivable use. The only ones were the newbies (Lexham's).
But I can easily see the day when the average pastor has a smaller library than his audience. I know in our little church some of us look with carefully hidden glances to see what our fellow Bible studiers are using this week. At New Years, just 'happen' to mention some new books, only to find the pastor got the really good commentary at 1/4 of Logos. Grrr.
But these days, Bible study is really fun. Discussions have to be cut off for worship service. And as you listen to the sermon, you surmise his sources. Sometimes the discussion moves over to the local brewery with a question from a friend's daughter 'Why isn't God a girl?', which then moves on to Odes of Solomon and how that could have been picked up by the early church fathers.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Chris Roberts said:
I wish this were true! I'm a pastor yet most of my purchases have been out of pocket, including my L5 upgrade. Wouldn't happen without the payment plan and careful juggling of our budget. Even then we've had to set aside some other things we had anticipated purchasing. I get a small expense account from the church, one which must last throughout the year and hardly covers everything I spend on various ministry expenses. My guess is this is the case for most pastors - even without the added burden of Logos resources and upgrades!
That's too bad. Frankly, I believe every Church should have a Logos line in their budget for the Pastor. The entire Church would benefit in sermon quality alone if the best Logos 5 package was available to the Pastor. The Pastor should not have to pay for this with his personal funds.
However, the flock needs a Logos 5 package with a different orientation: Bible Study, not Sermons.
I'll just wait for the upgrade until I see some package serving the Layman, exclusively, and not including all those other resources.
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I hope you are not over-estimating the clergy/parishioner distinction. I know there are a variety of views about this, but I as an ordained pastor with graduate degrees LOVE when the people of our congregation study the Word and speak its truth to one another. As a matter of fact, my primary care physician is a Logos user and (until recently) owned a bigger Logos library than me
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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David Thomas said:
I hope you are not over-estimating the clergy/parishioner distinction. I know there are a variety of views about this, but I as an ordained pastor with graduate degrees LOVE when the people of our congregation study the Word and speak its truth to one another.
Indeed, amen, say in!
Sir Maru said:That's too bad. Frankly, I believe every Church should have a Logos line in their budget for the Pastor.
I wish every church could have a good book budget for pastors, but many churches are like mine: small and struggling to keep the budget balanced as it is.
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Sir Maru said:
That's too bad. Frankly, I believe every Church should have a Logos line in their budget for the Pastor.
+1 (easier for me to say now since I am not currently serving vocationally).
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Sir Maru said:
Instead of Starter, Bronze, etc. versions of Logos 5 upgrades, we really need groups for pastors and other groups for parishioners.
For example, those Sermon Starter resources really only benefit Pastors. Why should Parishioners buy them? Its the same with most of the other Resources being offered. Most are useless to the average Parishioner.
Sir Maru said:The big payers are the Pastors since for them it is a BUSINESS EXPENSE usually paid by the Church.
Your points are well taken, Sir Maru. I can see the need for upgrade packages aimed at laity. However, you are wrong about pastors packages being paid by the Church. Not so for many, and definately not for me.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Michael Childs said:
Your points are well taken, Sir Maru. I can see the need for upgrade packages aimed at laity. However, you are wrong about pastors packages being paid by the Church. Not so for many, and definately not for me.
Perhaps, Forum members, who happen to be Session and / or Council members, could set up a special Logos Fund where the laity could donate whatever moves them. Then that Fund could purchase whatever package it could afford for the Pastor.
I can see a Pastor's sermons being definitely improved by a Logos package which would benefit the entire Congregation, not just the Pastor. Better sermons could even pursuade some visitors to become new members allowing the entire Church to grow.
Stagnant Churches are usually the result of stagnant sermons.
Maybe Logos, itself, could offer discounts to Churches where Pastors and Laity buy multiple packages, preferably a top package for the Pastor and specially designed Laity packages for the rest. A special Upgrade package with a minimum level for the Pastor and a minumum number of Laity grades for the Congregation could be offered which would actually benefit entire Churches.
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Chris Roberts said:Sir Maru said:
Stagnant Churches are usually the result of stagnant sermons.
Perhaps a little time in the pastorate would help with some of these misconceptions.
Agreed...what if the current pastor is new, what if previously there was a church split. Many reasons for stagnant churches is not due to stagnant sermons.
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Very true on church splits. As I mentioned in a thread a while back, a group came to our little town (only 30+ churches for 4,000 households most of which are new age, so do the math) and using Powerpoints, demonstrated how the pastors were the primary reason growth had come to a halt (actually severe negative growth).
Well, as you can imagine, the pastors didn't appreciate the Powerpoints and certainly not the pointed criticism, and successfully kicked the group out of town. Of course then the churches 'split', which really meant the members traded places or 'church hopped' as the pastors like to say.
I kind of doubt Logos would have helped too much.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I am a professional therapist that does pastoral/Christian counseling within the larger therapy practice where I work. I look at this version 5 and wonder why in the world would I want yet another update that is even more distant from the study approaches that I learned in seminary. Especially at $300.00 plus on even the most limited upgrade available from my Scholar's package. On the rare ocassion I return to this web site I just scratch my head and wonder "Is there anyone in there?"
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Sir Maru said:
However, the flock needs a Logos 5 package with a different orientation: Bible Study, not Sermons.
Are you aware of the Faithlife Study Bible? http://faithlifebible.com/ . I have more details in a blog post I wrote when we released the Faithlife Study Bible, here: http://www.supakoo.com/rick/ricoblog/2012/06/26/TheFaithlifeStudyBibleIsNowAvailableFromLogos.aspx
It is a mobile app, for both iOS and Android. It is from Logos. The resources are Logos resources, so if a user has this study Bible and its associated resources (Bible, Dictionary, infographics, videos, photos, devotionals) they will work in Logos Bible Software (PC/Mac, or even on Biblia.com).
The Faithlife Study Bible was basically conceived as a tool for parishioners and others who may find the larger packages and tools overwhelming. It is our shot at a study Bible, only informed by what we do at Logos. It is for the person who likes to have a study Bible as their primary study tool.
Try it with the coupon code "free". That will license the Faithlife Study Bible through March 2014, I believe. You then should be able to use the resources in Logos on your desktop, or on mobile versions of Logos, or in the Faithlife Study Bible app itself. If you like it, then tell other folks about it who want something but who also might not want the larger Logos packages.
Anyway, I wanted to mention this as I think it answers your question about a "package serving the layman". Hopefully it helps you with what you're looking for.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
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Sir Maru said:
The big payers are the Pastors since for them it is a BUSINESS EXPENSE usually paid by the Church.
Hmmm. Not so in my case (and I suspect for many others as well). While I keep the receipt and use it as part of my pastoral expenses that are deductible from my salary and therefore my tax burden is decreased (within the limits set by my contract and the IRS) I do have to pay for it out of pocket. I prefer it that way since the software then belongs to me and if I leave to go to another congregation I can take it with me.
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Rick Brannan (Logos) said:
Are you aware of the Faithlife Study Bible? http://faithlifebible.com/ . I have more details in a blog post I wrote when we released the Faithlife Study Bible, here: http://www.supakoo.com/rick/ricoblog/2012/06/26/TheFaithlifeStudyBibleIsNowAvailableFromLogos.aspx
It is a mobile app, for both iOS and Android. It is from Logos. The resources are Logos resources, so if a user has this study Bible and its associated resources (Bible, Dictionary, infographics, videos, photos, devotionals) they will work in Logos Bible Software (PC/Mac, or even on Biblia.com).
The Faithlife Study Bible was basically conceived as a tool for parishioners and others who may find the larger packages and tools overwhelming. It is our shot at a study Bible, only informed by what we do at Logos. It is for the person who likes to have a study Bible as their primary study tool.
Try it with the coupon code "free". That will license the Faithlife Study Bible through March 2014, I believe. You then should be able to use the resources in Logos on your desktop, or on mobile versions of Logos, or in the Faithlife Study Bible app itself. If you like it, then tell other folks about it who want something but who also might not want the larger Logos packages.
Anyway, I wanted to mention this as I think it answers your question about a "package serving the layman". Hopefully it helps you with what you're looking for.
Will my Logos notes and other resources appear in Faithlife? Will Logos 5 have a Faithlife equivalent? It notice there are additional charges for Bibles I already own in Logos. If I sign in with my Logos ID and password, will there still be additional charges for those Bibles?
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You would use your Logos log in when signing up for Faithlife. You will have all resources in your Logos library, including Logos. Faithlife is integrated more in Logos 5, and it has it's own mobile app. All your notes and highlights sync.
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Sir Maru said:
It notice there are additional charges for Bibles I already own in Logos. If I sign in with my Logos ID and password, will there still be additional charges for those Bibles?
No. Those "charges" are for people who want those translations but don't own the Logos resources… (ie. the "parishioners")
Sir Maru said:Will Logos 5 have a Faithlife equivalent?
What do you mean?
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