Accordance 8
Comments
-
WilliamRBaldwinJr said:
I just bought a Mac and the Logos Mac Engine. I am soooooooooooo disappointed with Mac for Logos. Logos should have never released the Mac version until it was 100% comparable with the PC version and from what I understand the fixes to make it comparable is a long, long, long way out. Did I say a long way out? I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. Anybody have any experience, advice, thoughts on Accordance??
William
This forum is owned by Logos. They do not look with favor on discussions promoting a competitor's product. Go to http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/ and ask your question. I—and many others—will be glad to respond to you there.
Jack
0 -
To all: Ruben Gomez has a blog that is very helpful where he reviews Logos and other Bible software programs frequently. William, you could check it out here:
http://www.bsreview.org/blog/?s=Accordance
He also has a link for Logos for Mac tutorials here:
http://www.bsreview.org/blog/2008/12/logos-for-mac-video-tutorials.html
0 -
William, Jack is right. This is probably not the most appropriate place for such a discussion. I have both Accordance as well as Logos for the Mac. I use both, but Logos to a lesser degree. If you'd like to email me offline at RMansfield@mac.com, I'd be glad to have a discussion with you.0
-
William, the Mac version was released in response to existing users who requested a simple "reader" version be released. It was not done to make you happy or unhappy, it was done for existing users who kept asking.
I for one am pleased with the early release. I now do 99.9% of everything without having to start up Windows on my Mac.
As to your title of this thread and promotion for the other company....
No matter your reason for posting, I am always surprised at how easily Christians eschew the concepts of respect and courtesy when on the interest or when it serves their personal interest.
Truly truly sad.0 -
WilliamRBaldwinJr said:
I just bought a Mac and the Logos Mac Engine. I am soooooooooooo disappointed with Mac for Logos. Logos should have never released the Mac version until it was 100% comparable with the PC version and from what I understand the fixes to make it comparable is a long, long, long way out. Did I say a long way out? I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. Anybody have any experience, advice, thoughts on Accordance??
If you search these forums, you will see a number of threads about Logos for Mac, the good, the bad and the ugly.
To summarize what these posts state and feedback from Bob (CEO), they put this version 1.0 out to give Mac users the ability to read use Logos in native OSX with the features that the majority of users use. Logos for Windows is currently undergoing a major rewrite and rather than bring the Mac version up to the same capabilities of the current Windows version, they are focusing on small improvements to the Mac version 1.0 and working to release the next major Mac version out at the same time as the next major Windows version.
Aside from the desire to have it all today, I can appreciate this strategy and would rather the next major release of the Mac software to be in step with the Windows version rather than always playing catch up.
So we wait and see. Logos for Mac 1.2 is a whole lot better than 1.0, but lets also keep in mind that this is version 1.x and has been out less than a year. So in software terms, it is in its infancy.
If you can't wait, then the other product may be what you need. I like their use of a single workspace with windows in it and have pushed for a similar architecture (along with others) on this forum. Unfortunately, most of the materials that I am currently using in my studies are not available in the other product and therefore, Logos, even with a Mac software package in its infancy, still wins out. Also, if I need to really go for it, I run Logos for Windows under Fusion to take care of the items that I need from time to time.
0 -
JoanKorte said:
He also has a link for Logos for Mac tutorials here:
http://www.bsreview.org/blog/2008/12/logos-for-mac-video-tutorials.html
This is out dated. Here is a link to the tutorials: http://www.macbiblesoftware.com/support/videos/
Justin K.
Logos Ministry Development
360-685-4441
0 -
Mr. Miller,
What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice. My limited research has suggested that the "other" product was made specifically for Mac users. I knew nothing about this product until just a few days ago and my "interest" was looking for some direction from others. I am new to forums and I was told that under the Mac forum I would meet and talk with friendly people willing to help. But based on your comment to what you preceived was my "motive" that does not seem to be the case. I have been a PC user for many years and have just resorted to Mac. I invested a lot of my finances into Logos because I think highly of it but was never told when switching to Mac that it lacked some of the basic features that the PC version had, thus my frustration. Upon reading other posts it looks like others are frustrated as well. As I stated, my intent is not to promote another product as you preceived that I was doing. I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about. I now get it. Don't make any inquires that may offend some under a preconceived misconception of the writer for fear that they may be judged unfairly. I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum.
0 -
WilliamRBaldwinJr said:
Don't make any inquires that may offend some under a preconceived misconception of the writer for fear that they may be judged unfairly. I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum.
Hi William,
I really think this is a misunderstanding. You being new to the forum & having been advise to ask question/seek help from the forum, which you did. I do know some have asked for info about Bibleworks/ the "other product" and have received helpful info in the Newsgroup before it turned to the forum, but in such a way that was not promoting any of the other products. Usually one get the reason why it is best to stick with Logos & why in the long run Logos for Mac would be a worthwhile investment. I am not sure why the world is going Mac crazy[:D]
Writing sometimes is not a helpful medium of communication b/cos one may misunderstand your motives. That said i don't think you should take such a drastic step of not asking anymore question. We all do make mistake that is why pencils have eraser or computers have delete keys.
Regards Brother, no offence was meant – i do know the CEO & Logos are looking seriously into making Logos for Mac a great product. So my advice is be patient, in the long run you may be glad you did not give up on Logos.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
0 -
I used LOGOS for many years until I finally took the plunge to a MacBook Pro. I did run VMWare Fusion for a while so I could still access my LOGOS and BibleWorks software.
I ordered Accordance and installed it on the Mac but didn't really care for it at first. But the LOGOS for Mac engine just didn't do what I was used to doing with LOGOS under Windows. (Not ready for prime-time)
I went back and gave Accordance a closer look and now use Accordance 100% of the time. Still have LOGOS for Mac but haven't used it in over 6 months now.
Accordance just works the way I want it to work. There is NO going back....
Steve
0 -
WilliamRBaldwinJr, you wrote, "Mr. Miller, What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice"
If you want to know what the benefit of Logos for Mac is... ask here. Someone will help.
If you want to make feature suggestions... post them here. Logos will respond (sometimes).
But... what you did write was this... "I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. "
Please don't make a second post pleading innocence. You did not ask for help about using Logos for Mac, you came and said, "logos for Mac sucks" "I want something better" "Someone tell me about this other product and give me a good reason to switch to it" That is just flat out rude behavior sir and your motives don't change your behavior.
Now, your second post, had you started there, is much more reasoned. If you are disappointed and want some advice about using Logos Mac, great. But reread your first post... you came in with all guns blazing against Logos for Mac and asking on advice on switching to another software program.
In regard to your hurt feelings about my Christian charity, you wrote, " I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about."
This of course was in response to my comment which reads, "No matter your reason for posting, I am always surprised at how easily Christians eschew the concepts of respect and courtesy when it serves their personal interest. Truly truly sad."
...I wonder, is there a "godly" way to use Logos and an ungodly way to use it? I digress...
Anyway, I stand corrected in one thing. instead of expressing my sadness in reading the content of your post, I simply should have asked you to demonstrate more courtesy to your host, Logos, when making posts. The owner, VP and employees are Christians--your brothers and sisters in Christ. And even if you hate their software because it does not meet your needs and was not released on your timetable; my only request is that you should show more respect for the people behind it when you post.
Dear brother,
I am not questioning your motives.
I am not judging your heart.
I am not questioning your faith in Jesus.
I am suggesting a more tactful approach.
I hope you can overcome your hurt feelings and accept my post as an offer of gentle correction.0 -
Steve,
You have only made 2 posts on this forum and BOTH are talking about your switch to another program. If you found something that works better for your needs. More power to you. But those who are here, are interested in Logos not your personal preference for something else.
If there is NO going back, as you say, great. But please go and don't come back only to tell everyoe how much you prefer somthing else.
That is really rude and boorish behavior.0 -
-
Joe Miller said:
WilliamRBaldwinJr, you wrote, "Mr. Miller, What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice"
If you want to know what the benefit of Logos for Mac is... ask here. Someone will help.
If you want to make feature suggestions... post them here. Logos will respond (sometimes).
But... what you did write was this... "I am researching the Accordance bible software for Mac looking to abandon Logos. "
Please don't make a second post pleading innocence. You did not ask for help about using Logos for Mac, you came and said, "logos for Mac sucks" "I want something better" "Someone tell me about this other product and give me a good reason to switch to it" That is just flat out rude behavior sir and your motives don't change your behavior.
Now, your second post, had you started there, is much more reasoned. If you are disappointed and want some advice about using Logos Mac, great. But reread your first post... you came in with all guns blazing against Logos for Mac and asking on advice on switching to another software program.
In regard to your hurt feelings about my Christian charity, you wrote, " I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about."
This of course was in response to my comment which reads, "No matter your reason for posting, I am always surprised at how easily Christians eschew the concepts of respect and courtesy when it serves their personal interest. Truly truly sad."
...I wonder, is there a "godly" way to use Logos and an ungodly way to use it? I digress...
Anyway, I stand corrected in one thing. instead of expressing my sadness in reading the content of your post, I simply should have asked you to demonstrate more courtesy to your host, Logos, when making posts. The owner, VP and employees are Christians--your brothers and sisters in Christ. And even if you hate their software because it does not meet your needs and was not released on your timetable; my only request is that you should show more respect for the people behind it when you post.
Dear brother,
I am not questioning your motives.
I am not judging your heart.
I am not questioning your faith in Jesus.
I am suggesting a more tactful approach.
I hope you can overcome your hurt feelings and accept my post as an offer of gentle correction.I have to fully agree with Joe. He just said what was right and I think many of us felt it the same way after reading the post Joe responded to.
I would encourage you William "not to judge day before the evening" as our Czech proverb says. We are, I think, not long time before the new Logos version will be launched. I think it will make both PC and MAC versions much more similar than now. I would strongly recommend to wait with all the conclusions to that day. I used many Bible softwares and I am still to find something better and more complex than Logos. Of course it is just my personal opinion.
Bohuslav
0 -
I have to be honest. I "lurk" the forums, just as I did the newsgroup for years before. I cannot believe the criticism that this gentlemen has gotten for asking a question. First Jack comes out and speaks for Logos in stating that they do not look in favor on discussions "promoting" competitor's product... In no way did this guy promote Accordance or anything else! He simply asked for input in the correct forum filled with Mac users as a dissatisfied Logos owner, that cannot get what he needs out of the Mac Libronix platform. This, other than asking for input about another product is very common in the Mac forums and/or newsgroup posts.
Then Joe Miller is insinuating about the respectfulness and/or courteousness of William and talking about how truly, truly sad it is. Then after reading that this offended William, instead of addressing the offense goes on to misquote William with what Joe Miller wants to read out of William's post and gets on how rude he is, I have re-read the original post many times to be objective, but there was no disrespect or rudeness in that post. There is a frustrated consumer expressing himself on the forum of the business who he is a patron of.
Steve gets condemned because his two posts are about another product... Who really cares. Guess what this is a public forum that a business looking for a way to receive customer input; both good and bad; set up for not only the benefit of customers but of Logos.
If Logos did not want to here these comments they would have never set-up the forums, and a business that truly wants to grow, is going to hear a frustrated Mac customer, study their concerns and even check out the competition themselves to look at what the competition has for the Mac platform that they do not. That is how Logos will build the best bible study software package for not only Windows, but also Mac.
Be Blessed,
Frank
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
0 -
FrankSauer said:
There is a frustrated consumer expressing himself on the forum of the business who he is a patron of.
I hope i tried to be constructive. My reading of William is as yours, one who being frustrated was letting off steam & may not have expressed himself well. When i saw he had only written one post , i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Like i said in my post this is just a misunderstanding & William's subsequent response should be taken into consideration. In my line of work i have been trained to detect the difference between frustration & aggression( i may get it wrong), they both look alike but they are different.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
0 -
WilliamRBaldwinJr said:
Mr. Miller,
What I think is real sad is that you think you know what my motive is. Quite frankly my motive was not to promote another product, but to honestly and respectfully ask users for advice. My limited research has suggested that the "other" product was made specifically for Mac users. I knew nothing about this product until just a few days ago and my "interest" was looking for some direction from others. I am new to forums and I was told that under the Mac forum I would meet and talk with friendly people willing to help. But based on your comment to what you preceived was my "motive" that does not seem to be the case. I have been a PC user for many years and have just resorted to Mac. I invested a lot of my finances into Logos because I think highly of it but was never told when switching to Mac that it lacked some of the basic features that the PC version had, thus my frustration. Upon reading other posts it looks like others are frustrated as well. As I stated, my intent is not to promote another product as you preceived that I was doing. I was simply looking to Godly people for some Godly advice. What amazes and surprises me is how some Christians like to judge others without really knowing who or what they are all about. I now get it. Don't make any inquires that may offend some under a preconceived misconception of the writer for fear that they may be judged unfairly. I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum.
William
My main point in the response to your question was two-fold: (1) You will get a better analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of Accordance from the Accordance forum, or from Ruben Gomez (As Rich suggested) than you would from dedicated Logos users. (2) This forum does belong to Logos, and Bob has previously (in the newsgroups) his desire that we not use his forums to promote other software. It should be noted that before Bob posted that message the talk about Accordance had gotten out of hand (if anyone could believe that a thread would ever get out of hand [;)].)
Stick around, William, you will learn that we are really just one big, happy, loving family. Like any family, we sometimes irritate each other (in love, of course).
Jack
0 -
Let's be honest...all of us. Someone comes on a Logos Forum...designed to get information about Logos customer experience. They want to share their frustrations or even concerns...who knows maybe their likes. So they make their post. How would you name the post? Accordance 8?!? Seriously. No, there is definitely no agenda there.
Just because Burger King says "have it your way" doesn't mean I get to go order Taco Bell Volcano Nachos. Why go to Logos and ask about Accordance? Like what has been said, if you want to learn about Accordance go to the Accordance site. Maybe they do not have helpful forums there? I have been there twice and never posted, nor do I intend to. I have used Accordance and have a friend who swears by it.
As far as the question that was asked in the original post, it was not a Logos question. The question was an Accordance question. Joe was right in saying foul, poor form. But if you want an answer to that question. Accordance is a good program. It's not Logos. I like and perfer Logos better. I wish Logos for Mac was as feature rich as Logos for PC. It's not. We have hopes that it will be, but we don't know when...could be soon and it could be "a long way out" as you emphasized in your opinion.
As far as pointing out who has posted what and when, I think that is fair enough. The Logos forum, and many other forums, allow you to see what other posts or recent posts have been made. If someone wants to speak at the church I serve, or with a parachurch group I work with, we research them to make sure what they are doing and saying adds up. If someone on the Logos forum does nothing but post pro Accordance comments and negative Logos comments, then there is an issue of credibility. Like it or not.
And as far as the Logos forum. We are a family and we do sometimes agree and disagree freely with one another. I jumped on Jack C about a month and half ago as I got tired of his overly stated opinion on the old NG and the new forums. Sorry Jack (I did apologize before didn't I, if not, please forgive me). I was harsh (and absolute) in my wording/rebuking of an elder brother in Christ. You don't always complain about Logos:Mac!
So William, Steve and Frank...welcome to Logos. We will talk Logos...defend or complain. If you want to talk Accordance, take it to the appropriate forum...maybe http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/.
I have said this before...we are fighting (call it what you want) over BIBLE SOFTWARE!!! How childish? My son, who is five, does this when he says my FILL IN THE BLANK is better than your FILL IN THE BLANK. I don't like this. We are blessed to have options that benefit us as we serve the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
all about Christ,
David0 -
WilliamRBaldwinJr said:
I am new to forums and I was told that under the Mac forum I would meet and talk with friendly people willing to help.
Welcome to the Logos forums! ....... [:)] ..........I hope you don't shy away based on your first encounter. I have really been blessed from my many "encounters" here. My fellow posters have: encouraged me, criticized me, educated me, humored me, humbled me, reprimanded me (justly & maybe unjustly?) and sharpened my skills. I have benefited much more than just in the use of Logos Bible software. If you stick around you may have a different perspective down the road.
When I read your first post I thought, "Oh no. Here it goes...." To put it in a worldly analogy, it is like walking into a biker bar and yelling "Harley-Davidson's are only for wimps." - and then expecting to get out of the parking lot in one piece. After all, this IS a Logos forum. Considering the fact that Logos has been PC-only based software for most of it's long history and most Logos users are still running it on PCs, you should not be surprised to find there are some snafus with the Mac based version. It should also not surprise you to find a pit-bull type of response to a perceived attack on everyone's favorite Bible software. While this forum may be open to the public, it is still privately owned by Logos. It is no different than your church (whatever the denomination) from barring someone from preaching differing doctrines from the church pulpit.
WilliamRBaldwinJr said:invested a lot of my finances into Logos because I think highly of it but was never told when switching to Mac that it lacked some of the basic features that the PC version had, thus my frustration.
Frustration understood. [:@] As part of the Apple Developer Connection and Microsoft Developer Network I learned a long time ago NEVER expect the first version of anything to be everything you want it to be. Another analogy: In 1954 when my present church built it's first building it was small. As the decades went by and the numbers grew so did the building. Four years ago We completed a 6 million dollar structure that is already close to capacity on Sunday morning. Logos Bible software is expanding the tent to include the Mac world. This is a good thing. Some Linux users would welcome expansion in their direction too. During any massive project there will be inconveniences and frustrations. Remember you thought highly enough of Logos to invest a lot in it . Hopefully you will stick around long enough to see it was worth it.
If you must use different software to meet your needs, be thankful you have that choice. You will probably get friendlier responses criticizing Harleys in a Japanese bikers bar.... [B] .....Are there any??
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Pastor Steve Bramham said:
Accordance just works the way I want it to work. There is NO going back....
Steve
And then Steve yells, "Harley-Davidson's are only for wimps."
Run, Steve, Run..!! [6]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Matthew and David, thank you for your gracious but to the point posts. Yes, to be part of a family is a bumpy drive sometimes, but what a fun [:)]
Bohuslav
0 -
WilliamRBaldwinJr said:
I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum.
By unwritten policy (last I checked, and sometimes I wished it was written somewhere for the benefit of new uers) these forums are supposed to be used only for discussing Logos software. That said, you can see that the discussions move into the fringes of theology and yes, discussion about other products on the market (including windows).... so I wouldn't worry too much about it personally. Please do feel welcome to these forums and if find that you want to stick with Logos, please don't hold back from engaging on here, even if it results in a spirited exchange of views.
The reality is there are several frequent posters on here that use the product that you mention and you will see them also on their forums as well. The other product has a whole lot going for it and since moving to the Mac platform about a year ago, I have considered it more than once on days of frustration. Yet, what I need for my studies is not there and even if it was, I can't afford at this stage to invest in two Bible programmes.
Bottomline, just jump in the deep end of the pool with everyone regardless of what you choose. You might get splashed from time to time, but just splash back. ;-)
0 -
David Buckham said:
And as far as the Logos forum. We are a family and we do sometimes agree and disagree freely with one another. I jumped on Jack C about a month and half ago as I got tired of his overly stated opinion on the old NG and the new forums. Sorry Jack (I did apologize before didn't I, if not, please forgive me). I was harsh (and absolute) in my wording/rebuking of an elder brother in Christ. You don't always complain about Logos:Mac!
David
Now, as to my opinion of Logos Mac, I have been very critical of Logos Mac in the past, but a bit more restrained recently. At least, I think I have [*-)]. If I haven't said it before, I accept your apology, but I may have deserved a harsh rebuke [:D].
Jack
0 -
JackCaviness said:
David
Now, as to my opinion of Logos Mac, I have been very critical of Logos Mac in the past, but a bit more restrained recently. At least, I think I have
. If I haven't said it before, I accept your apology, but I may have deserved a harsh rebuke 
.Jack
Love you brother.
all about Christ,
David
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:WilliamRBaldwinJr said:
I understand now that this is not the place to ask for advice. Thanks anyway, I will now refrain from writing future question for fear I might offend someone. That is truly truly sad. As to the other posts, I appreciate your honest and friendly comments and directions that you have given me. I will never talk about the "other" product again on this forum.
By unwritten policy (last I checked, and sometimes I wished it was written somewhere for the benefit of new uers) these forums are supposed to be used only for discussing Logos software. That said, you can see that the discussions move into the fringes of theology and yes, discussion about other products on the market (including windows).... so I wouldn't worry too much about it personally. Please do feel welcome to these forums and if find that you want to stick with Logos, please don't hold back from engaging on here, even if it results in a spirited exchange of views.
The reality is there are several frequent posters on here that use the product that you mention and you will see them also on their forums as well. The other product has a whole lot going for it and since moving to the Mac platform about a year ago, I have considered it more than once on days of frustration. Yet, what I need for my studies is not there and even if it was, I can't afford at this stage to invest in two Bible programmes.
Bottomline, just jump in the deep end of the pool with everyone regardless of what you choose. You might get splashed from time to time, but just splash back. ;-)
Thanks Donovan,for your gracious comments to a new comer to the forum. Those who are new to the forum( where there is no written policy for the forum) will from time to time make mistakes about the true nature of the forum. I am glad of the change in tone towards this brother, while still acknowledging this is a Logos forum.
Regards Brother,
Ted.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
0 -
WAIT, WAIT, SO WHAT DO YOU DO WITH YOUR HUNDREDS (OR THOUSANDS ) INVESTED IN THE MAC - - AS I HAVE (AND AM FRUSTRATED)
ED O.
The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, & the Love of God, & the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you in fullest measure
0 -
WAIT, LET ME REINTRODUCE MYSELF; I JUST READ MYSELF & IT LOOKED PRETTY STUPID. TAKE TWO.
HELLO, I'M A SOMEWHAT NEW MAC USER & VERY NEW LOGOS GOLD USER. I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH LOGOS ON EITHER WINDOWS OR MAC, AND AM PRETTY RETARDED IN GENERAL WHEN IT COMES TO THE WHOLE COMPUTER WORLD. I AM FRUSTRATED BECAUSE I GUESS I WAS DELUSIONALLY THINKING THAT LOGOS SOFTWARE WAS GOING TO MAGICALLY TRANSFORM MY INABILITY TO MASTER THE COMPUTER & SOMEHOW COME EASY TO ME. I HAVE WASTED MULTIPLE DOZENS OF HOURS GETTING NOWHERE IN MY ENDEAVORS TO UTILIZE MY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF SOFTWARE TO DELVE INTO BIBLICAL RESEARCH. I AM SO DISAPPOINTED. I HAVE RETRACED MY STEPS & GENUINELY ATTEMPTED TO GO THROUGH EVERY TUTORIAL I CAN FIND & BUILD MY WAY UP FROM THE FOUNDATION - BUT HAVE STILL BEEN GREATLY STYMIED. CAN ANYONE SUGGEST A COURSE OF ACTION FOR ME? I LOVE THE LORD & SIMPLY WANT TO BE USED IN AREAS OF GOD'S GIFTINGS OF TEACHING IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. I HAVE BEEN ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE DESERT FOR SOME 25 YEARS NOW, OVER 20 SINCE GETTING OUT OF SEMINARY - AND AM STILL NOT IN MINISTRY & HARDLY BEING UTILIZED FOR GOD'S GLORY IN THE CAPACITY I BELIEVE HE HAD (AND HAS) CALLED ME ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO. ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED - I'M BARELY TREADING WATER AT THIS POINT. THANKS.... BLESSINGSThe Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, & the Love of God, & the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you in fullest measure
0 -
Sorry for all the CAPS on that former blog; I didn't realize how hard it would be on the eyes. Please forgive me. It won't happen again.
The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, & the Love of God, & the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you in fullest measure
0 -
I totally understand and have felt that way before with the plethora of resources that you have at your finger tips. I would suggest that you enroll in a distance learning course on the Bible. This could be casual or even towards a degree. Ideally, if the course is specially catered to using Logos software, this is a bonus. I think in an issue or two back of Bible Study Magazine some Bible college or seminary was offering courses on the Bible using Logos Bible software. Even if the course doesn't use Logos, you will find that the course work will really focus your use of Logos Bible software.
Anyhow, just a suggestion. Thanks for being open enough to express what you are feeling!
0 -
You guys all take yourselves too seriously. How many posts have I seen of people "correcting" anything and everything. We're all Bible nerds around here... don't get so uptight... who cares if the guys names it "Accordance 8" or "I think my Accordance software is able to beat up your Logos software"
Seriously who cares? Why correct it?
0 -
Chuck Lindsey said:
You guys all take yourselves too seriously. How many posts have I seen of people "correcting" anything and everything. We're all Bible nerds around here... don't get so uptight... who cares if the guys names it "Accordance 8" or "I think my Accordance software is able to beat up your Logos software"
Seriously who cares? Why correct it?
This thread is nearly a month old and was buried over time until the recent request for help in getting the most out of Logos, which brought it back to the top. So it's not so much about the original topic any more.
0 -
Hey Donovan, Thanks for the response & input. I'll try to look into something like that. Actually, I'm in the middle of something related to the "degree" portion which you alluded to. I attended Fuller Seminary in 1985 - 87 for my Masters in Theology. My oldest brother died shortly after I had started & I was consumed with getting back to NJ to be with my only remaining brother - I was somewhat blown out of the water for a time I suppose. I stayed at Fuller & veraciously consumed my courseload for a 13 month period & departed back to Jersey with only 3 classes remaining - having arranged with the Profs. to complete two of the courses which I actually sat in on (but legally could not get credit for more than the 23 credits per semester I was taking) , leaving me one Independent Study Research Paper I had also gotten permission for. Long story short, after getting back home to my other brother in Jersey & having our fourth child (and finding our home church had dissolved, leaving us quite out of sorts) , I found myself unable to study. Within the next year my brother died in a car accident, and the books stayed on the shelf for many years. Within the past half dozen years, my daughter was working on her Masters Degree & convinced me to look into finishing my Degree (those last three courses - 12 credits). Well, Fuller wants nothing to do with me & it seems those hundred some-odd credits have "expired" & are worthless. My present home church says they would ordain me & possibly use me on staff IF I finish my Masters Degree.... Great.... where's the GRACE you might ask? Well, that's been my disheartened question. So here I am finding myself trying to dig into Biblical & Theological studies from a whole new framework... the COMPUTER World. And I'm really frustrated, disillusioned, & wondering what God could possibly have in store for me (& what He can actually DO with me).
The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, & the Love of God, & the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you in fullest measure
0 -
Edward Otero said:
Hey Donovan, Thanks for the response & input. I'll try to look into something like that. Actually, I'm in the middle of something related to the "degree" portion which you alluded to. I attended Fuller Seminary in 1985 - 87 for my Masters in Theology
Dude, it sounds like you have went through quite a time. Do you have friends that can support you locally? I must confess, internet forums don't seem sufficient a times like this.
It also sounds like you have plenty of experience in Bible education, so I can't tell you anything more that you don't already know. You might see if another institution might recognise some or all your previous coursework with Fuller.
If it is of interest to you, the advertisement that I saw in Bible Study Magazine was in the Mar/Apr 2009 issue on p 24. It was "Computer Assisted Biblical Exegesis - BBL7713" with Tennessee Temple University - http://www.tntemple.edu I know nothing really about this institution, but found the idea of Logos centric course work an interesting option to keep in mind. It is taught by John Fallahee, who is a well known in the Logos world apparently.
I'll say a prayer for you. Please do keep posting here and we'll do our best to help as we can.
0 -
Edward,
Do you have some specific questions about using Logos for Bible study? What areas are causing your greatest struggle? How are you trying to use it for study? And just to clarify, you are using Logos for Mac?
0 -
JackCaviness said:
This forum is owned by Logos. They do not look with favor on discussions promoting a competitor's product. Go to http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/ and ask your question. I—and many others—will be glad to respond to you there
I do not know if anyone advocated this point yet, but yes Logos owns this forum and as a huge Logos lover, I can understadn this sentiment. The ability to critique and criticize Logos products should never be seen as disloyal or even in comparison to other products.
Thing is, we spend much money for logos products and to criticize it I think rather helps Logos. If Logos never sees the problems others have with the product, the ability to state our objections and concerns allows Logos employees to see how they can make things better(if they can) for those who are most loyal to Logos is a goo thing(for example my critiques of Bible Study Magazine).
As one who believes in freedom, I tend to thnk comparing against another product is a good thing. To not be able to critique and compare with othe products I would view as the company not wanting to have they type of discourse unless it is glowing of Logos' product as a bad thing. To mention another product for its strengths compared to Logos will only help making Logos a better product. Tos not allow a discussion of other products tend to make a company look petty and a certain view of self preservation and pride.
when Logos decides mentioning other products from other companies as bad and no longer acceptable, I will say my good byes and leave these forums.
freedom is never free and to curtail free discourse is always a bad thing.
0 -
David Emme said:JackCaviness said:
This forum is owned by Logos. They do not look with favor on discussions promoting a competitor's product. Go to http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/ and ask your question. I—and many others—will be glad to respond to you there
I do not know if anyone advocated this point yet, but yes Logos owns this forum and as a huge Logos lover, I can understadn this sentiment. The ability to critique and criticize Logos products should never be seen as disloyal or even in comparison to other products.
Thing is, we spend much money for logos products and to criticize it I think rather helps Logos. If Logos never sees the problems others have with the product, the ability to state our objections and concerns allows Logos employees to see how they can make things better(if they can) for those who are most loyal to Logos is a goo thing(for example my critiques of Bible Study Magazine).
As one who believes in freedom, I tend to thnk comparing against another product is a good thing. To not be able to critique and compare with othe products I would view as the company not wanting to have they type of discourse unless it is glowing of Logos' product as a bad thing. To mention another product for its strengths compared to Logos will only help making Logos a better product. Tos not allow a discussion of other products tend to make a company look petty and a certain view of self preservation and pride.
when Logos decides mentioning other products from other companies as bad and no longer acceptable, I will say my good byes and leave these forums.
freedom is never free and to curtail free discourse is always a bad thing.
Are you criticizing me or the policy Logos has stated on this forum? Frankly, I find this post to be a bit over-dramatic. The future of the Republic is not at stake here. This is not a matter of freedom of speech; it is a matter of a company objecting to the use of its medium for the promotion of a competing product. To me that is a reasonable request. Logos has never, AFAIK, requested that we abstain from pointing out perceived weaknesses in their product.
Would you feel free to place a billboard advertising Pepsi on the wall of a Coca-Cola bottling plant? If Coke removed your advertisement, would you then refuse to use any Coke products for eternity?
Jack
0 -
JackCaviness said:
Are you criticizing me or the policy Logos has stated on this forum? Frankly, I find this post to be a bit over-dramatic. The future of the Republic is not at stake here. This is not a matter of freedom of speech; it is a matter of a company objecting to the use of its medium for the promotion of a competing product. To me that is a reasonable request. Logos has never, AFAIK, requested that we abstain from pointing out perceived weaknesses in their product.
Would you feel free to place a billboard advertising Pepsi on the wall of a Coca-Cola bottling plant? If Coke removed your advertisement, would you then refuse to use any Coke products for eternity?
Jack
First as far as your coke analogy, from a business point of view-it all depends on how much they would make for carrying such an advertisement.
Knowing it is a Coke plant and you will hve to enter through a guarded gate, the only people who will see it is coke employees. How will this really affect the bottom line of Coke when only those who will see it is cokeemployees? Not very much.
Next, I am not aware of this policy and going to the forums and am unable to easily find it, mind pointing this out?
Not wanting to use this as a device to club people over the head with about freedom, as a disabled vet who shed his blood for this country-yes I tend to view any encroachment of freedoms as unamerican. In Tahoo groups when I see someone wanting to restrict the thoughts of another because of not being the prevailing thought of the group, though I disagree 1000% with theperson being restricted, I passionately defend the right of the adverse opinion to be spoken without reservation.
Example. While in Iraq, some of us in the platoon met at our CP to watch the movie Farenhiet 9/11 on a computer while monitoring our coms. Knowing the people there were just as conservative adfor the war as I was, we simply wanted to view the movie to see what was said and if he potrayed us fighting in an honest lite or a negative one. Had this LT come in and chastse us for watching this. My Platton Sgt(Now a Cpt and commander of a combat troop) told him if he did not like it, go away-we have the feeedom to view this film, what are we fighting for if not for freedom.
As I saw someone express fustration and ask about another program, I did not see this as disloyalty.
This to the understanding if Logos is that self conscience(which I do not believe they are) to see criticism and ask about anothe product in a forum where more than likely most in this forum are extremely loyal to Logos and those looking into a product will more then likely not wander into this online forum. In other words, most in this forum love Logos and probably invested quite a bit into Logos as my investment currently is 12K and will continue to grow as more products go on pre pub(where I have quite a bit on pre pub and once put that whichI want on pre pub will probably have 90% of that avaiable for pre pub on order).
O the other hand, I am looking into buying other bible software products and appreciate other experiances that can be realyed to us on the pros and cons.
It is not as if Logos is selling houses and talking about competition takes business from Logos. More then likely, I will have many biblesoftware from other companies and will still buy more from Logos then their competitors.
In business, not all competition is about brand loyalty.
Here is the question I pose: Is Concordance better then Logos on MAC or is it just as hard to use as Logos?
If you or someone can tell me honestly and perhaps that gentleman who proposed this might never buy the other product based on others experiances. does this mean he will never buy from Logos again? As any new product comes out and goes through its growing pains, I think most realize Logos will work out the bugs eventully and its MAC division as robust as the PC division.
Simply, yes I am criticizing you for your views when one did nothing but express fustration over Logos and ask about another product.
Me, seeing this or other products being touted or asked about-I do note see being disloyal-besides the fact we are the customers and the only point of loyalty is Logos should be loyal to us, its customers. Not to sound socialistic-but if it is not for us, Logos would have no business. In fact, while looking at other softwae, I was suprised to see Logos saleing a product that can be integrated with a competitor.
Competition is good and seeing someone express a criticism of the Lgos brandis a good thing. I guss it is whether you see the glass half full or half empty.
0 -
JackCaviness said:
Are you criticizing me or the policy Logos has stated on this forum? Frankly, I find this post to be a bit over-dramatic. The future of the Republic is not at stake here. This is not a matter of freedom of speech; it is a matter of a company objecting to the use of its medium for the promotion of a competing product. To me that is a reasonable request. Logos has never, AFAIK, requested that we abstain from pointing out perceived weaknesses in their product.
Would you feel free to place a billboard advertising Pepsi on the wall of a Coca-Cola bottling plant? If Coke removed your advertisement, would you then refuse to use any Coke products for eternity?
Jack
Yes, I agree. It is not a matter of freedom. It is rather matter of fairness or politeness (or how do you say it in English). It is that simple.
Bohuslav
0 -
Chris,
I guess I should pose one of my "root" dilemmas; which somewhat precede my problems having to do with the DETAILS of all the different intricacies of the many different features available in LOGOS in general. I have Logos Gold with many extras for both my Macbook & my Windows PC; and I would (optimally) like to be able to do my work on the Mac when out & about & around the house with my family (since I hate hermitting myself away from the family for hours on end when they're around) , but THEN be able to transfer that work seamlessly onto my PC for deeper & final fine tuning (that is, when & if I ever get to THAT point of expertise in utilizing all the features that will allow me to actually gather it all together). I do have LOGOS for Mac installed but also have the PARALLELS package installed with the adjoining Windows XP to afford me the capability of just such the possibility of bringing my laptop work over to my PC (hopefully without the problems associated with the differences between the two "systems." I may be somewhat computer illiterate (truthfully, RETARDED), but I did figure out on my own that there was probably going to be no way of making that transition possible at all unless I at least worked with the same OS. But, all that said, I guess I'm just having a really hard time with Windows on the Mac; I suppose it's defeating the whole purpose of having gotten the Mac in the first place. Plus, I figured my kids could "help" me on the Mac - - but I wasn't thinking that one through either, since my kids know less about the Mac than I do. I was going on the hearsay premise that the Mac was "for the younger generation" : duh, again, on my part since my kids are the only ones I know that aren't hardly into computers at all -- -- go figure since my oldest is a computer drafter/engineer. So anyway, given this scenario, what would YOU do? Hope I haven't made you dizzy with my "logic." Thanks for your time & concern. Any suggestions would be helpful. Be blessed!The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, & the Love of God, & the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you in fullest measure
0 -
I use Logos and Accordance and find them to be useful. I’m quite satisfied Logos
brought out their Mac version.
They have so many books to choose from which holds my interest and study
needs. Thank-you Logos.
0 -
Edward,
What exactly do you want to transfer from the Mac to the PC?
Perhaps this will be a helpful suggestion. I only use the PC version, but nevertheless I don't make much use of the notes function. Rather, I use logos as a library, but I store all the information I study in MS Word. So as I'm reading in logos, or running searches, or whatever, anything I find that is valuable, I am summarizing (and citing [:)])or cutting and pasting into Word. I think this would work in your situation. You wouldn't be transferring anything from the Mac to PC versions. You would do your work in the Mac version as you want to, and type/copy+paste into Word the information you're gleaning. Then, when you move to the PC for deeper and final fine tuning, you would simply run parallels and continue to enter information into that same Word document (or whatever word processor you use).
Does that make sense? Keep asking questions! Logos is a wonderful tool, and we all use it differently. Hopefully we can help you figure our a method that is beneficial for you.
0 -
David B Phillips said:
Edward,
What exactly do you want to transfer from the Mac to the PC?
Perhaps this will be a helpful suggestion. I only use the PC version, but nevertheless I don't make much use of the notes function. Rather, I use logos as a library, but I store all the information I study in MS Word. So as I'm reading in logos, or running searches, or whatever, anything I find that is valuable, I am summarizing (and citing
)or cutting and pasting into Word. I think this would work in your situation. You wouldn't be transferring anything from the Mac to PC versions. You would do your work in the Mac version as you want to, and type/copy+paste into Word the information you're gleaning. Then, when you move to the PC for deeper and final fine tuning, you would simply run parallels and continue to enter information into that same Word document (or whatever word processor you use). Does that make sense? Keep asking questions! Logos is a wonderful tool, and we all use it differently. Hopefully we can help you figure our a method that is beneficial for you.
Edward
David has given you some very good advice. You can set Parallels & Logos so that you share resources (other than PBB). That is a fairly simple operation. You can also share collections, but that is a more complex operation. Unfortunately, you cannot share work spaces which would probably be most beneficial for the situation you describe.
If you want to know how to share resources and/or collections, just ask.
Jack
0 -
David Emme said:
Next, I am not aware of this policy and going to the forums and am unable to easily find it, mind pointing this out?
There are only two informal guidelines for these forums. 1. Don't debate theology 2. Don't promote other products. The rules are not written out because Bob is adverse to writing out rules. This is not a perfect scenario, but I have been in other forums with highly codified rules which were dreadful. I guess the end result of this policy is that we encourage each other informally to respect these guidelines rather than having forum cops.
There is no rule about criticizing Logos. In fact, there have been some very, very long and threads about Logos over the years. Bob and Dan both read these forums and recently Dan admitted that sometimes they struggle when the comments become personal, yet they feel it would be wrong to defend themselves. In fact, Logos rarely intervenes in these forums on anything. Some don't like the ambiguity, but it works with me, so I keep coming back as a result.
[quote]Simply, yes I am criticizing you for your views when one did nothing
but express fustration over Logos and ask about another product.I have never met Jack personally, but for some time now I have read what he has to say in this and the other product's forums and in my opinion he is a gentleman. He is an advocate of the other product, but he respects the rules of this forum. As a result, I always have a lot of respect for what Jack has to say and feel that he is a treasure to both product's user communities.
0 -
David Emme said:
Not wanting to use this as a device to club people over the head with about freedom, as a disabled vet who shed his blood for this country-yes I tend to view any encroachment of freedoms as unamerican. In Tahoo groups when I see someone wanting to restrict the thoughts of another because of not being the prevailing thought of the group, though I disagree 1000% with theperson being restricted, I passionately defend the right of the adverse opinion to be spoken without reservation.
David
Thank you for your service. I truly appreciate the sacrifice that our service personnel make to give us the freedom to debate such issues. But that does not change the fact that you are over dramatizing this situation. This is not a freedom of speech issue. It is a commercial issue. Logos is paying for this forum, and the company has every right to dictate terms for its use. I did not criticize the original poster; I merely pointed out that he could receive better advice elsewhere.
BTW, I also am a veteran of 20+ years in the US Navy.
Jack
0 -
Donovan R. Palmer said:
I have never met Jack personally, but for some time now I have read what he has to say in this and the other product's forums and in my opinion he is a gentleman. He is an advocate of the other product, but he respects the rules of this forum. As a result, I always have a lot of respect for what Jack has to say and feel that he is a treasure to both product's user communities.
Donovan
I am almost at a loss for words [8-|]. I will try to live up to you compliment.
Jack
0 -
David Emme said:
Here is the question I pose: Is Concordance better then Logos on MAC or is it just as hard to use as Logos?
David
The product name is Accordance, and yes it is better on the Mac OS than Logos on the Mac. Whether it is easier to use or not depends upon the user. Both programs have some rather steep learning curves to reach their full potential.
Jack
0 -
I always find it interesting that in a forum full of people who are here to read the Bible, that so many don't have the integrity to respect a request and lack the courtesy to honor it. I guess that also explains why Logos also has to deal with people who steal their software. Ultimately, some people always feel their personal agenda is more important than respecting others.Donovan R. Palmer said:I guess the end result of this policy is that we encourage each other informally to respect these guidelines rather than having forum cops.
0 -
Edward Otero said:
So here I am finding myself trying to dig into Biblical & Theological studies from a whole new framework... the COMPUTER World. And I'm really frustrated, disillusioned, & wondering what God could possibly have in store for me (& what He can actually DO with me).
Edward
Helen Brown of Oaktree Software (makers of Accordance) just sent me an email and asked me to see if I could make personal contact with you to help you get familiar with the Mac. (Even if you will be using Logos)
If you think I can be of assistance, my email address is jackcav at triad.rr.com My telephone number is 336-626-0794. I live in Asheboro, NC.
Jack
0 -
-
Edward, if you want to be used by God, I will give you a couple insights.
First, God does not care which Bible software you use. Quite honestly, He does not care if you use any Bible software. Read the Bible, trust the Spirit, and find wise counsel.
Regarding the latter. Wise counsel is not hard to find.
First, don't seek out the counsel of men like Jack who do not demonstrate a respect for others. In this case, he was made aware of the Logos request to not promote other software on their forum. Logos does not make this a formal policy, but trusts that users of this site who claim the name of Jesus will instead demonstrate the maturity to respect their request. People who are ruled by their flesh, instead of the Spirit, will of course neglect this request, make excuses for their boorish behavior, and justify their arrogance. If you want to be used by God, don't trust people who abuse the good nature of others.
0 -
So many opinions are being voiced on this thread. I would love to see more facts, not just "this" is better than "that" dribble. If Logos is using these forums to better Logos, then give your opinion as to what needs to be improved.
If I go to the doctor I can't simply say I'm sick. There is no prescription or treatment options for being sick.
It also does no good to say I quit, which is how this whole thread started.
If you want to compare Logos to any other Bible program, go for it, but do it for the right reasons. I feel (yes this is an opinion) there is a ton of Accordance Bigotry. Maybe I am out of place, but seriously, get back to topic and purpose on the Logos forum.
all about Christ,
David Buckham0
