I noticed that in Logos 5 there's a pronunciation of the Hebrews, are they related to the resource "Hebrew Audio Pronunciations" here?
So what are the differences?
Thanks.
Kolen,
as far as I know this might be the same thing (have it on pre-Pub for a while). Unfortunately the Logos 5 page had/has a bug insofar that it doesn't display the indicator for the small handful of resources where licences are included in L5 but the files yet to come. If I'm not mistaken, I think Hebrew pronunciation belongs into that category.
Mick
Can anyone confirm this? If so I would cancel on the preorder of that resource. Thanks.
Come to think of it, I would like to know this as well. Will the Hebrew AND the Greek pronunciations be included in L5 at a later date?
The Hebrew audio pronunciation is not done and has never shipped in any package yet. It is still on pre-pub.
The pronunciation tools on the upgrade page is clearly marked Greek. Where do you see Hebrew pronunciation in L5?
Hi Bob;
Thanks for chiming in on this. Will the Hebrew Audio Pronunciation be included in the 1 or some of the L5 base packages once it is released?
I don't want to hijack the post, but I believe this will answer the original posters question as well.
Thanks
I noticed that in Logos 5 there's a pronunciation of the Hebrews, are they related to the resource "Hebrew Audio Pronunciations" here?Where did you see this? The pronunciation tools on the upgrade page is clearly marked Greek. Where do you see Hebrew pronunciation in L5?
"Pronunciation
Learn to pronounce biblical Hebrew or Greek with Logos 5’s pronunciation sound clips."
From http://www.logos.com/features#additional-features
Does anyone have an idea when this will come off of pre-pub?
Please see THIS thread.
There have been lots of threads asking about this (do a Google search for Hebrew Audio Pronunciation site:community.logos.com).
Bob Pritchett has weighed in a couple of times in the past year. It doesn't look like this is going to be done by the first half of 2013 as he said in the first of these posts, based on his follow-up comment this month.
Posted Nov 30 2012:
I believe the last obstacle is gone, and this product should ship in the first half of next year. (Probably closer to the end of that half.) But that's a guess, not a promise!
Posted May 9 2013:
I looked into this, and it appears we've having problems (again) with the speaker getting started. We'd sent things out, but they never came back. We're going to find someone else, which will delay us. I've 'kicked' the project again, and hopefully we'll get it going soon. I'm very sorry for the delay.
I looked into this, and it appears we've having problems (again) with the speaker getting started. We'd sent things out, but they never came back. We're going to find someone else, which will delay us.
I've 'kicked' the project again, and hopefully we'll get it going soon.
I'm very sorry for the delay.
There has been one disappointment after another on this. I ordered it way back on Feb 5, 2010, and I know there are others who have been waiting since 2007.
I really hope this can be finally finished by the end of the year!
It seems traffic on this conversation has ceased (nothing since May 2013). Is there any new update. I know we have Greek pronunciations but I still don't see Hebrew. Is there a new timeline for updating Logos 5 with Hebrew Audio Pronunciation?
Minister B
Imagine having an "American Audio Pronunciation" and having someone from Boston be the voice. Or Brooklyn. Or Minnesota. Or Acadian Louisiana. Or Vermont. Or Georgia. That's not too far from what someone trying to do a Hebrew pronunciation guide is facing. The main difference is that the Hebrew guide is far less likely to produce something that has any credibility. The main black and white part is Modern Hebrew vs. Biblical Hebrew. There is also Sephardi vs. Ashkenazi vs. Yemini vs. Babli vs. .... You get the picture. The upshot is that whatever they produce, you can guarantee one thing--it won't be right about 30-40% of the time at best. Imo, better to just forget the whole idea. Of course, since Logos can't sell "nothing", something will be made available. And immediately, thousands of Logos users will be inculcated on nonsense, convinced they are "speaking Hebrew".
Now, I've brought this up in the past, and there is inevitably someone who chimes in and says, "What does it matter how you pronounce the words?" To which I heartily reply, "PRECISELY--and especially if that is your attitude, why on earth would you want a pronunciation guide if it is meaningless in principle?" I don't think it is meaningless and pointless, but the one thing I think is a worst case scenario is filling lazy people's heads with a bunch of hullabaloo that they take to be "knowledge".
Totally disagree. One of the biggest barrier of learning Biblical language, IMO is related to pronunciation. The problem is we never learn a language silently. Especially if we want to learn a language naturally, the earlier we speak the better.
And from my point of view, how you pronounce it doesn't matter, as long as you can speak, and communicate. I personally think that reconstructing the ancient pronunciation is a waste of time, especially when people later found out modern Greek is closer to ancient Greek than the scholar's Greek in pronunciation. The point is we need to have a common pronunciation so that we can understand each other.
So it means that, an attitude of not caring what the precise pronunciation a word should have doesn't means we don't care how to pronounce it. What I am saying is that we need a common ground. We need a pronunciation, not necessarily THE pronunciation. And we need a pronunciation that is widely used enough, no matter if it is as you said 30-40% correct at best. Without this given common ground, we could be pronouncing words that 0% of other people could pronounce.
As long as what we said can be understood is ok. The logos users would understand each other, the other Hebrew speakers who knows the subtlety in the different pronunciation could understand us, probably. (Just like English native can understand poor Chinese accent.)
And to your final point, there's always people using shortcut to learn something and thought that they have mastered it. The lazy people you are talking about, or to me it is kind of arrogant. So my point is, even if the Logos' pronunciation won't appears, we won't stop them from doing it. Do you want them to preach an accent that absolutely no one is using, or at least 30-40% correct?
I have seen people pronouncing Greek in sermon treating them as English. So poorly pronounced, and many other brothers and sisters in the church copying it (thinking it is the pronunciation). Well, I know those elders in person and I don't think in that case they are arrogant, or lazy. They are just not equipped with the tools and resources for them to know how to pronounce it right (before one start to criticize if they should get formal Greek training, in China not everyone is that fortunate to have to opportunity to learn that). Do you want those less equipped keep pronouncing biblical languages in this way, or at least step it up to the pronunciation that is at least 30-40% correct?
I think my point is, before you criticizing it would never be perfect, let's start to make progress. And also, anything useless to you could be of great help to the others.
Yeah, but this won't be your panacea, I promise. You will have to jettison most of what you learn and most of what you said is needed will never have come to pass. There is a small but significant move in Greek-speaking away from Erasmian pronunciation. Erasmian is the Greek equivalent of what you say we need in Hebrew--a pronunciation that is common to all but was never spoken by any Greek speaker in history. To what? A pronunciation that has been pieced together and is now beginning to be recognized as more like true Koine. What's holding it back? The good old Erasmian "common" tongue that is utterly ahistorical. In other words, what is widely known to be false but is most common among "Biblical" Greek speakers is blocking what is considered historical but is uncommon in usage. The irony is Koine means "common" and instead of it being used by most, a make-believe version of Greek is what is most commonly taught. If you think that is desirable, by all means, learn nonsense.
By the way, prepare yourself to pronounce Hanukkah like Kanukkah or Chanukkah (that's CH like CHina)...or prepare yourself to ignore the very pronunciation rules you are learning.
I noticed that in Logos 5 there's a pronunciation of the Hebrews,
may be you could tell us how you got that so that we could see what you mean?
and with which Hebrew Bible version, do you have this particular feature?
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