Need Help Sorting out Good Arminian & Calvinist Resources
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Rick Ausdahl said:
Do you think I have any authors or publishers in the wrong category?
Norman Geisler would definitely object to being called Arminian. He calls himself a modified Calvinist and insists that he is close to Calvin than most who call themselves Calvinists today. Unfortunately, it is not in Logos, but his Chosen, but Free argues this position.
Paige Patterson may be in the same category, but I don't know that for certain.
Rick Ausdahl said:more appropriate to have titled this topic something along the lines of Reformed & Non-Reformed resources
That wold likely be better, but there are varying degrees of Non-Reformed theology. That would likely be a difficult task sorting those.
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Jack Caviness said:Rick Ausdahl said:
Do you think I have any authors or publishers in the wrong category?
Norman Geisler would definitely object to being called Arminian. He calls himself a modified Calvinist and insists that he is close to Calvin than most who call themselves Calvinists today. Unfortunately, it is not in Logos, but his Chosen, but Free argues this position.
Paige Patterson may be in the same category, but I don't know that for certain.
Rick Ausdahl said:more appropriate to have titled this topic something along the lines of Reformed & Non-Reformed resources
That wold likely be better, but there are varying degrees of Non-Reformed theology. That would likely be a difficult task sorting those.
Thanks, Jack!
When I started this thread in 2012, I was just getting my feet wet (actually just my toes) in the Arminian/Calvinist debate and was struggling not only to understand the Biblical and Philosophical bases/reasons for each view, I was also trying to get a handle on to which camp various authors and publishers belonged. I had just heard Norman Geisler for the first time--his topic was "Why I'm not a five-point Calvinist", and much of what he said struck me as very Arminian in tone/content. But it seems I incorrectly understood that if he wasn't a five-point Calvinist that he simply wasn't a Calvinist. [:$]
I don't recall exactly how I came to place Paige Patterson, but I "think" it was based on some things he had written/said that sounded very Arminian in tone. I did just recently watch a very cordial discussion between Paige and Roger Olson though, and I now realize that while Paige and Roger agreed on many points, and while Roger jokingly told Paige he thought Paige was an Arminian but just didn't realize it, I think Paige would prefer to see his name included in the Calvinist camp. [;)]
Bottom line--I'll move both Norman and Paige to the list of Calvinist authors/theologians. [:)]
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A history professor and friend of Patterson told me Patterson is Amyraldian. IE 4 points.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Rick Ausdahl said:
Bottom line--I'll move both Norman and Paige to the list of Calvinist authors/theologians.
Not sure that they would really fit in either camp. Geisler, like myself, could best be described as a 2-1/2 point Calvinist [:D]
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Guess I'd best think about starting a third category along the lines of "Amyraldians and 2 1/2 Point Calvinists". [:D]
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This is an updated list of authors and publishers.
Please note I am not personally familiar with every author and publisher. Many of these entries are based on input from other forum members or from things I've read. Based on input from forum members, I moved Norman Geisler and Paige Patterson from the Arminian list to the Calvinist list and added a note after their names. If you feel there are errors in the list, feel free to comment.
Arminian Authors
- Dr. Bill Arnold
- Garett Lee Cockerill
- Jack Cottrell
- Maxie Dunnam
- Leroy Forlines
- John Miley
- Thomas Oden
- Roger Olson
- John Oswalt
- Robert E. Picirilli
- William Burt Pope
- A. W. Tozer
- Richard Watson
- John Wesley
- Henry Orton Wiley
- Dr. Ben Witherington
Arminian Publishers
- Abingdon Press
- College Press
- Gospel Publishing House
- Nazarene Publishing House
- Randall House
- Wesleyan Press
Arminian Leaning Publishers
- Broadman & Holman
Calvinist Authors
- Archibald Alexander
- James Montgomery Boice
- John Bunyan
- Sung Wook Chung
- R. Scott Clarke
- Mark Driscoll
- Jonathan Edwards
- Norman Geisler (But not a Five-Pointer)
- John Gill
- Wayne Grudem
- Charles Hodge
- Michael Horton
- Gary Johnson
- Alan Mabin (Maybin?)
- John MacArthur
- Albert Mohler
- Douglas J. Moo
- Richard A. Muller
- Paige Patterson (But not a Five-Pointer)
- A.W. Pink
- John Piper
- Rick Ritchie
- Kim Riddlebarger
- Phil Schaffs
- R.C. Sproul
- Charles Spurgeon
- B.B. Warfield
Calvinist Publishers
- Banner of Truth
- Crossbooks
- Naphtali Press
- Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing
- Reformation Heritage
- Reformation Trust
- Sovereign Grace Christian Books
Calvinist Leaning Publishers
- Baker Publishing Group
- Christian Focus Publications
- Good News Publisher/Crossway Books
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Rick Ausdahl said:
- Norma Geisler (But not a Five-Pointer)
Hi Rick,
I don't want to discourage you from compiling your list, as it may be helpful to many.
But ...
In addition to pointing out the spelling error of the first name, it is also fairly certain
that Geisler defines himself as a 5 (not 4) point Calvinist in "Chosen but free".
The dispute of many (James White, Potters Freedom) is that Geisler does not
follow their particular interpretation of the 5 points, but interprets them closer to
what John Calvin himself had believed.
In CBF, Geisler distinguished between "moderate" and "extreme" Calvinism,
and placed himself into the "moderate" camp.
Not sure how you can make everyone happy and still be accurate. I personally
have always felt that both Calvinism and Arminianism are a sort of theological
false dichotomy. You are expected to choose one or the other, although both
clearly contain elements of both truth and error. Short of having two Calvinist
groupings, I am not sure how I would handle this.
John
Wikipedia said:
Geisler considers himself a “moderate Calvinist," as expressed in his book Chosen but Free (Harvest House, 2001) and Systematic Theology, in One Volume (Harvest House, 2012). On the Five Points of Calvinism, he believes (1) Total depravity extends to the whole person but does not destroy the image of God in fallen human beings; (2) Election is unconditional from the standpoint of God’s giving it and only one condition for human’s receiving it—faith; (3) Election is unlimited in its scope—Christ died for all mankind—but limited in its application to only the elect; (4) Grace is irresistible on the willing but does not force the unwilling; (5) All those who are regenerate will, by God’s grace, persevere to the end and be saved.
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Thanks, John. I rather doubt Norman would like to be introduced as Ms. Geisler, so the spelling has been corrected. [:)]John said:Rick Ausdahl said:- Norma Geisler (But not a Five-Pointer)
Hi Rick,
I don't want to discourage you from compiling your list, as it may be helpful to many.
But ...
In addition to pointing out the spelling error of the first name, it is also fairly certain
that Geisler defines himself as a 5 (not 4) point Calvinist in "Chosen but free".
The dispute of many (James White, Potters Freedom) is that Geisler does not
follow their particular interpretation of the 5 points, but interprets them closer to
what John Calvin himself had believed.
In CBF, Geisler distinguished between "moderate" and "extreme" Calvinism,
and placed himself into the "moderate" camp.
Not sure how you can make everyone happy and still be accurate. I personally
have always felt that both Calvinism and Arminianism are a sort of theological
false dichotomy. You are expected to choose one or the other, although both
clearly contain elements of both truth and error. Short of having two Calvinist
groupings, I am not sure how I would handle this.
John
Wikipedia said:
Geisler considers himself a “moderate Calvinist," as expressed in his book Chosen but Free (Harvest House, 2001) and Systematic Theology, in One Volume (Harvest House, 2012). On the Five Points of Calvinism, he believes (1) Total depravity extends to the whole person but does not destroy the image of God in fallen human beings; (2) Election is unconditional from the standpoint of God’s giving it and only one condition for human’s receiving it—faith; (3) Election is unlimited in its scope—Christ died for all mankind—but limited in its application to only the elect; (4) Grace is irresistible on the willing but does not force the unwilling; (5) All those who are regenerate will, by God’s grace, persevere to the end and be saved.
Regarding Norman's position, I think I'll hold off on changing my note for the time-being, as my reason for seeing him as not being a five-point Calvinist is a message/lecture he gave titled "Five Reasons why I am not a Five-Point Calvinist".
In regard to making everyone happy, I never deluded myself insofar as thinking that possible, although it is my desire to be avoid offending anyone if possible. [A] And as long as forum members stick to the purpose of this thread, which is simply to help categorize authors and publishers--NOT to discuss the merits of any theological positions--I think we'll all be in a good position to avoid hurting anyone's feelings.
However ... if I'm mistaken, and any attempts to refine where on the spectrums of Arminianism or Calivinism an author falls, I'll just remove any/all such fine-tunings and hope that at least there will be a consensus as to which main camp an author is most closely aligned. [;)]
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Rick Ausdahl said:
Regarding Norman's position, I think I'll hold off on changing my note for the time-being, as my reason for seeing him as not being a five-point Calvinist is a message/lecture he gave titled "Five Reasons why I am not a Five-Point Calvinist".
Thats interesting. I did a search on google and sure enough, you are correct, Geisler did give a lecture back in 2009 with that title.
I do not know whether this represents a change in his view or not. I suppose it is possible.
Nevertheless, the statement "Five Reasons why I am not a Five-Point Calvinist" is not an admission to being a 4 point Calvinist.
And since your list is regarding categorization of printed works, not lectures, it is very clear that Geislers printed works state that
he is a moderate Calvinist, not a 4 point Calvinist. (including his theology, published in 2012).
John [:)]
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Hi again, John!
A quick note regarding the part of your post that says "...since your list is regarding categorization of printed works, not lectures...". It's not actually about printed works, it's about the views/theological positions of the people producing the works, whether the works are printed texts, digital texts, lectures, sermons, interviews, etc.. The same holds true of publishers, in the sense that it's the people managing the publication firms who decide goals, objectives, mission statements, etc., and who decide which works will be published and in which formats--e.g. printed text, digital text, audio-visual, or whatever technology brings us next--perhaps holographic text so we can truly immerse ourselves in the authors thoughts. [;)]
Regarding Geisler, I agree with your statement that his lecture on ""Five Reasons why I am not a Five-Point Calvinist" is not an admission to being a 4 point Calvinist." But please note I did not say he is a 4 point Calvinist, only that based on his presentation, he himself states he is not a 5 point Calvinist.
I am less sure about Paige Patterson. I tried to edit my post to end the note for him with a question mark, but it's too late to do that. Perhaps in a future update.
Sorry for the confusion. [:S]
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Hi there Rick. I just perused through this thread 6 years later, and was just curious where all of this research eventually led you? Perhaps you mentioned it already and I missed it, but do you feel like you've landed solidly anywhere on the Calvinist-Arminian spectrum?
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Hi Kam! I do feel I've landed solidly in one of the camps, although I hope to always be willing to listen to any new thoughts/perspectives about it. But... as we're supposed to avoid theological debates on this forum, I won't say exactly where I've landed. [:#]
What I will say though, is that searching the scripture and sincerely considering the views of those in both camps has left me far more informed and with a greater sense of assurance in my convictions/beliefs than I had in the past, while at the same time teaching me to appreciate my brothers and sisters on both sides of the aisle.
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Some of your "Arminians" are actually Provisionists, like Paige Patterson or simply Non-Calvinist like Norman Geisler.
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This was such a great thread to discover resources on this subject. It has been very helpful to me. Thanks to all who contributed.
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