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Big Lag - Logos 5 Mac

Sam DeSocio

Im running logos 5 on a system right in the middle of the system requirements 2.4gig intel with 4 gigs of ram. But everytime I use logos it seems to get a little slower. I didnt notice anything the first few days but now we are talking about a 3-5 second delay with almost everything I do.

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Comments

Dave Hooton

Tell us about your computer system and what features seem to be slower. And see if any of these recommendations apply to you.

Jack Caviness

If none of the suggestions that Dave referenced solve your problem, you will need to post log files

The most convenient way to enable logging is to use the Applescript LogosLogging by KS4J. (Restart of Logos needed after enabling)
Then use Logos-Log-Scribe to create an archive of the logs on your desktop.
Use the paperclip on the message prep window to attach.

Jeff Hetrick

I see the link that Dave inserted below and will play around with some of that but I do hate the thought of having to disable any features to get my very expensive software to run smoothly. Logos has always been slow and sluggish (I started with Libronix 3) and it and everything since has been less than optimal in performance. I have mostly overlooked it (having some concept of the work going on under the hood) but Logos 5 is the worst to date. I guess more is going on under the hood.

I'm using it on a Mackbook Pro and an iMac and the thing continuously crashes and shuts down on it's own (nearly every use). One thing I have noticed is that nearly every time I prioritize resources it crashes during the process. Disappointing. I can say that the iMac is new with the same amount of RAM as my MacBook Pro but a faster processor but the slow, sluggishness and crashing seems to be perfectly consistent between the two.

I'm not blaming Logos for my insufficient system but it's the only software I use (and I'm a bit of a geek and have them all) that does not perform within the system parameters that they claim. I'm used to reading "minimal system requirements" and assuming that the program will function as designed when running on a system with those minimal (and in my case and yours, well within) parameters. I no longer expect that from Logos but put up with the shortcomings because the program is so much more useful than any of the others. With that said, I am definitely not a "power user". I'm considering spending the money on a Windows PC (something I said I would never do again) just to get the power I can't afford in the higher end Apple products. Not sure if that will be the answer though.

Jeff Hetrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457637#Comment_457637

Clarification - I have only used Logos 4 and 5 on Mac. My earlier versions ran on my Windows PC which I no longer own. I'm all Apple so can't compare with Windows at this point.

Cliffton Veal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457637#Comment_457637

It was with dismay that I read this thread. I am having the same slowness and sluggishness issues since my upgrade to Logos 5 Mac. It seems to get worse with each passing day. Maybe a move over to the Windows version would be the best. Dont have time to fight with the Mac version.

Cliff Veal

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457650#Comment_457650

To the three persons who are complaining about slowness in L5 Mac: Your user experience is not typical; therefore, could you please posts log files so that developers/tech support will have some data to analyze your problem?

I requested this in a previous post to this thread along with instructions to make this a simple process, but so far, no logs.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457718#Comment_457718

To the three persons who are complaining about slowness in L5 Mac: Your user experience is not typical; therefore, could you please posts log files so that developers/tech support will have some data to analyze your problem?

From my horizon, it's very typical. And, as you must know, I've posted logs any number of times. Can't say I've seen much interest from Logos in reading them or doing anything. Of course I hope the people above will have more success in waking them up, but I'm not exactly holding my breath...

If the sluggishness is a general thing, and not just specific tasks, you can try clearing History (Tools > History > Clear). That sometimes helps, for a while.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457733#Comment_457733

If the sluggishness is a general thing, and not just specific tasks, you can try clearing History (Tools > History > Clear). That sometimes helps, for a while.

Personally, would like an option to disable History.

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457630#Comment_457630

I dont have any linking enabled. And Im not ticked.

Right now I have the a passage list open and the esv. I click a verse count to 3 and then the esv changes...

The info about making a log was all 404s - please tell me how to make a log.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457768#Comment_457768

The info about making a log was all 404s - please tell me how to make a log.

Sam, try this http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging#Logos_5_for_OS_X

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457768#Comment_457768

The info about making a log was all 404s

That's what I get for using FireFox instead of Safari. Try these links.

The most convenient way to enable logging is to use the Applescript LogosLogging by KS4J. (Restart of Logos needed after enabling)

Then use Logos Log Scribe to create an archive of the logs on your desktop.

Use the paperclip on the message prep window to attach.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457849#Comment_457849

I recommend "calling" Logos support, get a screen-share going , let them see it and hopefully fix it.

Weekdays only of course.

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457630#Comment_457630

Still slow. This is my first time with logos and Im pretty bummed, I dove in because I loved the cross platform connections.

I think this is the log you need.1157.awesomium copy.log

8422.LogosError copy.log

7510.Logos copy.log

2514.LogosError-2 copy.log

2642.LogosError copy.log

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458240#Comment_458240

Still slow. This is my first time with logos and Im pretty bummed,

There are gaps of several seconds between operations but there isn't enough information to know why.

I'd like you to run Logos with logging enabled and perform some common operations before uploading logos.log. Make sure there are no other apps running.

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458297#Comment_458297

Dave,

Im glad I read this Ill be working on putting together our worship program this morning so Ill be looking lots of stuff up.

Ill make sure the log updates when I launch in a few minutes. What file are you looking for?

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458354#Comment_458354

Ok here is a log file of this mornings activities. I did some research and moved around to several different passages, and I copied out some text into evernote.

4527.LogosLogs Sam DeSocio 20130202-121918.gz

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

But everytime I use logos it seems to get a little slower. I didnt notice anything the first few days but now we are talking about a 3-5 second delay with almost everything I do.

Wonder about clearing History ? Tools => History => Clear

Wiki => http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos has a number of Logos usage tips. Personally have learned having less open is more responsive along with knowing how to quickly open and search. Right click menu has many choices. When a tab has focus, clicking on "+" is a quick way to open another resource that has Bible verse within range of verses in that resource.

Im running logos 5 on a system right in the middle of the system requirements 2.4gig intel with 4 gigs of ram.

Observation: MacBook Pro 7,1 model from mid 2010 has a 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor (P8600), which is closer to minimum than recommended => http://www.logos.com/support/tech-faq A mobile processor benchmark list => http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmarklist.2436.0.html has P8600 at # 169 while a 2nd Generation 1.6 GHz i5-2467M at # 141 completed a Prime 1024 benchmark in 20 % less time. Humanly tend to notice 10 % or more speed difference.

If was shopping for a computer for Logos use, would look for 2nd/3rd Generation Intel i5/i7 that are in Macs models released in 2011 and newer.

Apple has refurbished Mac models => http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

MacBook Air (2012 model) with 1.8 GHz i5, 4 GB RAM, and 256 GB SSD is $ 1,249 => http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD232LL/A/refurbished-macbook-air-18ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5 whose i5-3427U CPU is # 82 on list, which completed Prime 1024 benchmark in 42 % less time than P8600.

MacBook Air (2011 model) with 1.8 GHz i7, 4 GB RAM, and 256 GB SSD is $ 1,179 =>http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0ME0LL/A/refurbished-macbook-air-18ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i7 whose i7-2677M CPU is # 104 on list, which completed Prime 1024 benchmark in 33 % less time than P8600.

MacBook Pro 7,1 also has a 250 GB 5,400 RPM disk drive. Upgrading disk drive to a newer Solid State Disk (SSD) would noticeably improve Logos 5 and OS X performance. The I Fix It web site has illustrated steps => http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Unibody+Mid+2010+Hard+Drive+Replacement/4305/1 Other World Computing (Mac Sales) has Do It Yourself (DIY) laptop upgrade kits => http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/hard-drives/2.5-Notebook/SATA/DIY/ including hybrid drives => http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/Search.cfm?Ntk=Primary&Ns=P_Popularity|1&Ne=5000&N=100049&Ntt=DIY+Express (SSD cache with larger capacity disk drive) and SSD kits => http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/Search.cfm?Ntk=Primary&Ns=P_Popularity|1&Ne=5000&N=100046&Ntt=DIY+Express

Noticed NewEgg has a couple 256 GB SSD's for $ 179.99 => http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233403 and => http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211597

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457735#Comment_457735

If the sluggishness is a general thing, and not just specific tasks, you can try clearing History (Tools > History > Clear). That sometimes helps, for a while.

Personally, would like an option to disable History.

+1 [Y] for Program Setting to disable history.

Logos User Voice suggestion has 3 votes => http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-5/suggestions/2091637-please-add-logos-4-program-settings

Keep Smiling [:)]

Michael Horibe

I was planning to upgrade to 5 but after reading the Mac issues, I think I will pass. It's very frustrating to invest a lot of money in a software program that doesn't perform.

Mike

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458373#Comment_458373

I was planning to upgrade to 5 but after reading the Mac issues, I think I will pass. It's very frustrating to invest a lot of money in a software program that doesn't perform.

For many OS X users, Logos 5 is noticeably quicker than Logos 4 Mac. Thankful for Logos 5 full screen capability.

Also OS X users have option to run Windows in a virtual machine, which has been quicker for some.

On 14 Sep 2012 => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/54439/396738.aspx Bob Pritchett (CEO) shared Mac users are 30 % of Logos user base plus a puzzling observation:

Moreover, while I completely agree that we have performance and stability and parity issues we still need to address, the Mac user base does appear (based on what we see from inside Logos) to be split into "it never works for me" and "it always works for me" camps. I'm not sure what accounts for the split -- if it's the age of hardware, amount of memory, version of OS X, or intensity or pattern of use of the product -- but as you can see even from posters in this forum thread, many people aren't having daily problems with it. 30% of the user base isn't up in arms about the Mac; 30% of support calls aren't critical Mac issues. The pain appears to be spread unevenly, and I'm sorry if it's affecting you worse.

On 15 Nov 2012 => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59727/425488.aspx#425488 Bob Pritchett's reply included:

Logos 4.6a fixed most outstanding Mac issues; the stability issues remaining relate mostly to memory management and other issues in one of the platform technologies we use (Mono). Those were fixed (tech-detail: a brand new 'garbage collector' for managed memory) in a new version of Mono that was in beta in parallel with the Logos 5 beta. It released at the same time as Logos 5; we didn't want to destabilize Logos 4, but we're already working to back-port it to the 4 engine, which should be updated relatively soon with this final (and very helpful) stability improvement.

Thankful for Logos improving Logos 4 and Logos 5, yet puzzled by Logos performance being experienced by various users.

Logos User Voice suggestion has 31 votes => http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-5/suggestions/2091619-improve-logos-4-menu-responsiveness Personally dreaming of search drop down improvement to choose what to search.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458370#Comment_458370

Thanks, but I checked the minimum requirements before I purchased, and the church computer is less than 3 years old. And its above the minimum. Im running Adobe Creative Cloud without any lag, same for the new accordance. Logos was fast the first few days and then just slowed down.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458397#Comment_458397

Logos was fast the first few days and then just slowed down

I'm not a Mac user, but this sounds a lot like either you are running something in parallel that slows everything down (on Windows machines I'd point into the direction of antivirus software - don't you Mac guys have a background backup or so) or, - and this is something that I've seen in the forums - : Are you habitually never really shutting down your machine? If there's just a tiny memory leak in Logos or the mono platform below, this may grow into problems over some days. What do you see after Rebooting - fast or slow?

Anon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458397#Comment_458397

Logos was fast the first few days and then just slowed down.

My experience as well. The "gold release" for L4 and L5 were excellent... then with each new update came slower response, more beach balls, and crashing.

However, I've noticed if I restrict L5 to not accessing the internet the program responds far superior then with internet. You might compare how this works for your situation. Of course, this in itself is disappointing as we begin disabling features to optimize L5.

Just as a note: (history is cleared regularly, no long list of layouts or complex layouts using more than 12 resources, good stable internet connection, defragged HDD, and laptop not left on continually).

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458397#Comment_458397

Logos was fast the first few days and then just slowed down.

Wonder how many tabs are linked together ? Logos has link sets so changing location in one tab also changes location in other tabs.

Wonder about copying ESV to a new tab, then choosing "Send Hyperlinks Here" for that tab ? Clicking link in one resource updates tab with hyperlinks here instead of changing location in link set with many tabs.

Wiki http://wiki.logos.com/Getting_Started_with_Logos#First_Steps includes:

Tip: Forum PAINFUL SCROLLING ... has an Exegetical Guide tweak – remove Word by Word section for faster scrolling (especially with Bible Books and Chapters). Option: create a custom guide with Word by Word section – use when want detailed report for a verse (or two) with 5 links for every word (lemma, morphology, and 3 dictionaries) plus “more >>” link to expand dictionary list and populate Bible Word Study (BWS) usage count for each lemma (clicking lemma opens BWS for lemma in a new tab).

However, I've noticed if I restrict L5 to not accessing the internet the program responds far superior then with internet. You might compare how this works for your situation. Of course, this in itself is disappointing as we begin disabling features to optimize L5.

Logos.log file also shows many sync client messages so suggestion of setting Use Internet to No and restarting Logos 5.0 SR-4 would cause those messages to not appear. The LogosError.log file has several request time out errors for syncing with Logos servers.

Logos is a resource intensive application that benefits from fast processor, graphics, and quick storage. Personally have less open for more responsive Logos plus only link when want two or more tabs to sync location. Instead of linking 5 Bibles for location sync, found was quicker to read one Bible, then click "+" when wanted to look at a different Bible. The "+" opens tab to same location.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458469#Comment_458469

Ive only had Logos for 2 weeks, it starts us with lots of stuff and I close it all and Its still slow. Please dont just say that my computer is too old and that the defaults of the system are my fault.

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458469#Comment_458469

Ive only had logos for 2 weeks, and Ive never worked with it before that.

Much of the stuff you are saying, I dont think Im doing. I close most of the resources and turn off much of the linking, and there is still a noticeable lag between click and response (even when Im just bringing up a bible verse in one translation.)

I hope the response isn't your computer is old and your settings are wrong, as far as I know Ive followed all these helpful wiki links and I the rest is just the program defaults.

Maybe Ill just have to try and uninstall/reinstall to see if that speeds things up.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458561#Comment_458561

Much of the stuff you are saying, I dont think Im doing. I close most of the resources and turn off much of the linking, and there is still a noticeable lag between click and response (even when Im just bringing up a bible verse in one translation.)

Curious about a screen shot showing Bible verse change ? Wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Screenshot

Wonder about clicking three circles in Bible, then uncheck Links to open panels and Speaker labels followed by bringing up a bible verse or scrolling ?

Scrolling in ESV using Logos 5.0a SR-4 on a 2010 model MacBook Pro with Links to open panels and Speaker labels checked brought back memories of => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/32563.aspx (especially since ESV was open to Exodus 8). Click and wait time on a MacBook Pro with 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (upgraded 7,200 RPM hard drive) is noticeably longer than a 13" MacBook Air with 1.7 GHz Intel Core i5 and Solid State Disk (SSD).

I hope the response isn't your computer is old and your settings are wrong, as far as I know Ive followed all these helpful wiki links and I the rest is just the program defaults.

Understand program defaults that show off Logos capabilities have performance implications. Learning how to proficiently use Logos takes time and usage. Logos is designed for serious Bible Study; albeit initial experience can be a bit frustrating.

My favorite feature is visual filter highlighting, which can take many seconds to appear while using newer hardware.

Maybe Ill just have to try and uninstall/reinstall to see if that speeds things up.

If application bundle is corrupt, then uninstall/reinstall is worthwhile. If want to be a bit adventurous, could switch to beta channel for 5.0b; wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/The_Logos_5_Beta_Program Currently Beta channel has 5.0b Release Candidate 1; anticipating Release Candidate 2 later this month with more bug/crash fixes. After stable release, could change update channel to default, especially if do not want the bugginess of some public beta releases. A Release Candidate is close to being ready for stable. The 5.0b Release Candidate includes Bible Sense Lexicon improvement; wiki has more release notes => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_5.0b

Wiki also has => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting#Slow_Performance

Keep Smiling [:)]

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458580#Comment_458580

Keep Smiling - is english your second language? I ask because Im not following all the short hand. Hopefully one of the other guys will also chim in with some help.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458588#Comment_458588

Hopefully one of the other guys will also chim in with some help.

Sorry, but I'm just as puzzled.

All the commands you tried took an acceptable amount of time (from 0.07s to 2.3s) with only a couple of hints of slowness from the events that followed; but nothing to suggest why! You could get a Logos Tech to peek into your computer and run diagnostics.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458580#Comment_458580

Wonder about clicking three circles in Bible, then uncheck Links to open panels and Speaker labels followed by bringing up a bible verse or scrolling ?

Keep Smiling [:)]

Jeff Hetrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/457733#Comment_457733

To the three persons who are complaining about slowness in L5 Mac: Your user experience is not typical; therefore, could you please posts log files so that developers/tech support will have some data to analyze your problem?

From my horizon, it's very typical. And, as you must know, I've posted logs any number of times. Can't say I've seen much interest from Logos in reading them or doing anything. Of course I hope the people above will have more success in waking them up, but I'm not exactly holding my breath...

If the sluggishness is a general thing, and not just specific tasks, you can try clearing History (Tools > History > Clear). That sometimes helps, for a while.

Right - not sure why that was stated. I have certainly been around long enough (even though I don't live on the Forum) to know a slow, sluggish Logos is very typical. I'm hopeful that it will improve but do realize that I could beef up my system (buy a new one actually) and get more response than I get from my Mid-2010 year Macbook Pro .

With that said, I did wipe my hard drive clean and reinstalled the OS and a few other things along with Logos 5 and it is much, much faster. the clunky, frame-rate stuff seems to have been completely rectified which in my untrained opinion seems to mean that part of the problem was/is my system.

Logos might do better by advertising higher parameters for "minimal requirements". I have ran Logos versions on 4 different Windows PCs (maybe more like 5 or 6) and 4 different Macs (including one currently new iMac) and, well, Logos is just slow and sluggish as a rule compared to any other product I use.

Not intended as a poke in the eye, it's my choice to keep purchasing and upgrading and I will continue to support and use Logos. I do hope they will put some of their efforts into making the program more stable and speedy.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458588#Comment_458588

Keep Smiling - is english your second language? I ask because Im not following all the short hand. Hopefully one of the other guys will also chim in with some help.

Apologies [:$]

While using Logos 4 and Logos 5 on a variety of Mac models, have learned to click and wait. Newer models usually respond quicker than older models.

Experienced ESV scrolling sluggishness on older MacBook Pro when some visual filter items were enabled. After disabling items in the visual filter menu, scrolling was faster and smoother.

Keep Smiling [:)]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458372#Comment_458372

Personally, would like an option to disable History.

+1 for Program Setting to disable history.

Is that really a good idea?

Wouldn't that also disable the back and forward arrows, or are they completely independent?
Wouldn't that just give Bob and the devs an excuse to continue to ignore this issue?

(If it wasn't for those concerns, I'd vote for a setting like in a browser where you can choose how many items History remembers.)

As for the quotes from Bob, they just serve to show how utterly far from my reality he lives.

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458720#Comment_458720

Thanks - but I dont seem to have the Speaker Labels button?

Anyone know why not?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458959#Comment_458959

Thanks - but I dont seem to have the Speaker Labels button?

Anyone know why not?

You need L5 Silver (or higher) or the Minimal Crossgrade to get this.

what package do you have?

Jeff Hetrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458968#Comment_458968

Can't get through my study this morning due to multiple, total crashes... urrrgh [:@]

Sam DeSocio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/458968#Comment_458968

I got bronze but I just picked up the 2 crossgrades 4&5 thanks.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459013#Comment_459013

Can't get through my study this morning due to multiple, total crashes... urrrgh

If these are ones you haven't reported previously, then start a new thread and attach some logs.

Jeff Hetrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459154#Comment_459154

Can't get through my study this morning due to multiple, total crashes... urrrgh

If these are ones you haven't reported previously, then start a new thread and attach some logs.

Thanks Dave - I don't know how to do logs. I have heard enough about that to assume the instructions for this are readily available if I do a little searching. With that in mind I will discontinue my participation here until I am prepared to produce the logs. I'm really of the opinion though that I'm getting the best I will get from this system (my computer). I love my Mac but going to Best Buy and getting an affordable, Windows PC with the hardware at or above the recommended requirements. I feel a little like I have filled the tank of a VW Bug with jet fuel. Logos Bible Software is worth a new computer and the Mac will go the the wife.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459638#Comment_459638

I have heard enough about that to assume the instructions for this are readily available if I do a little searching.

Here is the link http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging#Logos_5_for_OS_X

Please read carefully and upload the logs.

Jeff Hetrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/459678#Comment_459678

I have heard enough about that to assume the instructions for this are readily available if I do a little searching.

Here is the link http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging#Logos_5_for_OS_X

Please read carefully and upload the logs.

Thank you sir!

Jeff Hetrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/461942#Comment_461942

Well, for the record I bought a new MacBook Pro and not only did Logos download and complete Indexing (Diamond Library plus several additional purchases in my library) in about 3 hours - It's lightning fast, smooth, not a single glitch so far.

MacBook Pro 15", i7 processor, 8GB RAM, SSD

Works Great!!!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463282#Comment_463282

That's great. Thanks for the feedback, Jeff.