Logos 5 and Windows XP

Hi,

I have purchased and successfully installed a Logos 5 minimal crossgrade on my Windows 7 home machine. I also have Logos installations on our church's desktop and my personal laptop, both of which are Windows XP setups. I know that Logos 5 does not run on XP, so what will happen the next time I open Logos 4 on either the church desktop or my laptop? Will Logos still download the 570+ MB update, then stop at the beginning of the installation process when it notices the XP environment, or will the download not even begin because of the OS, or perhaps will the new resources provided by the crossgrade download, but not the main application?

If I can forgo an unnecessary 500+ MB download, I'd like to.

Be blessed,

Bill

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Rich DeRuiter

Hi,

I have purchased and successfully installed a Logos 5 minimal crossgrade on my Windows 7 home machine. I also have Logos installations on our church's desktop and my personal laptop, both of which are Windows XP setups. I know that Logos 5 does not run on XP, so what will happen the next time I open Logos 4 on either the church desktop or my laptop? Will Logos still download the 570+ MB update, then stop at the beginning of the installation process when it notices the XP environment, or will the download not even begin because of the OS, or perhaps will the new resources provided by the crossgrade download, but not the main application?

If I can forgo an unnecessary 500+ MB download, I'd like to.

Be blessed,

Bill

Logos will not install Logos5 on XP, the installation procedures are smart enough to prevent that. However, it will download all your resources that are compatible with Logos4. This won't include the new datasets that are unique to Logos5 (I think), but will include any new books you purchased. You may want to start Logos on your church desktop before you get your coffee and check your messages, and update your laptop while watching Hogan's Heroes reruns at home.

NOTE: You can update your laptop at home watching football too. Maybe even basketball, but I'm not sure that works outside of the state of Indiana. [;)]

Bill Coley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441620#Comment_441620

...update your laptop while watching Hogan's Heroes reruns at home.

In my world, Richard, there are few more satisfying uses of free time than HH reruns. Thanks for the memories! I might just take out some of my DVD boxed sets.

(Oh, and thanks for the information about the Logos 5 installation process, too.)

Bill

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441627#Comment_441627

...update your laptop while watching Hogan's Heroes reruns at home.

In my world, Richard, there are few more satisfying uses of free time than HH reruns. Thanks for the memories! I might just take out some of my DVD boxed sets.

(Oh, and thanks for the information about the Logos 5 installation process, too.)

Bill

HH comes on here at 6pm on MeTV. I won't say I'm religious about it, but . . .

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441620#Comment_441620

Maybe even basketball, but I'm not sure that works outside of the state of Indiana.

Will also work in Durham and Chapel Hill, NC. Rather spotty in Raleigh (NC State) and Winston-Salem (Wake Forest) [:D]

8v8v8v8888c8cc7cgc7f

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441655#Comment_441655

Jack,

You are certainly RIGHT about that!

Diana Hermann

Hi,

I'm confused, you sate that Logos 5 will not run on XP. This is not stated anywhere that I have found. When I look at the minimum requirements it says Vista SP2. I have XP SP3 and otherwise the probably the minimal requirements (2 GB RAM, etc.) Does this mean I cannot even do the minimal cross grade to get the Logos 5 features? I have not taken the plunge yet because it will cost me $160 for the minimal cross grade which seems pretty high to me. And I definitely don't want to invest that money if it is not going to work or have lots of problems as I seem to be reading about on these forums.

Can you tell me where it is stated that Logos 5 will not run on Windows XP?

Thanks

Diana

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441941#Comment_441941

Can you tell me where it is stated that Logos 5 will not run on Windows XP?

Dear Diana:

This is a "Windows" issue.

Please do not spend money to upgrade Logos 4 to Logos 5 if your operating system is Windows XP.

XP has been for many, a wonderful operating system.

But L5 needs .Net 4.5 installed to run

M$ [has not / did not] make XP compatible with .Net 4.5.

[This information is here on these Forums, but I've not taken time to seavch for it -- BUT -- I do not know where the info is on the other Logos sites, sorry.]

All the best

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441941#Comment_441941

When I look at the minimum requirements it says Vista SP2. I have XP SP3

Hi Diana, just to let you know, Vista SP2 is a higher operating system than XP3. I am not saying that it is a better OS, just that it is a higher OS.

SP is how many major upgrades the OS has undergone. For your XP computer, the OS has undergone three major upgrades (Service Packs), and the OS that is needed to run .NET 4.5 is Vista that has undergone two major upgrades (Service Packs).

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441958#Comment_441958

Diana poses an interesting point. But after searching for only 20 minutes, I DID find a page: http://www.logos.com/installation Read carefully.

I don't see why this should be a complaint. It's pretty routine for potential purchasers to search a software site for any hints of limitations. Plus surveys show that 20-30 minutes is the norm. So Logos communication, as usual seems up to its normal snuff.

Diana, I'm joking ... you're correct.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441941#Comment_441941

Can you tell me where it is stated that Logos 5 will not run on Windows XP?

Logos Support for Windows has a technical FAQ => http://www.logos.com/support/tech-faq with Vista being the minimum Windows version for Logos 5.

On 26 Aug 2012, Bob Pritchett, Logos CEO, posted => Advance Notice: Logos Ending Windows XP Support October 26, 2012 that includes rationale since Microsoft has chosen not to support .NET Framework 4.5 on Windows XP.

Older thread => Logos 4 Font Anti-Aliasing Subpar includes links to three technical issues in .NET Framework 4 that precluded use for Logos and were not fixed by Microsoft.

Logos 4 uses .NET Framework 3.5 while Logos 5 uses .NET Framework 4.5

Keep Smiling [:)]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441962#Comment_441962

Diana poses an interesting point. But after searching for only 20 minutes, I DID find a page

Interestingly enough, Diana's answer is contained in her own post. She listed the minimum system requirement as Vista, which rules out XP.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441962#Comment_441962

Diana poses an interesting point. But after searching for only 20 minutes, I DID find a page

Interestingly enough, Diana's answer is contained in her own post. She listed the minimum system requirement as Vista, which rules out XP.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441962#Comment_441962

Diana poses an interesting point. But after searching for only 20 minutes, I DID find a page

Interestingly enough, Diana's answer is contained in her own post. She listed the minimum system requirement as Vista, which rules out XP.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441993#Comment_441993

Diana poses an interesting point. But after searching for only 20 minutes, I DID find a page
Interestingly enough, Diana's answer is contained in her own post. She listed the minimum system requirement as Vista, which rules out XP.

Jack, I am wondering if you are trying to increase your post count.

FYI... Not everyone knows how operating systems work.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442000#Comment_442000

FYI... Not everyone knows how operating systems work.

Wikipedia has an article about Windows NT => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT that includes version numbers from 3.1 (initial release) through 6.2 for Windows 8.

For Logos 5, the oldest support Windows operating system that can run .NET Framework 4.5 is Vista, which was released to businesses on 30 Nov 2006 and to consumers on 30 Jan 2007. Between Windows XP (version 5.2), Vista (version 6.0), and Windows 7 (version 6.1), Vista was known for being the slowest => http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/windows_7_review Also remember Vista's User Access Control being a bit of an annoyance.

Noticed Logos recommends Windows 8 for Logos 5. Caveat: Windows 8 does not ship with a Start button and has some User Interface quirks: e.g. move mouse pointer to lower right corner, then right click for a hidden menu. On a touch screen, when an application is running in full screen, can swipe in from the left or right sides of the screen.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442005#Comment_442005

Caveat: Windows 8 does not ship with a Start button and has some User Interface quirks: e.g. move mouse pointer to lower right corner, then right click for a hidden menu.

With a third-party replacement for the Start button (free or $5) you wouldn't know it to be any different to Windows 7 if you choose to boot to the desktop and disable all the quirky hot spots.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442034#Comment_442034

With a third-party replacement for the Start button (free or $5) you wouldn't know it to be any different to Windows 7 if you choose to boot to the desktop and disable all the quirky hot spots

Most users would not know how to do that. [:O]

The BEST thing that happened to me when I "switched" to Mac: People stopped coming to me for tech support. [:D]

Diana Hermann

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/441955#Comment_441955

I thank everyone who replied for their responses. I was unaware or had forgotten that Vista was a higher OS than XP. I guess I will just have to wait until I can save up enough money for a new PC before upgrading to Logos 5. (I have considered switching to MAC but have too much invested in PC software at this point.) I do have Windows 7 on my laptop but I would assume I cannot run L5 on one and L4 on the other since when they update they will update according to my account. Can anyone tell me if that is an accurate assumption.

Thanks again to everyone who replied.

Diana

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442145#Comment_442145

Hi Diana

I do have Windows 7 on my laptop but I would assume I cannot run L5 on one and L4 on the other since when they update they will update according to my account. Can anyone tell me if that is an accurate assumption.

No, you can update to Logos 5 on your laptop and your XP machine will stay at Logos 4.

The folks at Logos built intelligence into the installer so it would check for a high enough level of operating system before trying to upgrade to L5.

If you have multiple Windows 7 (or Vista) machines linked to the same Logos account they will all be upgrade to L5 once you upgrade one.

Graham

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442145#Comment_442145

I guess I will just have to wait until I can save up enough money for a new PC before upgrading to Logos 5.

Just to add one little thing to Graham's comments… The upgrade prices are reduced significantly right now. You should seriously consider that in your decision. I just upgraded today when I received some Christmas money and realized the price was "right."

I have considered switching to MAC but have too much invested in PC software at this point

I don't think anyone should "switch" for the wrong reasons… but certainly you shouldn't avoid it for wrong reasons as well. Depending upon the software you are needing to use, you may find good alternatives on Mac… Some may come free with the OS… Plus, the software you are running on your computer now may or may not run well on Windows X.X in the future.

If you don't mind… what sort of apps are we talking about? Do you run these personally, or with a business? (In other words, is compatibility a consideration)?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442088#Comment_442088

With a third-party replacement for the Start button (free or $5) you wouldn't know it to be any different to Windows 7 if you choose to boot to the desktop and disable all the quirky hot spots

Most users would not know how to do that.

Google "start button Windows 8" or start8.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442000#Comment_442000

Jack, I am wondering if you are trying to increase your post count.

When I first saw your post, I did not realize that mine posted thrice [8-|] The forum software did not indicate that it had posted even once.

FYI... Not everyone knows how operating systems work.

I was responding to DMB's post that seemed to criticize Logos for not posting minimum system requirement, when it was clearly displayed.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442280#Comment_442280

With a third-party replacement for the Start button (free or $5) you wouldn't know it to be any different to Windows 7 if you choose to boot to the desktop and disable all the quirky hot spots

Most users would not know how to do that.

Google "start button Windows 8" or start8.

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm really not trying to bash Windows... But surely you can see that MOST users would not even think to do that. How else do you think IT departments stay in business. [;)]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442375#Comment_442375

But surely you can see that MOST users would not even think to do that. How else do you think IT departments stay in business.

I'm missing your point, Alabama. How to do what?

If users read (where else but the Internet?) that Windows 8 doesn't have a start button then they would inevitably also read that it is supported by third party software (as I did). If somebody on this forum wants to make only the negative statement then I'll add the positive!

I'll agree that a non-computer / non-internet savvy user might buy a Windows 8 computer anf get lost because they imagined it would the same as the old XP/Vista/7. Then they ring me[:)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442445#Comment_442445

Well, Dave. I'm in your last paragraph (no offense). I'm also not into 'boy toys' ... if it's not there, it's not there. (Jack's 3x reply demonstrated the principle very clearly.)

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442445#Comment_442445

I'm missing your point, Alabama. How to do what?

I think you did get it...

I'll agree that a non-computer / non-internet savvy user might buy a Windows 8 computer anf get lost because they imagined it would the same as the old XP/Vista/7. Then they ring me

Most computer users fall in this category. You've got job security. [:)]

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442369#Comment_442369

I was responding to DMB's post that seemed to criticize Logos for not posting minimum system requirement, when it was clearly displayed.

True, and the poster even posted the minimum requirements. Still, I was saying not everyone knows what OS took the place of another OS.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442152#Comment_442152

If you have multiple Windows 7 (or Vista) machines linked to the same Logos account they will all be upgrade to L5 once you upgrade one.

After upgrading to Logos 5, when an installation checks for updates and is capable of running Logos 5, then Logos 5 is downloaded. The downloaded installer can be deleted and the update manager database modified to "indicate" that Logos 5 release was installed.

Personally have Logos 4.6b Beta 1 and Logos 5.0b Beta 1 installed on OS X 10.8.2 and Windows 7 by using different computer accounts. Also accidentally upgraded one of my Logos 4.6 installations to Logos 5.0 so uninstalled and use quick installation steps to rebuild Logos 4.6 (using scan command).

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442451#Comment_442451

Well, Dave. I'm in your last paragraph (no offense).

I would not have put you in the last category!

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442494#Comment_442494

Still, I was saying not everyone knows what OS took the place of another OS.

I'm married to one of those [:D]

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442034#Comment_442034

Caveat: Windows 8 does not ship with a Start button and has some User Interface quirks: e.g. move mouse pointer to lower right corner, then right click for a hidden menu.

With a third-party replacement for the Start button (free or $5) you wouldn't know it to be any different to Windows 7 if you choose to boot to the desktop and disable all the quirky hot spots.

I think this whole issue concerning the Start Menu is simply people's resistance to change (Oh how often I have confronted that demon in my congregation). For myself, I don't miss the start menu. But even as far back as Windows 98 I seldom used it. However the same features that the old Start Menu offers are available in the Windows 8 Start Screen and in most cases with fewer clicks. So why cludge up your fresh install with add-ons that aren't even necessary? Take an hour or so to become familiar with the new interface. Just my opinion mind you.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442005#Comment_442005

User Interface quirks: e.g. move mouse pointer to lower right corner, then right click for a hidden menu.

Or press Windows Key + X and pull up the same menu. [:)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442625#Comment_442625

Actually humans (and the rest of God's creation) generally do not prefer change, unless it's gradual. Cars. Houses. Bibles. Grocery store layouts. Investments. What else? The weather.

Change trumpeters are almost always people with an idea. And it's always REALLY good.

Change is also 'social'. I clearly remember when I had a phone that brought in information for investments, etc. many years back. There was not a guy or gal in the room interested. But if a large group eventually signs on, then 'change' is 'well of course!'. We can check our investments by the minute!

Here in Logos-land, I'd give pretty good odds, the 'vast' majority of users simply read, highlight, make a few notes. It easy to see when someone asks 'how do you use this new feature in your Bible study?' and there's complete silence. Duh.

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442611#Comment_442611

I think this whole issue concerning the Start Menu is simply people's resistance to change (Oh how often I have confronted that demon in my congregation). For myself, I don't miss the start menu. But even as far back as Windows 98 I seldom used it. However the same features that the old Start Menu offers are available in the Windows 8 Start Screen and in most cases with fewer clicks. So why cludge up your fresh install with add-ons that aren't even necessary? Take an hour or so to become familiar with the new interface. Just my opinion mind you.

I could not agree more, since I got a new laptop with Windows 8 on it last week and have adjusted to it and even like the brand new look and feel. Not tempted to run add ons to make it more like Windows 7. You can customize the Start screen and the Desktop Screen easily enough within the program itself by adding shortcuts etc.

Schezic

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442654#Comment_442654

since I got a new laptop with Windows 8 on it last week and have adjusted to it and even like the brand new look and feel.

Hi, Joan;

I just finished posting a new thread centered around this issue. I thought of you while posting it. When you asked for advice about Windows 8, I was in my "I hate it" mode. I'm glad you ignored my advice.

God Bless

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442667#Comment_442667

I just finished posting a new thread centered around this issue. I thought of you while posting it. When you asked for advice about Windows 8, I was in my "I hate it" mode. I'm glad you ignored my advice.

I felt adventurous when I ordered it and braced myself for entering a brave, new world. Love it, especially because I set it up without a password and avoided the lock screen altogether.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442654#Comment_442654

I think this whole issue concerning the Start Menu is simply people's resistance to change (Oh how often I have confronted that demon in my congregation). For myself, I don't miss the start menu. But even as far back as Windows 98 I seldom used it. However the same features that the old Start Menu offers are available in the Windows 8 Start Screen and in most cases with fewer clicks. So why cludge up your fresh install with add-ons that aren't even necessary? Take an hour or so to become familiar with the new interface. Just my opinion mind you.

I could not agree more, since I got a new laptop with Windows 8 on it last week and have adjusted to it and even like the brand new look and feel. Not tempted to run add ons to make it more like Windows 7. You can customize the Start screen and the Desktop Screen easily enough within the program itself by adding shortcuts etc.

It's a brave new world for MS seeing they have to appease the business world as well as compete with modern apps on phones and tablets. I poked around in the corners, used the Windows-key shortcuts and typed program names into the Run box for quite some time before deciding it was too unproductive for how I prefer to work on the Desktop.

Juanita

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442793#Comment_442793

Dave,

You, hands down, know computers. Me, I was in a situation where I had a laptop with XP on it so I had to move ahead and I could have chosen Windows 7 but chose 8, hoping that in four years when whatever iteration of Logos was out, It would be compatible. I chose Windows 8 and determined to like it. It grew on me. What may have helped me to more easily adjust was the solid state machine it is running on!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442819#Comment_442819

Joan, I forgot to add that you joined the brave new world more readily than I could - Kudos!

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442611#Comment_442611

So why cludge up your fresh install with add-ons that aren't even necessary?

You just described the new Windows 8 start screen ... an add-on that isn't even necessary! [:)]

In my opinion, Windows 8 isnt necessary. Windows 7 is the new XP [Y]

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442793#Comment_442793

It's a brave new world for MS seeing they have to appease the business world as well as compete with modern apps on phones and tablets. I poked around in the corners, used the Windows-key shortcuts and typed program names into the Run box for quite some time before deciding it was too unproductive for how I prefer to work on the Desktop.

I don't doubt that you gave it a thorough once over Dave. But in my experience I am able to do more with fewer mouse clicks and keystrokes and I suspect we use our systems for many of the same tasks. There are many features native to Windows 8 that required third party apps with Windows 7 and earlier. And we all know how those can clog up a system and hog resources. Additionally, Windows 8 boots much faster than Windows 7 did. In fact my older laptop (3-1/2 years old) seems like a new machine since I upgraded it to Windows 8 and don't even get me started about my 10 month old custom built desktop. I will probably hold off longer now before my next new build.

But it is all a matter of personal preference.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/443611#Comment_443611

You just described the new Windows 8 start screen ... an add-on that isn't even necessary!

In my opinion, Windows 8 isnt necessary. Windows 7 is the new XP

The Windows 8 Start Screen is much more than that John. It provides several features not available from Windows 7 and the old Start Menu. And the boot time improvement over Windows 7 is considerable. I've upgraded three of seven systems in our household and I am yet to disappointed. Two of the remaining ones are my wife's and I don't mess with her systems until she is ready. The final two are file servers that don't need the features offered s and really have nothing to gain by upgrading.

But as I have said elsewhere, it is a matter of personal taste and preference; if you don't mind being held back by your OS. [:D]

As far as Windows 7 being the new XP I guess that is true in that Windows XP was eventually supplanted by Windows 7 as the leading Windows version just as I believe will be the case with Windows 8 /Windows 7. [Y]

Blessings,

Bob

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/444869#Comment_444869

The Windows 8 Start Screen is much more than that John. It provides several features not available from Windows 7 and the old Start Menu. And the boot time improvement over Windows 7 is considerable.

several features not available from Windows 7? such as?

My new laptop has an Intel SSD in it. It boots Win7 from an UEFI partition in about 8 seconds. Win8 might be slightly faster, but 8 seconds is close enough to instant for me.

But as I have said elsewhere, it is a matter of personal taste and preference; if you don't mind being held back by your OS.

Held back? Can you name a single thing that I could do with Win8 that I can't do with Win7? I can't think of any.

As far as Windows 7 being the new XP I guess that is true in that Windows XP was eventually supplanted by Windows 7 as the leading Windows version just as I believe will be the case with Windows 8 /Windows 7.

Hey Bob, You completely forgot to mention Vista! Easy enough to do. And that is exactly my point. And XP has yet to be "supplanted" by Vista, Win7 or Win8. According to cnet XP still has 40.66% market share as compared to Vistas 5.8% and Win7's 44.69%. Win7 has a small lead now, but hasn't exactly supplanted XP yet. Particularly in businesses which still use XP as their primary desktop interface. XP still has a serious chunk of the market even after 11 years.

The fact is that Windows 8 is a tablet OS. The new start screen was designed for touchscreen devices. The only truly bold move Microsoft made here was to force this new interface upon purchasers of traditional desktop and laptop computers. Microsoft has used strongarm tactics like this in the past, but this time they are attempting to use their monopoly position in one sector to attempt to gain a foothold in another. It is Not likely to work.

Windows 8 will fail to make a dent with phones or tablets. Apple and Google already offer a well established product and Microsofts offering brings little that is new to the table. And it will fail with traditional computers because it eliminated the Windows 7 Start menu and made the desktop an afterthought.

Windows 8 offers zero true benefit to any traditional computer with a keyboard and mouse, and no touchscreen device.

Have a nice Christmas day [:D]

Doug

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/444942#Comment_444942

Windows 8 is more than a tablet OS but it does offer a sort of bridge between tablet and desktop. It will remember settings from one device to another and does some other things that are pretty neat. The desktop is still readily available (not an afterthought) too.

If I had a windows tablet, I would likely love win 8. However, since I only use it on the desktop, I find the RT apps to get in my way. I like the third party apps better and if you have a powerful computer (I do) I think 3rd party apps are more versatile and useful.

Most businesses run behind the technology curve because it's expensive to replace and upgrade and they want to get the most they can out of their current investments.

All that being said: I do personally like Windows 7 best. It's as quick as XP with great security features and very nice bells and whistles. Windows 8 follows this tradition and is a fine OS. Once again though, if I only intended to use it on the desktop, I would just stay at Win 7.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/444942#Comment_444942

Windows 8 offers zero true benefit to any traditional computer with a keyboard and mouse, and no touchscreen device.

In your opinion. But I have found numerous benefits and none of my systems are touch screen devices.

And XP has yet to be "supplanted" by Vista, Win7 or Win8. According to cnet XP still has 40.66% market share as compared to Vistas 5.8% and Win7's 44.69%.

Sure, when you survey systems already out there and in use. Those are not new sales figures. Before Windows 8's release how many new systems or new custom builds had Windows XP installed? Probably very close to zero. Thus Windows XP was supplanted by Windows 7. The same will happen with Windows 8 / Windows 7. Comparing Windows 8 to Windows Vista is comparing apples and oranges. Vista was sluggish, crash prone, and had issues with hardware compatibility on many fronts. Not so with Windows 8. The most common complaint is "They took away the Start Menu! Waaahhhh!" [:D]

I guess that is a non-issue for me and I have seen many people change their opinions after giving Windows 8 a real workout.

several features not available from Windows 7? such as?

I didn't state this clearly. What I meant was faster ways to accomplish the same tasks as compared to the start menu; i.e. the ability to perform many tasks with a simple shortcut key combo that took several clicks and pokes in Windows 7.

There are several other points you've attempted to make but I have a turkey to get into the oven. We could go back and forth from now until the second coming and most likely, neither of us would change his position. So let's just agree to disagree.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you my friend![;)]

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/444970#Comment_444970

I have a turkey to get into the oven.

You have a turkey installed on your computer too. Enjoy your turkey [:D]

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/445023#Comment_445023

You have a turkey installed on your computer too. Enjoy your turkey

Once again, merely your opinion.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/445067#Comment_445067

Once again, merely your opinion.

I thought it was already quite obvious that both sides of this discussion were merely opinions [:)]

If we were pointing out FACTS, I might mention that Steve Sinofsky, the guy responsible for removing the Start Menu and hiding the desktop, was fired several days after the release of Windows 8.

I would also have to mention that Windows 8 sales are already trailing Windows 7 sales for the same period last year, in spite of the fact that Windows 8 upgrades were practically given away at $15 each.

I might also mention that there are now at least 30 different companies offering replacement Start Menus for Windows 8, several of them reporting over a half-million users the 6 weeks following the launch of Windows 8. Stardocks Start8, which sells for $5, had already sold "tens of thousands of copies".

Some statistics of Windows 8 users:

11 percent of users disabled all hot corners on the new Start Screen
21 percent set their machines to boot to the Desktop
26 percent enable Windows to leave the Metro UI
27 percent disable the left hot corner.

As you can see, in order to make the interface usable basically involves disabling all or most of the new features. This is exactly what would be expected when you consider that the Windows 8 interface is not designed to be a desktop operating system. It is designed for tablets and phones with touchscreen interfaces.

Windows 8 requires reconfiguring, tweaking and 3rd party software just to achieve the same ease of productivity found natively in Windows 7.

I predict a Windows 8 service pack soon that includes the easy choice whether to use the new tablet touchscreen interface or the desktop. Microsoft might resist this a little while longer until it becomes painfully clear that desktop and laptop uses arent buying it, but it will come.

I think I will just stick with Windows 7. A quick google will reveal that most IT professionals are doing the same thing [H]

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/445305#Comment_445305

I think I will just stick with Windows 7

That's nice John. Good for you.

Have a good life my friend

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/445305#Comment_445305

11 percent of users disabled all hot corners on the new Start Screen
21 percent set their machines to boot to the Desktop
26 percent enable Windows to leave the Metro UI

27 percent disable the left hot corner.

And I contributed to all of those stats (strictly, I only disabled the hot corners on the Desktop because I don't see the Modern UI)!

If we were pointing out FACTS, I might mention that Steve Sinofsky, the guy responsible for removing the Start Menu and hiding the desktop, was fired several days after the release of Windows 8.

Significantly, he also simplified Task Manager and gave File (aka Windows) Explorer the ribbon menu, and improved enterprise features whilst only excluding .NET 3.5 and Media Centre (because only 6% of Windows 7 users ever launched Media Centre - which is only 24 million people!). So there is more than a hint of an each-way bet regarding desktop applications vs. modern apps.