Still no Search with Hebrew Vowel Pointing??

I am very disappointed that Logos 5 still does not support searching with Hebrew Vowel Pointing. That was a very useful feature of Logos 3, but didn't get into Logos 4. I feel like Logos 5 came out before Logos 4 was ever completed. Searching for manuscript forms in the Hebrew Scriptures seems like one of the most basic tools that would be expected with the most expensive Bible software on the market.

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MJ. Smith

can't a morph search give you the same thing as a manuscript search ... or do you want all the homographs?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I am very disappointed that Logos 5 still does not support searching with Hebrew Vowel Pointing.

Appears Logos Hebrew Morphology can distinguish vowel points in a lemma search. For search terms on left, began with h:bere

Looking at manuscript search results, noticed two verses in the lemma results: Gen 31:44 and Exod 2:24 were not found looking for manuscript form from Gen 6:18 that includes a Yod.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Wyn Laidig

I don't want to search for a lemma. I want to search for a manuscript form. For example, in the morph search below, I type in what to find, and I end up with search results that return every vowel combination instead of the one I type in. In Logos 3 you could search with the marks() parameter and it would return exactly the vowel pointing you entered.

Wyn Laidig

Somehow I lost the example image I had pasted in. I will try again here:

MJ. Smith

Okay - I was thinking:

but I see even that picks up affixes as well. My apologies for starting you down a false path.

Mark Barnes

Somehow I lost the example image I had pasted in. I will try again here:

I know it's not ideal, but you can do an analysis search, and group by result.

George Somsel

You have made matters somewhat confusing by choosing to search for something which could be a number of different things.

A preposition with an object marker
A numeral (hundred)
A verb (מות)

The screenshot you attached seems to indicate that you wanted the numeral – or was it? Assuming that you wanted the adj number "hundred" and don't want pronominal suffixes, you might try the following. It still gives both plene and defective spellings.

BKMitchell

I am very disappointed that Logos 5 still does not support searching with Hebrew Vowel Pointing.

Actually, Logos5 can search on a specific word with a specific (nekudot) vowel point patterns like this:

For example say you want to Find every instance of the lexeme אֱלוֹהַּ (eloah – God) that is spelled ‘defectively’ (with just a holem, not a holem-waw) in Logos5 you could do so by:

1.Selecting the Bible search (or the Morph search) and the BHS

2. then in the search bar type in (אֱלוֹהַּ) or anything else you want with the parenthesis or without them then, search

3. I got 40 results in .11 sec

4. That should be what you are looking for but it will ignore accents.

(on the other hand if you type in lemma:אֱלוֹהַּ you will pick up more forms and thus you will get 58 hits.)

Or, you can also do searches this way:

1.Select Bible Search

2. Select the BHS with Westminster 4.2 Morphology

3. On the command line or search bar type in the unicode codes for the vowel points like this:

(/.*.[\u05b1\u05b2\u05b3].[\u05b7\u05b8].[\u05b7\u05b8].*/)

4. It should yield you, 859 hits

It would appear that just about everything on this page http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/HebrewRegularExpressions will work in the Bible search, you no longer need to type in the 'marks' command or a lemma command, in fact don't do that.

You can even search for accents, too if you know their unicode values.

Albert Chu

Thanks for the supplement. So at least if I am desperate, I could go and search the unicode out to do the search. But still it is too troublesome. One does not expect you need Unicode knowledge in additional to original language to execute a proper search in such an expensive application.

Maybe

what I expect is at least some proper reply from the company to let us know how such issues will be handled in future development.[^o)]

Wyn Laidig

Actually, Logos5 can search on a specific word with a specific (nekudot) vowel point patterns like this:

For example say you want to Find every instance of the lexeme אֱלוֹהַּ (eloah – God) that is spelled ‘defectively’ (with just a holem, not a holem-waw) in Logos5 you could do so by:

1.Selecting the Bible search (or the Morph search) and the BHS

2. then in the search bar type in (אֱלוֹהַּ) or anything else you want with the parenthesis or without them then, search

I am not able to get this to work. I select BHS and enter my Hebrew form and search, and I still get all vowel combinations:

BKMitchell

Okay, I guess only the Bible Search and not the morph search works for this.

I got 98 verses and 107 hits in Logos5 (and in an alternative program I get 95 verses and 100 hits).

Now, if I apply this to מֵאֵ֣ת I get 118 verses and 114 hits.

Wyn Laidig

I guess only the Bible Search and not the morph search works for this.

This really does not work either. If you scroll down the list you will see other verb combinations are included:

I ran my previous example in BIble search instead of Morph search and got the exact same thing as before. I just dont think searching with vowel pointing works at all in Logos 5, unless you do the morph search with all the parts of speech selected (which is really not the same, since people have made decisions about parts of speech which may or not be accurate.... I want to see ALL the forms that are exactly the same in context and make my own decisions). I can see that your suggestion about unicode can work, but that is very awkward. Logos really needs to address this problem soon.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I want to search for a manuscript form. For example, in the morph search below, I type in what to find, and I end up with search results that return every vowel combination instead of the one I type in. In Logos 3 you could search with the marks() parameter and it would return exactly the vowel pointing you entered.

Logos 5.2 Beta 1 has search modifiers => http://wiki.logos.com/Search_Matching_Commands

Keep Smiling [:)]

BKMitchell

Logos 5.2 Beta 1 has search modifiers => http://wiki.logos.com/Search_Matching_Commands

Thanks for the heads up on this one! This is step in the right direction, indeed.

Now, I can't tell form the link if these matching commands will allow one to search on accents(and vowels) with wild cards in place of the consonants. So, for example one could search on vowel patters without specifying any particular word. And, if one could search on accents combinations without regard to the words with they fall on. So, If I wanted to find every verse were a Zarka accent mark is preceded by a Munach accent mark could it be down with the new matching commands and if so how?

David Roberts

can't a morph search give you the same thing as a manuscript search ... or do you want all the homographs?

I just want to say that while obviously the main use of the Hebrew Bible is to understand the Biblical text, there are a LOT of us Hebrew teachers (and even students) around the world who want to be able to search for linguistic features to help better illiterate them to our students.

Features like:

Searching for words that have the same vowel combinations, but different consonants. אָשִׁירָה and אָעִירָה (Psalm 108:2–3)
Searching for specific consonant-vowel (or vowel-consonant) combinations which could appear anywhere within a given word. e.g. י ֶ
Every time he mappiq appears.
Every time ḥolam ḥaser appears.
Every time a particular letter of the Hebrew alphabet occurs at the beginning, middle or end of a word. e.g. ט or צ.
Every time א comes after a consonant, but not a vowel. e.g. מַלְאַךְ (Mal'akh)

MJ. Smith

Makes perfect sense to me. There has also been a recent plea for a string search that ignores word boundaries.