Warning Label Solution:

( I incorrectly said Vatacan II it is actually "The Catechism of the Catholic Church" as available at http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/04z/z_1997-08-15__SS_Ioannes_Paulus_II__Catechismus_Catholicae_Ecclesiae__PL.doc.html (pages 63-64).

NOTICE I MAKE NO MENTION OF ANY DOCTRINE HERE, I AM JUST SAYING THAT
SOME ISSUES WARRANT IMPLEMENTING DENOMINATIONAL LABELING AND FILTERING
FEATURES. FOR THE SAKE OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF ALL OF US.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457560#Comment_457560

sorry that link is not english: here is "The Catechism of the Catholic Chruch in english: 1882.d_1997-08-15- SS Ioannes Paulus II - Catechismus Catholicae Ecclesiae - EN.doc

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457565#Comment_457565

the functionality is there - it is called tags. you are welcome to tag each and every resource in your library and perform searches accordingly.As an added bonus, you can provide the fruit of your labor of love to the community, so those, who are interested in "your opinion" can have your tags without having to do due diligence themselves.

When I read books, I ALWAYS assume that the views contained therein may be different from mine. your argument "make Logos tag each book to protect the innocent" takes away the inherent responsibility of the reader and places it unjustifiably on the librarian (Logos). Logos already CLEARLY labels the author, title, publisher of every resource. you are expecting it to spoonfeed and burp the reader [;)]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457560#Comment_457560

I incorrectly said Vatacan II it is actually "The Catechism of the Catholic Church"

If people do not understand that the resource reflects Catholic doctrine from either title, no amount of labeling will make them any more informed.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457631#Comment_457631

Well said Jack, incredibly well said.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457633#Comment_457633

Well said Jack, incredibly well said.

[Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457631#Comment_457631

I incorrectly said Vatacan II it is actually "The Catechism of the Catholic Church"

If people do not understand that the resource reflects Catholic doctrine from either title, no amount of labeling will make them any more informed.

smile. not exactly my point tho!

this subject is continuing on http://community.logos.com/forums/t/65469.aspx

thanks

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457661#Comment_457661

It is up to the customer to research what he or she is purchasing. You also have a 30 day return window. If you are buying expensive biblical research software, then it is not outside of the realm of reason that you should be able to research each title.

Matthew C Jones

This way you can search, and filter out the chaff from the wheat. ( or on the occasion that you want to research another denomination, you can exclusively find chaff )

handy?

Are you aware Logos has already provided us with a way to hide resources we do not wish to see? The whole idea behind tagging, hiding, and collections is having the ability to filter out "chaff." Do you need help with hiding resources?

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457679#Comment_457679

I think the request for warning labels or other "caveat emptor" types of information is ridiculous, if not condescending.

*However*... Logos did just implement community tags. If those tags could be displayed on the web page for the resource, that might be useful pre-purchase information on the product (in addition to the reviews feature).

Just a thought...

Donnie

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457679#Comment_457679

This way you can search, and filter out the chaff from the wheat. ( or on the occasion that you want to research another denomination, you can exclusively find chaff )

handy?

Are you aware Logos has already provided us with a way to hide resources we do not wish to see? The whole idea behind tagging, hiding, and collections is having the ability to filter out "chaff." Do you need help with hiding resources?

Hi ST,

I am aware, however my solution is also a little more functional. ie:

scenario:

I do a search on Mary
I see the main search results ( wheat expanded )
I read what the wheat has to say
I now want to check any sources in the Chaff. ( because good scholarship verifies sources )
The main search results have ( chaff material minimised )
I expand the chaff
I read the chaff.

Notice the benefits here:

no fumbling through search results to check each preface of each resource.
promotes a methodical study approach
no unhiding / rehiding resources every time I actually want to see the chaff.

In direct reply:

Benefit #3 being in reply the using tags, and hiding resources - which due to their implementation impede the user when they want to do something else. ie

tagging tools & collections do not integrate well with all of logos tools that they should - so they are ineffective.
hiding and unhiding effects logos tools, and subsequent orderly use of those resources when you do and do not want them. the Logos platform is unable to effectively solve this atm.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458250#Comment_458250

Did you read my post on COST that asked who was going to pay to add the warning label to old resources and change the software and have you listed everywhere you want the warnings to have effect? [you were worried about who was paying for advertising - how much will this system add to the cost of every Logos resource?]

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/65414/458037.aspx#458037

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458250#Comment_458250

tagging tools & collections do not integrate well with all of logos tools that they should - so they are ineffective.

Please elaborate what is ineffective; what tool(s) could be improved with collection setting(s) ?

Noticed Logos has many collection options in guides:

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458556#Comment_458556

Logos has many collection options in guides:

Hi KSJ,

thanks for the screen shot.

I would have to test the breadth and depth of the collection options & integration when the Logos 5 (free version) releases (hopefully with some free resources). I have only learned L5 by reading the Logos website and issues raised in the forums. I can learn alot by the website and forum, but it cannot replace testing for myself). On this case, i can see that collections are by default arranged by library resource types, and author groups. I see this as good, from what i can see from nice the screen shot you have supplied.

To elaborate:

I'd like the commentaries, and bible notes, and similarly designed things ( i've been hearing alot about catholic resources which can be used 'along side' the bible, and lectionaries, and reference book material like handbooks, encyclopedias, etc) to be expandable inside those result panes that would then occur once a user selects what guide type they want. I would like them to show the final results by denomination ( broadly grouped denominations like Catholic, Baptist etc.) That way I can read the good stuff, and the chaff without fumbling through all the results.

[ edit : Ie so that research can be done in an orderly way. There are times I want to read the chaff. ]

( forum threads have said that hiding resources is not a good solution except for resources you never want to look at )

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458513#Comment_458513

Did you read my post on COST that asked who was going to pay to add the warning label to old resources and change the software and have you listed everywhere you want the warnings to have effect? [you were worried about who was paying for advertising - how much will this system add to the cost of every Logos resource?]

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/65414/458037.aspx#458037

Hi David,

I just figured you were being a tease or were irritated. ( apologies if I figured wrong ) [edit: or perhaps I didn't explain it very well]

It seems you didn't take my post in the spirit and context that I expressed it as.

If you didn't understand my point that is ok. Please read my post under Bobs first post to this thread to see what I meant.

Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458841#Comment_458841

I would have to test the breadth and depth of the collection options & integration when the Logos 5 (free version) releases (hopefully with some free resources). I have only learned L5 by reading the Logos website and issues raised in the forums. I can learn alot by the website and forum, but it cannot replace testing for myself). On this case, i can see that collections are by default arranged by library resource types, and author groups. I see this as good, from what i can see from nice the screen shot you have supplied.

Logos wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos that includes free Logos 4 installation links and Tip has a link => http://wiki.logos.com/Free_Logos_Books Logos 4 has collections and guide sections with customizable collection choices.

For collections, Getting Started => http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos#Collections has a segment that includes link => http://wiki.logos.com/Collections

When a new Logos library is created, the library has no collections so the Logos user can define them. Personally have created a number of collections by copying collection examples in wiki => http://wiki.logos.com/Example_Collections and => http://wiki.logos.com/Canonical_Commentary_Collections

Keep Smiling [;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458878#Comment_458878

Hi KSJ,

in response to the example collections link:

what I'd be looking for would be to a rule which grouped by favored denominations, and which also grouped unfavored denominations in the results, but minimized so that I could optionally view them if I was interested, or wanted to get a broad perspective.

Thanks heaps for taking the time. I appreciate it.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458934#Comment_458934

what I'd be looking for would be to a rule which grouped by favored denominations, and which also grouped unfavored denominations in the results, but minimized so that I could optionally view them if I was interested, or wanted to get a broad perspective.

You could do this by creating a custom Passage Guide with sections for favored denominations and unfavored denominations in whatever order you wanted them.

You'd create collections for your favored and unfavored resources using (tagging or the star rating system). For example, you might have a collection called "Nasty Heathenish Nonsense" which has as its rule one or the other of these, depending on how you organize your library:

mytag:heathen_popery

rating:1

Then create a custom passage guide which includes these collection sections in order of value to you. Click the Collections button to add as many collections sections as you need, and select the collection from the dropdown:

That way you can keep your particular prejudices to yourself and not inflict them on others. Besides no system of warning labels that Logos could create would universally work for everyone. Best to tag your own resources the way you like them as to which ones you trust a lot vs. a little vs. not at all. It'll take you time to familiarize yourself with all your resources. But that is time well spent.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458845#Comment_458845

Re: my request on 'Did you read my post on COST'

quote from "Luigi Sam" ""I just figured you were being a tease or were irritated. ( apologies if I figured wrong ) ""

Here I was trying to take you serious. And as you had mentioned cost of advertising I was wondering if you had considered the cost of labels. And who pays?

I had also asked if you had reviewed the program [Logos/Verbum] and listed everywhere that labels would affect the output. [an analysis that needs to be done before we can even start to figure out the cost. Just adding a label is only the first step - then we need to change the program to use the labels.

[[I, having been reading this forum since when L4 was released and I don't think that labels will work [from much that I have learned reading here] and having been a programmer [Including Analysis and Design Changes] for 40 years think that it will be very very expensive. Some resources might take an employee a week to research [what category was the author in when he they wrote it and does it matter? - just because an author normally writes in one way does not guarantee that that author's next book will also be in the same category] [will one person be able to make the call on the correct label or will it need a large multi-denominational conference?] [do we then require the publishers to put those labels on their advertising and hard copies?] [will some call that censorship or claim free speech rights?] ]]

[[I had L4 Platinum and I upgraded to L5 Platinum [Diamond was out of my price range] and I also have Verbum Capstone - I review every hit - takes months and have learned that what I have been told about others is not always true - and is often dead wrong]]

In some other posts I was trying to get you to see other alternative thinking - ||Catholic / All Others|| instead of ||Catholic / Protestant|| [there are Christians that are not Catholic and also not Protestant]

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458937#Comment_458937

what I'd be looking for would be to a rule which grouped by favored denominations, and which also grouped unfavored denominations in the results, but minimized so that I could optionally view them if I was interested, or wanted to get a broad perspective.

You could do this by creating a custom Passage Guide with sections for favored denominations and unfavored denominations in whatever order you wanted them.

You'd create collections for your favored and unfavored resources using (tagging or the star rating system). For example, you might have a collection called "Nasty Heathenish Nonsense" which has as its rule one or the other of these, depending on how you organize your library:

mytag:heathen_popery

OR

rating:1

Then create a custom passage guide which includes these collection sections in order of value to you. Click the Collections button to add as many collections sections as you need, and select the collection from the dropdown:

That way you can keep your particular prejudices to yourself and not inflict them on others. Besides no system of warning labels that Logos could create would universally work for everyone. Best to tag your own resources the way you like them as to which ones you trust a lot vs. a little vs. not at all. It'll take you time to familiarize yourself with all your resources. But that is time well spent.

[Y]I was going to say something very similar.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458955#Comment_458955

Besides no system of warning labels that Logos could create would universally work for everyone. Best to tag your own resources the way you like them as to which ones you trust a lot vs. a little vs. not at all. It'll take you time to familiarize yourself with all your resources. But that is time well spent.

I was going to say something very similar.

DIRECT Question to "Luigi Sam" Is the issue that you want Logos to do the labeling and are not willing to do it yourself as suggested?

If we or Logos rated all the resources for you it saves you time [[but it drives the cost way up.]] And you will not always agree with our rating.

It you do it yourself you will know that it was done right. Yes, it will take you time but as you use a resource you can add it to the correct collection and work as above.

For starters do as ST suggested. Talk to your spiritual adviser. Start with their suggestions and no others. Then, as you get more sure in your faith, branch out.

Anthony H

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457631#Comment_457631

I incorrectly said Vatacan II it is actually "The Catechism of the Catholic Church"

If people do not understand that the resource reflects Catholic doctrine from either title, no amount of labeling will make them any more informed.

[Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458966#Comment_458966

Hi David,

thanks for a post that doesn't have mean spirited comments in them.

I guess what would also help is seeing how a search/report result window shows the results.

For example look at the passage guide pic posted by smile for Jesus. as attached.

it has commentary collections.

My Question is: will these extra collections (that Rosie nastily suggests) become sub collections of the commentary collection?

thanks for your time.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459303#Comment_459303

My Question is: will these extra collections ... become sub collections of the commentary collection?

No OR Yes, answer depends on your commentary collection(s). For Yes, a collection can include other collection(s) OR the rule could broadly include all commentary resources. Personally have a "Commentary - Unclassified" collection that has commentary types while excluding other commentary collections:

Comparing Commentary sections in a Passage Guide to Cited By tool for the same passage, noticed different commentary links. Passage Guide shows commentaries in your prioritized order. The first one in the Passage Guide commentary section using collection Commentary - Exegetical has wiki review pages => http://wiki.logos.com/Resource$3a_UBS_Old_Testament_Handbook_Series and => http://wiki.logos.com/Resource$3a_UBS_New_Testament_Handbook_Series

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459303#Comment_459303

Hi David,

My Question is: will these extra collections become sub collections of the commentary collection?

Step one: What thread am I in: Warning Label Solution: [Warning I made some edits to the ‘’quotes’’ that I do not think change their meaning as needed for this post]

What did : Rosie suggest:::

You'd create collections for your favored and unfavored resources using (tagging or the star rating system). For example, you might have a collection called "Nasty Heathenish Nonsense":

What was asked: will these extra collections become sub collections of the commentary collection?::

Experiment number 1: Can one add collections to a collection?

Start up Logos 5, make a collection A, make a collection B, Make a collection C and add A and B to it

Check wiki for help on merging collections

http://www.logosbiblesoftwaretraining.com/other-videos/collections-and-prioritising/#desc-8145864

Not automatically, you would have to add them to the super-collection [C above] [have you watched the videos?]

Having separated ‘the Good, the bad, and the ugly’ [one of my favorite western movies] but once made you can easily combine those collections in to a larger collection. They will ACT as sub collections; if you use C (above) any changes you make to A (above) would be seen the next time you use C in a search.

Collections require US to do the work and are only a start on what you have requested but they can limit what is searched [Yes, the bad and the ugly might show up when expanding what was found in the good only search] BUT as YOU entered the list of the ‘good’ items you will become very familiar with that list and soon you will be able to almost automatically ignore all other resources that might pop up [if not on MY good list then don’t open] - it is a start and it is under your control.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459338#Comment_459338

If Luigi were simply a pen name for a class project (maybe one of the Bible college courses), all the excited people would appear a whole lot different, especially if quoted (as Luigi's already mentioned) in the write-up (anonymously of course .... Logos Christian #1, Logos Christian #2 and on up to Logos Christian #143).

I'm not sure why folks are absolutely incensed that another earthling has a differing opinion (especially since the opinion drove the expansion of virutually all the versions of Christianity). I suspect if we consulted the anthropology department at the same Bible college, we'd get our answer (no need to consult our Logos books).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458841#Comment_458841

I would have to test the breadth and depth of the collection options & integration when the Logos 5 (free version) releases (hopefully with some free resources). I have only learned L5 by reading the Logos website and issues raised in the forums. I can learn alot by the website and forum, but it cannot replace testing for myself).

Logos 5 free engine is now available.

Wiki => http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos has Logos 4 and Logos 5 installation links.

Wiki also has => http://wiki.logos.com/Free_Logos_Books

Logos 5 Gold and above include => UBS New Testament Handbook Series and => UBS Old Testament Handbook Series along with appropriate resources to use all features in Logos 5.

Thankful for 329 free ebook's (includes some sampler's) since Thanksgiving 2010 from http://vyrso.com that are usable in Logos 4 and Logos 5.

Keep Smiling [:)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458841#Comment_458841

I would have to test the breadth and depth of the collection options & integration when the Logos 5 (free version) releases (hopefully with some free resources). I have only learned L5 by reading the Logos website and issues raised in the forums. I can learn alot by the website and forum, but it cannot replace testing for myself). On this case, i can see that collections are by default arranged by library resource types, and author groups. I see this as good, from what i can see from nice the screen shot you have supplied.

Luigi Sam, what version of Logos do you have? Collections in L4 are the same as in L5. I had assumed from your suggestion that you were a long time Logos user. If you are not, I can see how my suggestions would not have appeared to be possible solutions to the issues you raised.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459684#Comment_459684

Hi MJ,

The version I have installed at the moment is L3.

I installed L4 when it was released as a free version, but i didn't really get into it much because it seems some features dont work unless you get the cross grade, and at that point in time, while L4 did have things I liked, it also seemed feature incomplete, so I didn't consider purchasing it because it doesn't make sense to me ( to some degree ) to pay before the product is completed. But I didn't want to raise those issues, I am just giving some background on some of my thoughts at that point in time.

Also I re-install my OS on a whim, and the installers for logos these days are not ideal, as in, they do not give me enough control to install how i want to ( and require either internet connection, or saving all folders from the old OS) which is a hassle to me. But again, I didn't want to raise those issues, I am just giving some background on some of my thoughts as to why I haven't purchased more Logos material lately.
Also, even though I think I saved the L4 folders somewhere at one point in time, and have sucessfully restored them on one occasion, at this point in time i never actually get around to restoring them again.
So in a way MJ, I am following the Logos product, so much so that at times I treat myself as if I am using L4 or 5.

But then the point might be made: why then am I bothering to suggest anything since I am not using it atm? The answer is just above, I treat myself as if I am apart of the L4 and L5 users because user feedback aids what features are developed, and when I actually do enter into using the platform, just like any other user, I'd like it to have the features, Im just doing it a bit backwards at the moment [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459338#Comment_459338

Not automatically, you would have to add them to the super-collection [C above] [have you watched the videos?]

Having separated ‘the Good, the bad, and the ugly’ [one of my favorite western movies] but once made you can easily combine those collections in to a larger collection. They will ACT as sub collections; if you use C (above) any changes you make to A (above) would be seen the next time you use C in a search.

Hi David,

No I haven't actually watched those videos.

Can I just ask one more question please?

can you hide the sub-collections from also showing up on the collections list as collections in thier own right? Because I wouldn't want my subcollections to be cluttering up the ('passage guide pane' for example) when I only wanted then as subcollections.

thanks for your time.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/460470#Comment_460470

Because I wouldn't want my subcollections to be cluttering up the ('passage guide pane' for example) when I only wanted then as subcollections.

Collections/subcollections appear in the Passage Guide only if you have requested them. Those I use less frequently, I leave closed so that they do not automatically populate.

You cannot suppress subcollections in the collection lists - but if you have used a decent naming convention that doesn't really become an issue. However, you can control which sections of a guide are populated when you open the guide and what you open as the need arises. Having made some less-than-ideal initially, I will vouch that there is nothing better than personal experience to get things working the way you want. There are a few limitations but they don't fall into any area in which you have expressed concern.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/460468#Comment_460468

Also I re-install my OS on a whim, and the installers for logos these days are not ideal, as in, they do not give me enough control to install how i want to ( and require either internet connection, or saving all folders from the old OS) which is a hassle to me.

Wiki => http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers has steps for replicating a Logos installation. If choose to partition storage, Logos 4 and Logos 5 have custom installation options, which can be quickly replicated. Also have replicated Libronix 3.0g too.

Another option for OS whim is creating virtual machine(s) that are dedicated for Logos use.

can you hide the sub-collections from also showing up on the collections list as collections in thier own right? Because I wouldn't want my subcollections to be cluttering up the ('passage guide pane' for example) when I only wanted then as subcollections.

All collections show up in collections list in alphabetical order. When have many collections, have to scroll down list so a number of collections are hidden from view when list appears.

Keep Smiling [:)]