Esv differences?
Are there two editions of the ESV? Today I had up 1 Cor 10:1-13 through Proclaim. The first few words of vs 1 were different than what everybody had in their bibles.
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Mike Tourangeau said:
Are there two editions of the ESV?
Bibles undergo changes every now & then. This is true for the ESV. Sometimes the changes are considered "major" and the translators/publishers make a distinction between two "editions" (i.e. NIV84 vs. NIV11). In this case, this was considered a "minor" change. All new versions of the ESV reflect the changes, including your copy on Logos.
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FYI - I believe if you look on youtube for DA Carson & ESV, you will find a video about this verse.
EDIT: I was remembering incorrectly. The video can be found HERE. The person who showed me the video was Dr. Wayne A. Grudem (I was attending a symposium on the work of Bible translation.)
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I believe that part of the reason is that we are all under the cloud. Thanks mircosoft.
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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Mike Tourangeau said:
Are there two editions of the ESV? Today I had up 1 Cor 10:1-13 through Proclaim. The first few words of vs 1 were different than what everybody had in their bibles.
Wikipedia has an ESV article => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version that mentions revisions in 2007 and 2011 so the ESV currently has three editions.
For awhile, the High Definition New Testament: ESV had the older 2007 ESV text, but the resource was updated in Nov 2012.
Have not updated Libronix 3 library so can see two ESV editions with different text in 1 Corinthians 10
Keep Smiling [:)]
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In Logos there are two copyright dates given in the introduction: 2001 and 2011
Logos updated the ESV last year to the 2011 version. [from the 2007 version?]
EDIT:[note to self - don't take so long looking something up - you keep getting beat]
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Note to KSFJ. Is this the first time 'ever' you made a screen print without the visual markup in their full glory? Daffodills. Irises. Lark spurs.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I wonder if there is a place to show the differences. I am ok with changes, but would like to have the option of which ESV to have up if I know the majority in the congregation have one edition....
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Mike Tourangeau said:
I wonder if there is a place to show the differences.
Not in Logos, as they've updated their resource to the 2011 edition without keeping the old one around. However here is a list of all the changes made in that edition:
http://d3p91it5krop8m.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/misc/esv_2011_changes.html
Someone has taken it upon himself to present them all in HTML format which is easier to copy and do stuff with:
http://centanium.com/2012/01/esv-2011-text-edition-complete-list-of/ (Old Testament)
http://centanium.com/2012/01/esv-2011-text-edition-complete-list-of_16/ (New Testament)
Here's a list of changes that were made in the 2007 from the preceding (original) edition:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/esv2007.html
And that site also has a PDF version of the 2011 changes:
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Mike Tourangeau said:
Are there two editions of the ESV? Today I had up 1 Cor 10:1-13 through Proclaim. The first few words of vs 1 were different than what everybody had in their bibles.
This is an old document that I created a long time ago. Crossway did not make any information public so I created it. This does not reflect anything that has been done in the last 10 years or so.
Verse
First printing
Fourth printing
Gen 5:28
When Lamech had lived 122 years, he fathered a son
When Lamech had lived 182 years, he fathered a son
Gen 5:29
* Noah sounds like the Hebrew for rest
Gen 26:31
In the morning they rose early and exchanged oaths. And Isaac set them on their way, and they departed from him in peace.
In the morning they rose early and exchanged oaths. And Isaac sent them on their way, and they departed from him in peace.
Gen 46:1
So Israel took his journey with all that he had and came to Beer-sheba, and offered sacrifices to the God of his father Isaac.
So Israel took his journey with all that he had and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices to the God of his father Isaac.
Exo 11:5
and every firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle.
and every firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the handmill, and all the firstborn of the cattle.
Exo 13:3
Then Moses said to the people, "Remember this day in which you came out from Egypt, out of the house of slavery, for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place. No leavened bread shall be eaten.
Then Moses said to the people, "Remember this day in which you came out from Egypt, out of the house of slavery, for by a strong hand the LORD brought you out from this place. No leavened bread shall be eaten.
Exo 13:14
And when in time to come your son asks you, 'What does this mean?' you shall say to him, 'By strength of hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, from the house of slavery.
And when in time to come your son asks you, 'What does this mean?' you shall say to him, 'By a strong hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, from the house of slavery.
Exo 34:28
So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Num 11:8
The people went about and gathered it and ground it in hand-mills or beat it in mortars and boiled it in pots and made cakes of it. And the taste of it was like the taste of cakes baked with oil.
The people went about and gathered it and ground it in handmills or beat it in mortars and boiled it in pots and made cakes of it. And the taste of it was like the taste of cakes baked with oil.
Deu 7:2
* (1) That is, set apart (devoted) as an offering to the Lord (for destruction)
* (1) That is, set apart (devote) as an offering to the Lord (for destruction)
Deu 10:4
And he wrote on the tablets, in the same writing as before, the ten commandments that the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. And the LORD gave them to me.
And he wrote on the tablets, in the same writing as before, the Ten Commandments that the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. And the LORD gave them to me.
Deu 19:4
This is the provision for the manslayer, who by fleeing there may save his life. If anyone kills his neighbor unintentionally without having hating him in the past -
This is the provision for the manslayer, who by fleeing there may save his life. If anyone kills his neighbor unintentionally without having hated him in the past -
Deu 24:7
If a man is found stealing one of his brothers, the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
If a man is found stealing one of his brothers, of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
Deu 29:15
but with whomever is standing here with us today before the LORD our God, and with whomever is not here with us today.
but with whoever is standing here with us today before the LORD our God, and with whoever is not here with us today.
Jos 15:36
Sha-araim, Adithaim, Gederah, Gederothaim: fourteen cities with their villages.
Shaaraim, Adithaim, Gederah, Gederothaim: fourteen cities with their villages.
Jdg 18:7
* (1) Compare 18:18; the meaning of the Hebrew clause is uncertain
* (1) Compare 18:10; the meaning of the Hebrew word is uncertain
2Sa 13:12
* (1) Or humiliate; also verses 14, 22
* (1) Or humiliate; also verses 14, 22, 32
1Ki 6:7
When the house was built, it was with stone prepared at the quarry, so that neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron was heard in the temple while it was being built.
When the house was built, it was with stone prepared at the quarry, so that neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron was heard in the house while it was being built.
2Ch 15:7
But you, take courage! Do not let you hands be weak, for your work shall be rewarded."
But you, take courage! Do not let your hands be weak, for your work shall be rewarded."
2Ch 31:16
except those enrolled by genealogy, males from three years old and upwards - all who entered the house of the LORD as the duty of each day required - for their service according to their offices, by their divisions.
except those enrolled by genealogy, males from three years old and upward - all who entered the house of the LORD as the duty of each day required - for their service according to their offices, by their divisions.
2Ch 31:17
The enrollment of the priests was according to their fathers' houses; that of the Levites from twenty years old and upwards was according to their offices, by their divisions.
The enrollment of the priests was according to their fathers' houses; that of the Levites from twenty years old and upward was according to their offices, by their divisions.
2Ch 34:13
were over the burden bearers and directed all who did work in every kind of service, and some of the Levites were scribes and officials and gatekeepers.
were over the burden-bearers and directed all who did work in every kind of service, and some of the Levites were scribes and officials and gatekeepers.
Job 40:15
* (1) Possibly the hippopotamus
* (1) A large animal, exact identity unknown
Job 41:1
* (1) Ch 40:25 in Hebrew (2) Possibly the crocodile
* (1) Ch 40:25 in Hebrew (2) A large sea animal, exact identity unknown
Pro 26:10
Like an archer who wounds everybody is one who hires a passing fool or drunkard.
Like an archer who wounds everyone is one who hires a passing fool or drunkard.
Isa 30:27
Behold, the name of the LORD comes from far, burning with his anger, and in thick rising smoke;
Behold, the name of the LORD comes from afar, burning with his anger, and in thick rising smoke;
Isa 37:11
* (1) That is, set apart (devoted) as an offering to the Lord (for destruction)
* (1) That is, setting apart (devoting) as an offering to the Lord (for destruction)
Isa 41:20
that men may see and know, may consider and understand together, that the hand of the LORD has done this, the Holy One of Israel has created it.
that they may see and know, may consider and understand together, that the hand of the LORD has done this, the Holy One of Israel has created it.
Isa 60:4
Lift up your eyes all around, and see; they all gather together, they come to you; your sons shall come from far, and your daughters shall be carried on the hip.
Lift up your eyes all around, and see; they all gather together, they come to you; your sons shall come from afar, and your daughters shall be carried on the hip.
Jer 31:8
Behold, I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the farthest parts of the earth, among them the blind and the lame, the pregnant woman and her who is in labor, together; a great company, they shall return here.
Behold, I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the farthest parts of the earth, among them the blind and the lame, the pregnant woman and she who is in labor, together; a great company, they shall return here.
Jer 44:7
And now thus says the Lord GOD of hosts, the God of Israel: Why do you commit this great evil against yourselves, to cut off from you man and woman, infant and child, from the midst of Judah, leaving you no remnant?
And now thus says the Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel: Why do you commit this great evil against yourselves, to cut off from you man and woman, infant and child, from the midst of Judah, leaving you no remnant?
Eze 23:40
They even sent for men to come from far, to whom a messenger was sent; and behold, they came. For them you bathed yourself, painted your eyes, and adorned yourself with ornaments.
They even sent for men to come from afar, to whom a messenger was sent; and behold, they came. For them you bathed yourself, painted your eyes, and adorned yourself with ornaments.
Eze 41:7
And it became broader as it wound upward to the side chambers, because the temple was enclosed upward all around the temple. Thus the temple had a broad area upwards, and so one went up from the lowest story to the top story through the middle story.
And it became broader as it wound upward to the side chambers, because the temple was enclosed upward all around the temple. Thus the temple had a broad area upward, and so one went up from the lowest story to the top story through the middle story.
Dan 11:44
* (1) That is, set apart (devoted) as an offering to the Lord (for destruction)
* (1) That is, set apart (devote) as an offering to the Lord (for destruction)
Hos 7:16
They return, but not upwards;
They return, but not upward;
Joe 1:8
* (1) Or young woman
Joe 2:17
* (1) The meaning of the Hebrew line is uncertain
* (1) Or reproach, that the nations should rule over them
Joe 2:20
* (1) Hebrew face (2) Hebrew end
* (1) Hebrew face (2) Hebrew his end
Joe 3:17
So you shall know that I am the LORD your God, who dwell in Zion, my holy mountain. And Jerusalem shall be holy, and strangers shall never again pass through it.
So you shall know that I am the LORD your God, who dwells in Zion, my holy mountain. And Jerusalem shall be holy, and strangers shall never again pass through it.
Mat 1:7
* (1) some manuscripts read Asa; also verse 8
* (1) Asaph is probably an alternate spelling for Asa; some manuscripts read Asa; also verse 8
Mat 1:10
* (1) Some manuscripts Amon; twice in this verse
* (1) Amos is probably an alternate spelling for Amon; some manuscripts read Amon; twice in this verse
Luk 17:7
Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come at once and sit down at table'?
Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come at once and recline at table'?
Joh 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except him who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
Joh 3:15
* (1) Some interpreters hold that the quotation continues through verse 21
* (1) Some interpreters hold that the quotation ends at verse 15
Joh 6:46
not that anyone has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.
not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.
Act 11:20
* (1) That is, Greek-speaking Jews
* (1) Or Greeks (that is, Greek-speaking non-Jews)
Act 17:34
But some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.
But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.
Act 27:28
* (1) About 120 feet; a fathom (Greek orguia) was about 6 feet or 2 meters (2) About 90 feet (see previous note)
Rom 3:9
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin,
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
2Co 10:4
For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments
For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.
2Co 10:5
and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
We destroy arguments, and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
Gal 2:19
For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ.
For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.
Gal 2:20
It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Eph 3:15
* (1) Or fatherhood
* (1) Or fatherhood; the Greek word patria is closely related to the word for Father in verse 14
Phi 2:7
but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form,
but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Phi 2:8
he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Heb 9:13
* (1) Or For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctifies
Jam 1:18
Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creation.
Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jam 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
1Pe 1:6
In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, as was necessary, you have been grieved by various trials,
In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials,
1Jo 3:2
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we will be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
1Jo 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whomever has been born of him.
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
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Mike Tourangeau said:
I wonder if there is a place to show the differences. I am ok with changes, but would like to have the option of which ESV to have up if I know the majority in the congregation have one edition....
Suggest posting ESV edition question in Proclaim forum => http://community.logos.com/forums/94.aspx
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Rosie Perera said:
Not in Logos, as they've updated their resource to the 2011 edition without keeping the old one around.
Is this standard policy for all Bible versions with Logos? It would make more sense to me if they would at least provide the option to keep past editions of texts that have been purchased.
It can be quite confusing for the average user who comes across different editions of the same text. In the "old days" it was quite easy to say that "I'm reading from the 'authorized' version" or whatever version but now you must give the version title along with the edition. I have especially found this frustrating for average people who use the NIV. I commonly ask what edition you are reading and most people are not even aware that there are different editions of a version even though there are major differences between the NIV84 and the NIV11.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:Rosie Perera said:
Not in Logos, as they've updated their resource to the 2011 edition without keeping the old one around.
Is this standard policy for all Bible versions with Logos?
I don't know what Logos's standard policy is. They aren't big on standard policies in general. They tend to kind of shoot from the hip, until people complain about things.
They did let people who already owned the NIV84 keep that when they upgraded to NIV11, rather than merely slipstreaming the changes into the existing files like they did with the ESV. But the NIV84 is no longer sold and no longer available through Logos.
I don't know what they've done in the case of other versions.
It would be a reasonable request to ask Logos to keep all these editions separate so people could see them side-by-side and know what has changed, and know which edition they're reading. As has been shown with all the fallout from the NIV --> TNIV --> NIV2011 debacle, not everyone believes that newer is necessarily better.
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Rosie Perera said:
It would be a reasonable request to ask Logos to keep all these editions separate so people could see them side-by-side and know what has changed, and know which edition they're reading. As has been shown with all the fallout from the NIV --> TNIV --> NIV2011 debacle, not everyone believes that newer is necessarily better.
I agree. Is there a formal way to do this?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:Rosie Perera said:
It would be a reasonable request to ask Logos to keep all these editions separate so people could see them side-by-side and know what has changed, and know which edition they're reading. As has been shown with all the fallout from the NIV --> TNIV --> NIV2011 debacle, not everyone believes that newer is necessarily better.
I agree. Is there a formal way to do this?
Post it in the Suggestions forum. And/or email suggest@logos.com. And/or post it on UserVoice and drum up votes for it using the forums.
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Rosie Perera said:
They did let people who already owned the NIV84 keep that when they upgraded to NIV11, rather than merely slipstreaming the changes into the existing files like they did with the ESV. But the NIV84 is no longer sold and no longer available through Logos.
With the NIV it was required by the publisher. A manager at a local Zondervan bookstore told me that they had to ship all 1984 NIV Bibles back to the publisher where they were destroyed. Seems to me they could have given them away as opposed to destroying them. Other software publishers were also required to remove the 1984 edition, and had to beg to be allowed to let users who had already purchased it to continue to use it.This is the problem with copyrights. Those who own them think they can do anything they want, with no regard for the end user. The NIV publishers thought that gender inclusive language was so important that they had to trick everyone into buying it. There was already a quite excellent gender inclusive version available (NRSV), not to mention the TNIV. Neither sold very well.The ESV publishers continued to revise the ESV for years without ever putting a revision or printing number in it which could identify it. As the chart I posted shows, there were some fairly big errors that made it into the first printing, it was obviously not ready for print yet. Don't get me wrong, I like the ESV. But how can we take it seriously as a "Standard" when it keeps changing?0 -
Rosie Perera said:
Post it in the Suggestions forum. And/or email suggest@logos.com. And/or post it on UserVoice and drum up votes for it using the forums.
Thanks, I just made the request on UserVoice.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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John said:
The ESV publishers continued to revise the ESV for years without ever putting a revision or printing number in it which could identify it. As the chart I posted shows, there were some fairly big errors that made it into the first printing, it was obviously not ready for print yet. Don't get me wrong, I like the ESV. But how can we take it seriously as a "Standard" when it keeps changing?
Well put. It is annoying!
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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This would make a cool visual filter of sorts. Not sure how that would be circulated or displayed best though.
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