See http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_5$3a_Bible_Sense_Lexicon
I've included some screen prints off the web to give English examples rather than assuming the reader will follow the reading suggestions. I have mixed feelings about this and am interested in feedback.
I've included some screen prints off the web to give English examples rather than assuming the reader will follow the reading suggestions.
"Communication" in the BSL is more self-explanatory than the web examples which require a different conceptual grasp (Wordnet is the worst because of the text style). The reading examples are great for learning Wordnet but hardly pertinent to understanding BSL.
The reading examples are great for learning Wordnet but hardly pertinent to understanding BSL.
This is a useful piece of information - I have clearly failed to show how the BSL is derived directly from WordNet - down to the definitions of concepts being identical. The BSL essentially just adds Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic words to WordNet. I've made revisions which I hope will help.
Thanks MJ. I think it is extremely interesting to know that the BSL is derived from WordNet. Thanks for including that in the Wiki.
The reading examples are great for learning Wordnet but hardly pertinent to understanding BSL. This is a useful piece of information - I have clearly failed to show how the BSL is derived directly from WordNet - down to the definitions of concepts being identical. The BSL essentially just adds Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic words to WordNet. I've made revisions which I hope will help.
Why is this so important when the aim is to promote understanding of BSL? You are effectively advertising other products when a one line reference is all that is needed e.g it is advertised in Concepts and Terminology and again (more seriously) in FAQ.:-
Question: What is the relationship between the Bible Sense Lexicon and WordNet from Princeton University?Answer: The Bible Sense Lexicon is built upon WordNet from Princeton University. Looking a word up in WordNet will often help a beginner understand the Logos multilingual version. Note that the current Logos database (2012) only includes nouns.
The Q presumes a relationship, when it should be "Is BSL related to Wordnet?" The answer contains a statement that the BSL "only includes nouns", which would be more useful/pertinent to know in What is the BSL?
The first section asks What is the BSL? The answer is two paragraphs about "Exploring", a caveat and a couple of notes but no illustrations.
Why is this so important when the aim is to promote understanding of BSL?
Because the BSL IS WordNet. It is critical to understand that the BSL is NOT a standard semantic web. If it were, one would see individual nets for Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek; the concepts would be the concepts of the original language at the time that the Scriptures were written. If one does not understand that Logos appended the original language sense/lemmas onto a contemporary English net, the hierarchy, sense divisions and groupings make no sense.
WordNet is not a product in the normal sense. It is a research database representing more than 20 years of research. It is the data behind a number of applications; it is a standard for testing and training natural language processing algorithms. I'm simply trying to put forth the explanation of the BSL that Logos' employees set forth.
I clearly have still not quite communicated what I need to communicate in the wiki - on the other hand, the wiki is not the place to explain the shift in thinking of what constitutes dictionaries and thesauruses etc. The semantic basis of the Louw-Nida numbers represents another example of the fundamental shift.
BSL needs to be understood for what it is, rather then what it is not (most users would not have expectations built around a 'standard' semantic web). The emphasis on "not" is producing a tutorial in another product. Acknowledge what needs to be acknowledged but provide a Guide for the BSL
I understand your point Dave but what MJ is explaining is important to at least me personally. I'm glad she did. Its very helpful to know that the lemmas are appended onto a contemporary English net as opposed to individual nets for Hebrew and Greek. I unfortunately see people misusing the BSL and committing exegetical fallacies if they don't understand this. It is a mistake to suppose that Greek is really just another form of English. BTW, that is a huge problem with another tool in Logos -- the interlinear. IMHO, interlinears are bad. Reverse interlinears are worse.
The Q presumes a relationship,
Modified.
The first section asks What is the BSL?
Concerns justified - the primary material originally here has been moved in response to your original concerns. Given the nature of this tool, how to best describe it to people not familiar with computational linguistics is a bit of a challenge - necessary challenge but still a challenge. I'm keeping the forum questions such as "how do I use this in building a sermon" in mind as a way to judge the drafts.
BSL needs to be understood for what it is,
I agree but BSL has no cogent structure other than the structure provided by WordNet. I can't see a way to explain what it is without first explaining what WordNet is. It feels like I'm trying to explain algebra with no reference to arithmetic or imaginary numbers.
(most users would not have expectations built around a 'standard' semantic web)
This is true. However, a number of the younger users, linguists and computer nerds will. I need to meet their needs as well.
provide a Guide for the BSL
Are there specific issues relating to the BSL that you think I've omitted or glossed over? I certainly want the reader of the wiki page to have gotten all the information they expected.
I've tried to moderate the WordNet aspect by the addition of Louw Nida. I think this modification to context should help address some of your concerns.
Let me illustrate the flow (slightly dramatised):-
1. What is the BSL
It is a dictionary of concepts that lets you explore the meaning of bible words which are grouped by their meanings in the Original Languages, complementing the Definition/Lemma sections of BWS. But the Exegetical Guide may be a better tool for a (bible) word in its context.
2. Concepts and Terminology
Vocab from WordNet --> link to What is Wordnet because this is related to BSL
Vocab from Logos and others
Logos Reading List
3. How do I open Bible Word Study
4. How do I specify the Parameters of my Study
Type a concept name in to the box and then Navigate.
5. What Info does the BSL give me?
Ahhh, yes, I was wondering what this tool gave me that was different to Wordnet.
1. It appears that I'm studying Concepts and not bible words
4. the Concept under study is defined
5. a list of original language words = bible words?
7 & 8 a hierarchy of concepts and their relationships
Now why didn't Martha put this section at the beginning when i could have grasped what BSL was all about without the distraction of Wordnet!
Now what does concepts mean again - is it somewhere in the Wikipedia Definitions page?
Definitely a typo here.[:D]
link to Semantics in AYBD which wasn't foundlink to Semantic Fallacies which wasn't found
I'll check the links - I'd swear I'd selected wiki format from the panel menu ... either a user error or bug.
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Okay, I think I've got it right. Thanks for keeping pushing.
As a brief reply to this thread, while English WordNet has provided theoretical foundations for Bible Sense Lexicon, where we believed the Hebrew and/or Greek hierarchy to be different we have not followed English WordNet (the same is true of definitions). Probably the best place to see this is in the case of the animal hierarchy, though there are a good number of other examples. English WordNet's hierarchy is thoroughly biological. Since we didn't think this fit the linguistic categories of an ancient speaker of Hebrew and/or Greek, we built our a hierarchy based on what we believed to be categories found in the texts of the Old and New Testament. So, while there is a relationship between BSL and WordNet, it is not entirely accurate to say that BSL is WordNet.
Thanks - I'll make sure that is noted.
A couple more relevant points about BSL and its relationship to WordNet (or not):
I'd say WordNet provides important background information for understanding BSL, but they're distinct in their scope and purposes.
I also think it's worth including in the wiki that you can see the senses in the interlinear ribbon: that may be easier for some folks than the Exegetical Guide.
I'd say WordNet provides important background information for understanding BSL, but they're distinct in their scope and purposes. I also think it's worth including in the wiki that you can see the senses in the interlinear ribbon: that may be easier for some folks than the Exegetical Guide.
Thanks Sean and Jeremy.
It's certainly important to acknowledge the contribution of WordNet to BSL.
I've now included this - as I rarely use interlinears, I'd not found this feature. What I'm really looking forward to is the search on the BSL.
I think I've got things appropriately qualified now - but feel free to continue to clarify and make suggestions so that Logos users learn to use this powerful tool (correctly, even[;)]).
Martha
Finally got got around to doing another review, and it is much better.
Thanks Dave
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