Help: Septuagint verse mappings?

I have limited familiarity with the Septuagint. I did know that there are some "off by one" verses in Psalms. Over the weekend I found out the hard way that there are other disagreements between standard English Bible versifications and what's in the Septuagint. For example, Prov 30:27 seems to be in Prov 24 in the Septuagint. I believe I was using one of the Lexham Septuagints (not at the computer in question right now).

Is there a Logos resource which has an exhaustive mapping of verses to address these issues? Is there a way to get hyperlinks from a search result, for example, to go to the correct verse in a Septuagint?

Thanks much,

Donnie

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Rich DeRuiter

I have limited familiarity with the Septuagint. I did know that there are some "off by one" verses in Psalms. Over the weekend I found out the hard way that there are other disagreements between standard English Bible versifications and what's in the Septuagint. For example, Prov 30:27 seems to be in Prov 24 in the Septuagint. I believe I was using one of the Lexham Septuagints (not at the computer in question right now).

Is there a Logos resource which has an exhaustive mapping of verses to address these issues? Is there a way to get hyperlinks from a search result, for example, to go to the correct verse in a Septuagint?

Thanks much,

Donnie

Someone from Logos can answer your mapping question, as I'm not sure if there even is such a resource.

But you can do what you're asking by linking a Bible with the LXX, I suggest a Bible that has an apocrypha. My preferred reference for that is the NRSV. Set up the NRSV and the LXX in parallel columns. If you set your NRSV as the Bible to search, then anything you click in the NRSV search results will take you to the correct location in both. At least that's how I've done it.

Ergatees

[Y]

I appreciated this note. This topic came up yesterday in our Church Bible Study. Thanks, Richard.

Ergatees

Donnie Hale

This topic came up yesterday in our Church Bible Study.

Now *that's* a church bible study I want to attend!

Donnie

Rick Brannan (Logos)

Someone from Logos can answer your mapping question, as I'm not sure if there even is such a resource.

But you can do what you're asking by linking a Bible with the LXX, I suggest a Bible that has an apocrypha. My preferred reference for that is the NRSV. Set up the NRSV and the LXX in parallel columns. If you set your NRSV as the Bible to search, then anything you click in the NRSV search results will take you to the correct location in both. At least that's how I've done it.

Logos actually compensates for all of this internally. That is, when you scroll, say, the LXX against the NRSV, the conversion happens automatically so that you should be scrolling like unit against like unit, not numerically equivalent book/chapter/verse string.

The Proverbs of LXX gets really messy, as does Jeremiah. Some spots in Genesis are weird too. There are all sorts of other places. It is incredibly detailed, and folks here (particularly Vincent Setterholm) have done scads of work and analysis so that the mappings used by Logos 4/5 are as accurate as we can make them.

But there is no resource that lists these overtly as they are different (and the mapping is different) depending on which versions you are comparing. You could check out the Anchor Bible Dictionary article on the Psalms for a listing of versification differences in the Psalms between the BHS and Rahlfs LXX (I believe).

Donnie Hale

Logos actually compensates for all of this internally. That is, when you scroll, say, the LXX against the NRSV, the conversion happens automatically so that you should be scrolling like unit against like unit, not numerically equivalent book/chapter/verse string.

Thanks for replying, Rick. Is this automatic compensation done when I have a layout set up as Richard outlined? E.g. a link set from NRSV to LXX?

What I experienced over the weekend was from a search result against an LXX (of a lemma) -OR- the LXX section of a Bible word study. When I clicked the link to Prov 30:27 (if recollection serves - "locusts have no king"), it took me to the ESV. This even though the search was not in the ESV, and the source of the BWS LXX section was not ESV. I can't figure out why it took me to the ESV when I had the LXX used for the search already open.

Thanks again,

Donnie

Brian Losabia

Is the ESV your highest priority/default Bible translation? If I were trying to get hyperlinks to open in a particular version, I would open that translation and then select the "send hyperlinks here" option to have it receive all the links.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

What I experienced over the weekend was from a search result against an LXX (of a lemma) -OR- the LXX section of a Bible word study. When I clicked the link to Prov 30:27 (if recollection serves - "locusts have no king"), it took me to the ESV. This even though the search was not in the ESV, and the source of the BWS LXX section was not ESV. I can't figure out why it took me to the ESV when I had the LXX used for the search already open.

My guess is that ESV is your prioritized Bible, so the links returned were for the same content, but to the ESV versification.

In search results, I think (not sure) if you click on the reference in left-hand column, you go to preferred Bible (reference converted). If you click on the instance in the text itself, you go to the specific text.

David Ames

Over the weekend I found out the hard way that there are other disagreements between standard English Bible versifications and what's in the Septuagint.

From Ex 36 to Ex 40 the LXX and the KJV are not in the same order

How do we explain the vast differences between the Hebrew and the Greek in Ex 36 to Ex 40?

Scrolls were made of animal hides stitched together. At some point a scroll fell apart in more then one place. In most of the story one can examine the story line and figure out what happened when. But did the walls get reported first or the Holy Garments? No way to tell a thousand years latter. So the scribes did the best they could and picked one to be listed first. There seems to have been three sheets lost.

Sort the excel file by ABC to get the LXX verses in KJV order or by FEG to get the KJV in LXX order
File name ex read xls [had posted this before but I don't know where]

1346.Ex Read.xls

DMB

For the curious (english / hebrew / greek versification) and to illustrate the value of a lot of SBL products, this from SBL's Handbook of Style:

7534.Hebrew+English+Bible+Chapter+Verse+Number+Differences.pdf

David Ames

For the curious (english / hebrew / greek versification) and to illustrate the value of a lot of SBL products, this from SBL's Handbook of Style:

Thanks but you are no fun [on that project]. As I was reading three Bibles in a year all at the same time. OT the KJV and the NASB to see how the Hebrew was translated into English and then Brenton's LXX to see the Greek. And then I got to the end of EX. I printed out the KJV and the LXX by verse and cut and rearranged them until I had them all matched up. then I pasted Chapter verse sub-verse into a spreadsheet. [The blank columns had the text.] Sort one way I was reading the KJV using the LXX order. The other way and I read the LXX in the KJV order. Finished the year comparing the NT NA/USB - NASB, TR - KJV and the Majority text - CAB [[each week I brought the print out of my work to church encouraging others to keep going on reading the Bible in a Year - finished three weeks early [that is what you do when you are seen as a church leader] ]]

DMB

I guess I should ask the obvious question: is this before or after Logos4?

Libronix still trains users to mentally keep track of the verses.

But I'm a big advocate of not using the crutch of matched versification. Too many first and second year seminary students just assume numbers in ancient times are in the same order as in modern times. It's really easy to see who's a 'newbie', counting the '10 words' and thinking hebrew '10' has 10 numbers.