FYI... when the new text editor comes out L5

Please remember that some of us still use L3 for our notes, and we will need to import them into L5. I still have to use L3 for my notes because soooooo much of my information in my notes are lost during the import process. Please allow us to keep all of the information in out notes like:

tables
display graphics from the web
do not change half of the note icon colors to yellow (if there isn't an exact match, please pick a unique color that is close to the color in L3.)
font colors/size...

thanks

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Paul Golder

And a splel chekcer [Y]

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421613#Comment_421613

It's better just to keep your notes outside Logos, and cross link into the resources where needed, honestly. We should, IMHO, stop driving Logos to be a notepad, and just use the applications out there (like OneNote and Evernote) to do the job they do best. And yes, if you want your notes synchronized to your mobile device, then these applications will do that, as well.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421687#Comment_421687

That makes sense, let me see:

Working in Logos, want to make a note
Open up an entirely different application with a completely different interface
While I'm at my computer desktop better check my email
And Twitter
All these facebook notifications need to be taken care of
Back in the note taker, better check my to do list
And add a few things to my grocery list
New email again
Someone's calling on Skype
Email
Now where was I...

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421716#Comment_421716

Nice snark...But it's not really my problem if you don't have self control, or can't organize your desktop so you have a notes application and Logos open at the same time. Rather than being snarky, consider the problems Logos might have with storing images from millions of users, including the bandwidth and other issues that go with pushing them around. None of these problems are easy to solve --but note-taking software packages have already solved them for a larger set of problems.

In the meantime, you should actually try it. You might find that notes applications, like OneNote, are a much better way to collate information from a lot of different sources, etc.I use OneNote for just about everything, because I can:

1. Fine tune whether is information stored locally verses in the cloud.

2. Directly interact with Word, PowerPoint, Acrobat, etc.

3. Link into and out of Logos (though these linkages could be better --but I've already asked for those features).

4. Control my own disc usage.

5. Have the notes I choose to have available on all devices on all those devices, and I don't have to open Logos to find them all the time.

So snark away, but you're missing a great deal of flexibility and capabilities by ignoring the possibilities.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421727#Comment_421727

Nice snark...

Thank-You [Y]

In the meantime, you should actually try it.

I have, but even taking in to consideration all the positive points you made, it still leaves out the issue I was attempting to allude to, namely simplicity. Not just simplicity in itself, but the simplicity that comes from the synergy of work flow within the same program.

From a physiological and spiritual point of view, the flow that could be obtained by having all the necessary research tools (including the documenting of and access to said research) within Logos itself would be invaluable.

EDIT: My main point is that Bible study increases in benefits when it is aided by a well made Bible study tool, including the editor.

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421738#Comment_421738

From a physiological and spiritual point of view, the flow that could be obtained by having all the necessary research tools (including the documenting of and access to said research) within Logos itself would be invaluable.

Why not add word processing tools, as well, since that would clearly put the entire process of building a research paper entirely into one software package?

I don't find switching programs to "interrupt" my flow --in fact, one of the advantages of personal computers is the ability to have multiple applications, each of which does one thing really well, and carry information between them as needed.

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421742#Comment_421742

Why not add word processing tools, as well,

Can we get a coffee maker while we're at it?

[;)]

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421742#Comment_421742

Why not add word processing tools, as well, since that would clearly put the entire process of building a research paper entirely into one software package?

My dream...

I don't find switching programs to "interrupt" my flow

Understandable, but this isn't true for everyone.

one of the advantages of personal computers is the ability to have multiple applications

Some would say that working across multiple applications at the same time decreases efficiency and productivity. At least when one is trying to reach a unique goal, as in a better understanding of God and His Word.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421752#Comment_421752

Can we get a coffee maker while we're at it?

At the rate I go through coffee makers, I would go broke. [:P]

Joshua Coady

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421755#Comment_421755

Notes (and highlights) directly in Logos is a must for me -- having to go outside the program to create or find them entirely defeats their purpose in existing. That being said, it is my understanding that notes in Logos are intended to be margin notes, the sort of stuff you'd write in the margins of a paper Bible during a sermon or while studying.

Even so, it can be frustrating when something used to work one way and now it doesnt--I can certainly empathize with that. All I can say about that is maybe someday it will work as you want, if not your choices are to adapt to how it does work or move on. For me, the question would come down to, does Logos (the program and the company) do enough of what I need well enough to make adapting worth it?

As for what it costs to host and store everyone's notes, there are nice ways to pass those costs off to the customer. The tool I use to manage my finances, YNAB, syncs your data to all instances of their app you have installed much like Logos does. They have chosen to do this primarily via DropBox. There are pros and cons to that choice, but one pro is that they dont need to pay for cloud storage for all of their customers and for most customers DropBox provides enough free storage that the customers dont need to pay for it either (and those that wish to store copious amounts of data in the app can choose to do so, with a reasonable fee to DropBox to support their higher usage levels). This allows the YNAB folks to focus on their core product rather also having to spend energy on everything involved in managing a cloud storage system.

John Kaess

I really hate to ask a stupid question but here goes:

I use Evernote for everything. All my sermon and teaching note prep goes into Evernote. However, I do not know of a way to tie my notes in Evernote to a text or passage in Logos. How is that done? I am currently using Logos 5.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421687#Comment_421687

It's better just to keep your notes outside Logos, and cross link into the resources where needed

Russ, I have read every post in this thread prior to writing this. What you advocate will work very well for Windows users with one Logos installation. However, I have Logos on 3 different machines—a desktop Mac (my main system), a Mac Book Pro, and (don't tell the other MVPs) even a Windows laptop. How would your system keep all those together. If the file is stored on my desktop, and I am on the road with my laptop, where are my notes?

Nord Zootman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421863#Comment_421863

I don't know about Mac. On Windows OneNote syncs quite well.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421870#Comment_421870

I don't know about Mac. On Windows OneNote syncs quite well.

Interesting. I have a Dropbox subscription. Perhaps I will try something with one of my note-taking apps.

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421914#Comment_421914

1. OneNote has Windows, Windows Phone, iPhone, and iPad applications/apps. There is also a web interface (via Office Live) that you can use from the Mac (with some limitations). Anything you put on you SkyDrive is synchronized to any device you open it on. I have had problems with opening a single page in OneNote on multiple devices (particularly when you get into airplane mode situations), and things developing conflicts, but generally speaking this all works well. I have hundreds of pages of notes in OneNote, everything from information about my house (window sizes, things like that) to book by book notes from the Scriptures to actual sets of quotes from books I've read over the years to maps, images, and the like. Each notebook can be stored on the SkyDrive or on a local drive (or even DtopBox, though synch might be more challenging there), and you encrypt notebooks as well.

2. Evernote has clients for Windows, iPhone, Android, Mac, and iPad. I don't know much about it other than that (I don't use Evernote because when I last looked they don't have links to pages, and they have limited levels in the "outline" system overall, where OneNote has virtually unlimited levels of organization).

3. If you want to know how to cross link, I've captured the entire process here:

http://thinkinginchrist.com/linking-to-logos-4/

The features I've asked for to make this entire process simpler are:

- A link to the resource as a default citation type (which would be useful for a lot of things)

- If a note only has a URL in it, follow the URL rather than opening the note

4. Of course you can't search your notes within Logos, which is the biggest drawback --but OneNote and Evernote both have excellent search capabilities, so I just search in both places when I search, or look through my material manually if what I'm looking for meets my organization.

5. I normally keep OneNote and Logos open all the time on my desktop. On a big monitor, I keep them open side by side on the same desktop, on a smaller monitor on the same desktop both maximized so I can alt-tab between them.

HTH...

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421940#Comment_421940

Of course you can't search your notes within Logos, which is the biggest drawback

And this is why I keep my notes in L3/L4.

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421955#Comment_421955

And this is why I keep my notes in L3/L4.

First: That's fine --but I would say that users who keep their notes in L3/L4/L5 for this reason need to understand and accept the limitations on notes within the software for the long term. In other words, the tradeoff is to have a rich notes environment (which you can search!) today, or keep asking Logos for all the features these external pieces of software already have.

Second: That's fine --but I would point out that by doing this, you are fragmenting your life into different pieces for the different sorts of things you do. I find the ability to search and manage anything in my life from one place (OneNote) much more valuable than searching my notes within Logos itself. Searching in a second place is a quick copy and paste. Trying to find something I jotted down someplace when I'm splitting my notes across a dozen pieces of software is actually much harder.

Third: When you put your notes in Logos, you are committing yourself to Logos for Bible study software no matter what happens in the future. If another professional strength notes software package becomes available, they're likely to build import/export functions from either OneNote or Evernote, because these are huge, widespread communities. They're not going to build such a filter for Logos. I once kept my notes in a loose leaf Bible. When that Bible was lost, I lost years of effort with it. I value information portability.

Sometimes you have to trade one level of convenience for another --you really can't always have your cake and eat it to.

Joshua Coady

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421914#Comment_421914

I don't know about Mac. On Windows OneNote syncs quite well.

Interesting. I have a Dropbox subscription. Perhaps I will try something with one of my note-taking apps.

It could be as easy as just saving to and opening from your Dropbox folder instead of your Documents folder (or whatever you currently use). A lot of stuff works pretty well that way.