Question about Luke 24:33-34
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GenesFISHer said:
By acceptance of what Paul wrote, 1 Cor 15.5, it would be clear that Peter was given the necessary information that would be needed to open Acts 1 & 2, thus making the Apostles a specialized Apostleship. (cf:here Luke 24.12 - he went home....).
Hope this helps....
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David Paul said:
It's not so much Important as to "when" but the fact that He did, and it is mentioned more that once. So the Biblical evidence stands that Jesus-resurrected, did in fact do.....Please note that if you really did research on the subject, that I fail to see how it could not be, Peter was the one who Spoke in Acts 1/2.....see also: Acts 10:34-43
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...quite right.
And not everyone will see the emperor's new clothes.
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My question is: When/why/how did the "tradition" of the resurrection that Paul received and recited in 1 Corinthians 15 omit Jesus' initial appearance - i.e., to Mary Magdalene (longer ending of Mark and John) or to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew)?
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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That's easy, Eric.
If you ask our not-hopelessly-egalitarian pastor, it's because the John's (Mark and St.) used the Mary's to demonstrate that even hopelessly unreliable witnesses saw Jesus. If the accounts were 'made up' they would have used respected and dependable witnesses.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
That's easy, Eric.
If you ask our not-hopelessly-egalitarian pastor, it's because the John's (Mark and St.) used the Mary's to demonstrate that even hopelessly unreliable witnesses saw Jesus. If the accounts were 'made up' they would have used respected and dependable witnesses.
Thank you for reminding me to modify my profile signature.
But I don't think your response answers my question. At best it seems to be supposition/conjecture.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Eric ... we both read the same text. It is what it is (as you point out). Everything after that is indeed 'supposition/conjecture'. Not words most ecclesiatical leaders would prefer, but none the less accurate.
My personal 'conjecture' and 'supposition' is that there's more to the story that the gospel writers didn't include ... starting with why two intelligent strong-willed women would bring spices to a sealed tomb, for a body that had already received overwhelming amounts of spices, and after decomposition of 2-3 days (Martha > Lazarus), knowing full well the seal was far beyond their capacity to move, and nasty, smelly badly-behaved, gentile Roman soldiers being camped out there, and that the whole thing was 'unclean' to the max per the Law. I'd assume they already knew the answer, in contrast to the disciples.
EDIT: Nice change to your profile signature! My belief is that virtually all apologetic proofs fail regarding Jesus with the exception of one: women equal to men relative to the divine. Revolutionary then; revolutionary now.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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There's always the prophetic reason...
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Eric Weiss said:
My question is: When/why/how did the "tradition" of the resurrection that Paul received and recited in 1 Corinthians 15 omit Jesus' initial appearance - i.e., to Mary Magdalene (longer ending of Mark and John) or to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew)?
DMB said:That's easy, Eric.
If you ask our not-hopelessly-egalitarian pastor, it's because the John's (Mark and St.) used the Mary's to demonstrate that even hopelessly unreliable witnesses saw Jesus. If the accounts were 'made up' they would have used respected and dependable witnesses.
You can start in Acts 5:33-42...
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Probably you already have. Done.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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David Paul said:
...quite right.
And not everyone will see the emperor's new clothes.
Absolutely correct.
I remember one frosty morning, I was in the stand about an hour before sunrise, I sat there wondering how icey the morning was going to be due to the weather report. I knew that it would be a bright and shiny morning, it always is when there is frost and the sun comes up, little did I know that this particular morning was going to be different. As I waited in the wee hours of the morning I started to meditate on the Glories of Heaven and the Brightness of the Throne, the possibility of seeing God in the Holiest of Holies as His Glory is Radiating amonst the Heavens.....
The sun rose, the ice and frost crystalized beyond my wildest expectations - it was so bright that I had to shield my eyes till well after the sun had risen. The frost from the night had crystalized around every branch and every twig and every still clinging leaflet, the temperature had dropped to well below freezing and created a most Glorious sight......
So much so that when the Brilliance of the sun crested over the mountaintop that the magnification was more than the naked eye could even fathom to Behold. The Brightness lite the valley all the way up and past where I was perched, the Illumination was so immense that from the moment that the sun started to be filtered thru the crystals that each reflection had gotten Brighter and more Radiant, again to the point that I had to shield my eye's for fear of being blinded from this splendid spectacle.
I turned on stand hoping to gain some relief, but the illumination was so permeating that there was no shadow wherein which I could find comfort or relief, it penetrated all around.
When I did eventually get relief and realizing that no animal was even stirring about, I came down the mountain, all the while in travel contemplating and meditating on what I was allowed to view. I can only fathom the Beauty that awaits us..........
So yes, some get to see the Emperor's new clothes.......
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Josh said:
It has to do with the timing of the resurrection and the amount of time he was in the grave. You can search it out yourself, if you know what to look for.
My point is, Denise's "hmmms" about the motivations of the women has less to with them and more to do with YHWH's purpose.
R4M has eyes to see...so he says...get him to explain it to you.
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Room4more said:Eric Weiss said:
My question is: When/why/how did the "tradition" of the resurrection that Paul received and recited in 1 Corinthians 15 omit Jesus' initial appearance - i.e., to Mary Magdalene (longer ending of Mark and John) or to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew)?
DMB said:That's easy, Eric.
If you ask our not-hopelessly-egalitarian pastor, it's because the John's (Mark and St.) used the Mary's to demonstrate that even hopelessly unreliable witnesses saw Jesus. If the accounts were 'made up' they would have used respected and dependable witnesses.
You can start in Acts 5:33-42...
i have no idea what that passage in Acts has to do with Paul omitting the appearance to the woman/women as Christ's first resurrection appearance.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Eric Weiss said:Room4more said:Eric Weiss said:
My question is: When/why/how did the "tradition" of the resurrection that Paul received and recited in 1 Corinthians 15 omit Jesus' initial appearance - i.e., to Mary Magdalene (longer ending of Mark and John) or to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew)?
DMB said:That's easy, Eric.
If you ask our not-hopelessly-egalitarian pastor, it's because the John's (Mark and St.) used the Mary's to demonstrate that even hopelessly unreliable witnesses saw Jesus. If the accounts were 'made up' they would have used respected and dependable witnesses.
You can start in Acts 5:33-42...
i have no idea what that passage in Acts has to do with Paul omitting the appearance to the woman/women as Christ's first resurrection appearance.
Oh my:
The resurrection of Christ was a fact to be proved, like all other facts, by competent and credible witnesses.
As for the Church of Corinth: Paul, therefore, appeals to the witnesses who had attested, or who yet lived to attest, the truth of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus; and shows that it was not possible that so many witnesses should have been deceived.
As this was not the first time in which the evidence had been stated to them, and as his purpose was merely to remind them of what they had heard and believed, he does not adduce all the witnesses to the event, but refers only to the more important ones.
-He does not, therefore, mention the woman to whom the Saviour first appeared;
-nor does he refer to all the times when the Lord Jesus manifested himself to his disciples.
Also note that he does not refer to them in general merely, but mentions names, and refers to persons who were then alive, who could attest the truth of the resurrection. It may be observed, also, that Paul observes probably the exact order in which the Lord Jesus appeared to the disciples, though he does not mention all the instances. Notice the account of the persons to whom the Lord Jesus appeared after his resurrection, and the order in which it was done..........
So if Paul's accounts were commonplace to previous events, as in Acts 5, they would have faded into the mist.............
It also does not seem likely at all that Peter, or the disciples, were lying. We remember that most of these individuals paid for their faith with their lives. Peter in particular was probably crucified in Rome during the reign of the Emperor Nero (1 Clement 5). If he had made up his experience of the resurrected Christ, surely he would have confessed his lie as he faced death. But he did not, because he was not lying.
Indeed, we can probably identify two points when the continued existence of the Christian movement was most vulnerable. The first was immediately following the crucifixion. Other Jewish messianic movements would come and go, their messiahs crucified by the Romans or otherwise lost to time. But this movement survived despite the death of its Messiah. The resurrection is the reason. It turned a group of scared, hiding followers into bold proclaimers of a renewed message.
Hope this helps.....
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I still don't see the connection with that Acts passage - did you cite the right passage? - and am not convinced that explains Paul's failure to mention the women.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Eric Weiss said:
I still don't see the connection with that Acts passage - did you cite the right passage? - and am not convinced that explains Paul's failure to mention the women.
Well lets read yours before you refuse mine.....shall we:
[EDIT: there is a connection- do you know who Paul IS? Acts 22.3-5 / Acts 5:33- ]
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Eric Weiss said:Room4more said:
You can start in Acts 5:33-42...
i have no idea what that passage in Acts has to do with Paul omitting the appearance to the woman/women as Christ's first resurrection appearance.
The answer, of course, is nothing. But the word "apostle" was used at least once in that pericope...and R4M has a fixation on that word...so he had you read the passage in his goose-chase quest to convince you and the world that his phantom has bones.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:Eric Weiss said:Room4more said:
You can start in Acts 5:33-42...
i have no idea what that passage in Acts has to do with Paul omitting the appearance to the woman/women as Christ's first resurrection appearance.
The answer, of course, is nothing. But the word "apostle" was used at least once in that pericope...and R4M has a fixation on that word...so he had you read the passage in his goose-chase quest to convince you and the world that his phantom has bones.
Thank-you david for, again, such an insightful and contributing comment, it is so encouraging as to how you can put the Scriptures together to show the fluency and continuity. It just so amazing and awesome....
Looking forward to many more.......
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Room4more said:
Thank-you david for, again, such an insightful and contributing comment, it is so encouraging as to how you can put the Scriptures together to show the fluency and continuity. It just so amazing and awesome....
The real fireworks show has not been scheduled at this time. However, take your vitamins and don't step out into traffic--you will want to attend.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Room4more said:Eric Weiss said:
I still don't see the connection with that Acts passage - did you cite the right passage? - and am not convinced that explains Paul's failure to mention the women.
Well lets read yours before you refuse mine.....shall we:
[EDIT: there is a connection- do you know who Paul IS? Acts 22.3-5 / Acts 5:33- ]
Paul? Never heard of him. Oh, wait... Didn't he sing with a guy named Peter and a gal named Mary?
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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yes it is a shame that "Mary" died....
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I have to go fold the laundry...by the way how many days was it the Paul spent w/Peter and no other Apostle?
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Long enough to get the job done.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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R4M ... being a sharpie on greek, you probably meant to say 'saw no other apostle except for James'. So at least he saw the apostle James.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
R4M ... being a sharpie on greek, you probably meant to say 'saw no other apostle except for James'. So at least he saw the apostle James.
[time-lapsed]
I have to go fold the laundry...by the way how many days was it the Paul spent w/Peter and εἶδον / ὁράω no other Apostle? except James.
Thanks.
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