A Bug in L5 Hebrew Word Study?
As I used the L5 words study on Hebrew words, I notice that there are no results for "root" and inconsistent results for "translation." The ESV never has any results for "translation" of Hebrew words, and other versions seem to have results at some times but not others.
I didn't experience any of this in L4. Is this a bug or something?
Comments
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Hi Daniel,
Could you give a specific example (ideally with a screenshot), tell us what L5 package you have, and confirm that L5 and all the new resources have finished downloading and indexing?
Thanks,
Mark
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I'm don't know how to send a screen shot, but in the BWS window, as you go down through the pane, you see the word, followed a "lemma" heading with various lexicons which include definitions of the word, followed by "translation," followed by "root," followed by "example uses," followed by "grammatical relationships." Foir Greek words, there are always results for "translation" and "root." But for Hebrew words, there are results only for some of the English translations (but not ESV, which I mainly use), and there are never results for "root."
I upgraded late last week, and downloading and indexing is finished. But when I first downloaded the program, before all the indexing was over ( I didn't realize it was still going on), I tried to use the word study feature for Hebrew words, and everything was running horribly slow, and the program crashed, and these features were missing. When the indexing was finished, the program ran faster and smoother, but these features were still missing. Could it be that something went wrong with the download? Would it help to download the program again?
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I have the same problem. Logos 5 Platinum package with all updates (I think). Martin.
[img]http://picturepush.com/public/11354241[/img]0 -
Here is a screenshot:
[url]http://picturepush.com/public/11354241[/url]0 -
Thanks, Martin. My screenshot would look the same (if I knew how to include it here) except that I have the L5 Bronze, so the "senses" is missing. I suspect it is a bug and it will be fixed in a future update.
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Daniel Brouwer said:
I'm don't know how to send a screen shot...
You can get screenshot programs (both fee and free), but you have one already in Windows. Snipping Tool is a resident screen shot tool that is in your Accessories folder.
I dragged mine to the desktop and then to the task bar so it's always just a click away. It isn't hard to use or figure out. Just click the button, the screen goes hazy, click and drag to create the screenshot window you want, and then save it to your pictures folder. Then use the Insert Media button at the top of the forum input window...
...(the paperclip icon) to insert the screenshot in your post. Simple!
[I]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Thanks David! Here, finally is the screen shot showing the missing results:
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Daniel Brouwer said:
As I used the L5 words study on Hebrew words, I notice that there are no results for "root" and inconsistent results for "translation." The ESV never has any results for "translation" of Hebrew words, and other versions seem to have results at some times but not others.
In another thread the Logos employee responsible for Hebrew roots gave the status of Hebrews roots on some resource (I don't remember which) as just entering the release queue. Resources that lack an interlinear will not populate the sections. The Hebrew interlinear tagging is sometimes released later than in Greek interlinear.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Daniel Brouwer said:
Thanks, Martin. My screenshot would look the same (if I knew how to
include it here) except that I have the L5 Bronze, so the "senses" is
missing. I suspect it is a bug and it will be fixed in a future update.Bible Senses is a feature that doesn't come with Bronze, but you may be able to get it with the Crossgrade.
Daniel Brouwer said:Thanks David! Here, finally is the screen shot showing the missing results:
How are you starting the BWS for this word?
If you start BWS from 1 Sa 25:10 in ESV (right click menu) you will get better results.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Daniel Brouwer said:
Thanks David! Here, finally is the screen shot showing the missing results:
It looks like there's a morphology problem here. Two questions:
- How are you running the BWS? Right click from another resource (which one)? or typing the lemma in the reference box?
- What's your highest prioritized Bible that supports Hebrew morphology?
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My highest priority Bible is the ESV.
I click on the blue hebrew word from the list of words in the exegetical guide:
and this is what I get in the BSG:
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I tried that, Dave. I went to 1 Samuel 25:10 in the ESV, right clicked on "cried" and went to a BWS on the word, and still got no results for "translation" and "root." If you got results in those places, I think this isn't a bug in the program, and that my problems are due to a messed up download. How can I get a fresh download?
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Thanks for that info. I'm sure the problem is related to a morphology change in Logos 5, but I'm not sure yet what's causing the issue specifically for you. (L4 normally used AFAT morphology in the OT, whilst L5 uses Logos Hebrew Morphology.) That would explain why your spark graphs are missing, and why most of your lexicons are missing.
I'm having to guess at the causes, because it's not a problem I've seen before. It's possible your ESV hasn't updated correctly, or perhaps you're using an old Exegetical Guide from L4.
If you click the info panel on your ESV and scroll to the bottom it will give you the version information. It should look like this:
LLS:1.0.710
2012-11-01T16:52:55Z
ESV.logos4RVI:ESVNT
2012-10-11T20:40:31Z
ESVNT.lbsrviRVI:ESVOT
2012-11-01T00:05:22Z
ESVOT.lbsrviIf that's correct, try running a completely new exegetical guide for a verse for which you've not got an EG saved, and see if that gives different results.
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My version is the one you indicated, and it doesn't make any difference to start a new exegetical guide. What about the possibility my download got messed up? I had no problems with L4.
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Daniel Brouwer said:
What about the possibility my download got messed up?
It's possible, of course. Try typing update resources in the command bar. It will take 5-30 minutes (depending on your library size) to check every resources is downloaded.
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Have you got the Lexham Hebrew Bible (LHB)?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Daniel Brouwer said:
and this is what I get in the BSG:
Can you check that you're not restricting the BWS to a certain part of the OT (it should say 'All Passages' or 'Entire Bible' or 'Old Testament' just above the lemma section).
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I called tech support and the tech thought that the root of the problem is incomplete indexing-- probably related to my trying to do things in the program while it was still indexing when when I updated to L5 last week.
Per his instruction I typed in the command "Rebuild index," and at the moment it is still says "first time indexing underway." The tech thinks this will solve my problems. I'll find out in a few hours when the process is completed.
BTW, I am very impressed with the technical support. This is the first time I've really used it since purchasing L4 last summer.
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Hi, Daniel. Did you still experience the same problem? I did reindexing, but still no luck. No translation, root and senses on my BSG Hebrew search. Also can't change the ESV to any other version. Can anyone provide more additional clues? Thanks, Martin.0
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Hi Martin,
I reindexed and have the very same problem. BTW I run Windows 7 64 bit. Again, I had no problems whatsoever with L4. One of the features I used most often is not working now.
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Martin Grainger Dean said:
Hi, Daniel. Did you still experience the same problem? I did reindexing, but still no luck. No translation, root and senses on my BSG Hebrew search. Also can't change the ESV to any other version. Can anyone provide more additional clues? Thanks, Martin.
Did you see my question above?
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Thanks, Mark. These are my answers:
1. How are you running the BWS? Right click from another resource (which one)? or typing the lemma in the reference box?
Ans: Either right click on ESV or type lemma h: give same results... Same with let's say LHB. No entries for translation, root or senses. Although I have results for these in Greek searches. The problem seems to be related only to Hebrew searches.
2. What's your highest prioritized Bible that supports Hebrew morphology?
Ans: ESV.
If it is a BUG maybe someone from Logos will jump in and let us know if/when this will be fixed. Don't want to ruin my installation knowing it is a BUG by running additional steps.
Martin.0 -
Thanks Martin. I was particularly interested in this question:
Mark Barnes said:Can you check that you're not restricting the BWS to a certain part of the OT (it should say 'All Passages' or 'Entire Bible' or 'Old Testament' just above the lemma section).
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More details. If I run a Greek search, g:aggelos, I have results only for NT part (ESV translation ring, roots and senses). If I choose Old Testament I have no translation ring and no root (although I have senses). In Hebrew search all these are absent. Maybe a resource mapping problem? Martin.0
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Martin Grainger Dean said:
More details. If I run a Greek search, g:aggelos, I have results only for NT part (ESV translation ring, roots and senses). If I choose Old Testament I have no translation ring and no root (although I have senses). In Hebrew search all these are absent. Maybe a resource mapping problem? Martin.
It still sounds like the BWS is being restricted to part of the NT....
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Mark, I already posted a pic on first page of this thread. It say All passages. Martin.Mark Barnes said:
Thanks Martin. I was particularly interested in this question:Mark Barnes said:
Can you check that you're not restricting the BWS to a certain part of the OT (it should say 'All Passages' or 'Entire Bible' or 'Old Testament' just above the lemma section).0 -
I was able to help Daniel with this issue today. His ESV OT Reverse Interlinear was an old version from August. The rest of the data was current but the OT Rev Int hadn't updated for some reason.
Giving the Update Resources command did the trick.
Thanks,
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I called Tech support and they put me through to Level 2. The tech person took over my computer, and found that I had an old version of the ESV on the Hebrew part, but it was the updated one for the Greek part. I thought I checked the version per Mark's instructions yesterday and it was correct, but apparently I didn't catch the fact it wasn't the same version. Anyway, that was the problem.
BTW, When the tech tried to update the ESV version, it would download to a certain point and then hang up. He did a bunch of stuff I didn't follow, and finally it did update and now everything works fine. He said he didn't know why it was sticking.
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So what do I miss? Here my support info for ESV:
LLS:1.0.710
2012-11-01T16:52:55Z
ESV.logos4
RVI:ESVNT
2012-10-11T20:40:31Z
ESVNT.lbsrvi
RVI:ESVOT
2012-11-01T00:05:22Z
ESVOT.lbsrvi0 -
I have to say that Logos tech support is top notch!
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Now I feel a little better. Looks like your ESV version is supposedly the right one. I was sure mine was too. Nonetheless, redownloading it solved my problem. Computers @#$%!!
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Martin Grainger Dean said:
So what do I miss? Here my support info for ESV:
LLS:1.0.710
2012-11-01T16:52:55Z
ESV.logos4
RVI:ESVNT
2012-10-11T20:40:31Z
ESVNT.lbsrvi
RVI:ESVOT
2012-11-01T00:05:22Z
ESVOT.lbsrviI'd certainly try an update resources in the command bar. Even if your ESV is up to date, you might be missing a lemma mapping file.
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I tried this command yesterday and no updates were found. Well maybe I'll try it tomorrow too. Don't have internet access all the time. Until then what lemma should I look for in my resource folder to have? Martin.0
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I'm beginning to run out of ideas here, so it may be necessary to put it a call to support. But the files I'm thinking of should be in the following folder:
%localappdata%\Logos4\Data\{random}\ResourceManager\Resources\
They have the extension .lbslem
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If you're doing a word specifically in Greek, wouldn't you get only NT hits? I don't think there be an OT ring or translation, and just because "senses" are found for for Hebrew doesn't mean a whole word ring would be created. When I do the BWS(and I have everything on the work machine) g:aggelos, I receive a word ring from the ESV NT, and Septuagint (one of our "feature distribution Data sets: http://www.logos.com/comparison). If you do a search for the English word "Angel" you should get a Hebrew and Greek word wheel.
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Yes. I get hits in ESV translation and Septuagint translation. Actually all BWS is full (all features are full of information)!Tommy Ball said:
If you're doing a word specifically in Greek, wouldn't you get only NT hits?
That's correct. So running a search in Greek (g:aggelos) ONLY in "Old Testament" part and having no ESV translation for this word and no root, is not considered a BUG? Martin.Tommy Ball said:
When I do the BWS(and I have everything on the work machine) g:aggelos, I receive a word ring from the ESV NT, and Septuagint (one of our "feature distribution Data sets: http://www.logos.com/comparison). If you do a search for the English word "Angel" you should get a Hebrew and Greek word wheel.0 -
Thanks, Mark. After trying several times and restarting computer several times I finally get the full BWS. Don't know why or how.Mark Barnes said:
I'd certainly try an update resources in the command bar. Even if your ESV is up to date, you might be missing a lemma mapping file.
Martin. 0 -
Martin Grainger Dean said:
That's correct. So running a search in Greek (g:aggelos) ONLY in "Old Testament" part and having no ESV translation for this word and no root, is not considered a BUG? Martin.I don't think it is a bug that when searching for a Greek word in the Old Testament, the Root element is not populated. I do think it would be a bug (or just a problem with a particular install) if you ran the same search, but in Hebrew, and the Root element was not populated.
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Thanks, Tommy. Appreciate your good help. I have all the data above in their place so I assume it's not a bug some missing data. Thanks again, Martin.Tommy Ball said:
I don't think it is a bug that when searching for a Greek word in the Old Testament, the Root element is not populated. I do think it would be a bug (or just a problem with a particular install) if you ran the same search, but in Hebrew, and the Root element was not populated.0
