Learn Hebrew & Greek Video sets still viable in L5?

I'm specifically wondering about the Hebrew side. I heard that they are now essentially "broken" because of the change in the morphology from AF to Lexham...any truth to that? Is there any reason pertaining to lack of utility why I should not get these videos now? And if so, is Logos planning an update for use with L5?

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Unix

I have it and both L4 and L5 but I know no Hebrew. Yeah I guess they will update it eventually (they said something like that) but that's probably going to take a while:

And if so, is Logos planning an update for use with L5?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I heard that they are now essentially "broken" because of the change in the morphology from AF to Lexham...any truth to that?

Thread => Visual Filter Frustration with Learn to Use Biblical Hebrew Videos

Keep Smiling [:)]

Graham Owen

Is there any reason pertaining to lack of utility why I should not get these videos now?

Hi David - I have been working through them again recently and as someone else has mentioned the changes between 4 and 5 mean that some of the examples do not work as shown in the video. This is frustrating at many levels but a rant will not answer your question...

What I discovered, through experimentation, is that there are other ways of collating the information in Logos 5 whilst not always straight forward it is possible. With this in mind I would say that if the linguistic insights that this type of study brings are of genuine interest and value to you in the short term and you are happy exploring Logos for alternative ways of achieving the results then the videos may be useful.

Main caveats are, as yet I have seen no formal confirmation from Logos that those with the older sets will receive a no charge upgrade to any replacement and you will spend time exploring Logos that you may end up considering unproductive.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/476858#Comment_476858

I should perhaps not speak on this, but maybe a sligthly discounted upgrade which if so would be a new policy, and a free upgrade sounds most unlikely:

Main caveats are, as yet I have seen no formal confirmation from Logos that those with the older sets will receive a no charge upgrade to any replacement

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/476858#Comment_476858

Main caveats are, as yet I have seen no formal confirmation from Logos that those with the older sets will receive a no charge upgrade to any replacement and you will spend time exploring Logos that you may end up considering unproductive.

I wish Logos would confirm this. I will be disappointed if there is not free or low cost upgrade.

Graham Owen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/476864#Comment_476864

maybe a sligthly discounted upgrade which if so would be a new policy, and a free upgrade sounds most unlikely

A big part of the challenge here is that I am not sure that we have had a similar position to this before as the videos in question were designed to help users get the most out of facilities in Logos 4 that relied on datasets that are now not part of Logos 5. It seems that the position of datasets is still a grey area within Logos, if they had been like traditional resources then we Logos 4 users would still have them today and there would not be an issue with the videos. If they were merely a software function we would have complained bitterly about the omission and campaigned for their reinstatement!

The reality is that the videos have lost their usefulness not because of a software change but because of the removal of a key dataset. Personally I would like to see that dataset reinstated but I am not expecting that to happen which leaves me with an expensive set of videos designed to help me exploit a dataset that I no longer have access to a problem compounded by the fact that Logos 4 does not coexist with Logos 5. Given the growing importance of datasets I think that we need a clearer statement from Logos on how they will be supported moving forward and specifically how our ownership of that datasets will transfer from one release to the next.

In the upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5 we have lost a resource i.e. the Anderson Forbes Morphology that was contained in a dataset.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/476896#Comment_476896

I didn't realize they had removed the AF material, I just thought the change to Lexham rendered the AF material defunct.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/476958#Comment_476958

I didn't realize they had removed the AF material, I just thought the change to Lexham rendered the AF material defunct.

That's what's so frustrating!

Lonnie Spencer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/476962#Comment_476962

I had the original languages in L4 with Andersen Forbes and did the simple upgrade to L5. I just performed a morph search using the Andersen Forbes Hebrew Bible and it used the Andersen Forbes morphology. I am not sure if this is what you are refering to as missing.

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/476858#Comment_476858

Is there any reason pertaining to lack of utility why I should not get these videos now?

Hi David - I have been working through them again recently and as someone else has mentioned the changes between 4 and 5 mean that some of the examples do not work as shown in the video. This is frustrating at many levels but a rant will not answer your question...

What I discovered, through experimentation, is that there are other ways of collating the information in Logos 5 whilst not always straight forward it is possible. With this in mind I would say that if the linguistic insights that this type of study brings are of genuine interest and value to you in the short term and you are happy exploring Logos for alternative ways of achieving the results then the videos may be useful.

Main caveats are, as yet I have seen no formal confirmation from Logos that those with the older sets will receive a no charge upgrade to any replacement and you will spend time exploring Logos that you may end up considering unproductive.

Yes, that would be frustrating. I'd like to sell my license to these videos (I know longer need them), but who would want to buy them if they are outdated now! [:S]

Hopefully, Logos allows for a free upgrade!

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477082#Comment_477082

I had the original languages in L4 with Andersen Forbes and did the simple upgrade to L5. I just performed a morph search using the Andersen Forbes Hebrew Bible and it used the Andersen Forbes morphology. I am not sure if this is what you are refering to as missing.

Hi Lonnie

AF morphology still works with the AF Bible but has been replaced by Lexham Hebrew morphology in reverse interlinear texts.

this means, for example, that visual filters created against AF in a RI will no longer work in L5.

Graham

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477092#Comment_477092

Is this primarily an issue of visual filters? Or is there a chink that keeps pertinent content info from displaying?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477110#Comment_477110

Or is there a chink that keeps pertinent content info from displaying?

Hi David

Sorry I don't understand this - could you expand please?

Graham

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477233#Comment_477233

Well, not having the videos, I'm kinda shooting in the dark based on what I hear others saying. Most of the issues people seem to be raising appear to be related to visual mark-up. While I can understand how this mechanism can help one learn these languages, I have to assume that there's more to these videos than just that. They may not have all the options available by design, but are they broken--functionally incapable of providing language learning?

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477240#Comment_477240

functionally incapable of providing language learning?

The videos are primarily designed to teach using the language tools provided in Logos—not the language itself. Therefore, if Logos changed the language tools between L4 and L5, the videos no longer show how to use them correctly.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477286#Comment_477286

Ah, gotcha. Thanks, that answers my question.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477288#Comment_477288

Ah, gotcha. Thanks, that answers my question.

Problem was that Logos marketing promised more language instruction than these videos deliver. I worked through about half of the Hebrew set, and found them to be quite useful in learning to use Logos, and mildly useful in learning the language. They do not replace convention language instruction.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477305#Comment_477305

I take it, then, that the videos are basically obsolete.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477849#Comment_477849

I take it, then, that the videos are basically obsolete.

I don't think anything changed in L5 which would make the Greek component invalid although clearly they wouldn't cover the L5 enhancements.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477849#Comment_477849

I take it, then, that the videos are basically obsolete.

Less useful would be my analysis. Exchanged email with Bob Pritchett who said that a new version was in the works, but he could not provide a date for completion.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477865#Comment_477865

Exchanged email with Bob Pritchett who said that a new version was in the works, but he could not provide a date for completion.

Did he happen to say what they were thinking about people that own the old ones? Any hope of an update for a reasonable price?

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477872#Comment_477872

Did he happen to say what they were thinking about people that own the old ones? Any hope of an update for a reasonable price?

Afraid I neglected to ask that question [:$].

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477902#Comment_477902

Did he happen to say what they were thinking about people that own the old ones? Any hope of an update for a reasonable price?

Afraid I neglected to ask that question .

Logos is usually pretty good about this kind of thing. I can see their providing customers who purchased the videos for L4 to get the updated ones for L5 for little more than the cost of shipping the DVDs.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478008#Comment_478008

Logos is usually pretty good about this kind of thing. I can see their providing customers who purchased the videos for L4 to get the updated ones for L5 for little more than the cost of shipping the DVDs.

This has been the case but it would be nice if someone from Logos would confirm this. We don't need specifics but a general statement would be great.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/477872#Comment_477872

Did he happen to say what they were thinking about people that own the old ones? Any hope of an update for a reasonable price?

I have experience with this exact product. I purchased this (DVD set back in June 0f 2010 and was part of the first shipment. When it was discovered that there were some problems with the content of some of the Hebrew discs. Logos mailed a set of the updated DVDs (as well as a link to download the content if I didn't want to wait for the DVDs in the mail) absolutely free.

While it isn't official word from Logos, I fully expect them to do what they did in the past to reward those who paid early as part of their "never pay for the same resource twice" policy.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/478205#Comment_478205

Did he happen to say what they were thinking about people that own the old ones? Any hope of an update for a reasonable price?

I have experience with this exact product. I purchased this (DVD set back in June 0f 2010 and was part of the first shipment. When it was discovered that there were some problems with the content of some of the Hebrew discs. Logos mailed a set of the updated DVDs (as well as a link to download the content if I didn't want to wait for the DVDs in the mail) absolutely free. While it isn't official word from Logos, I fully expect them to do what they did in the past to reward those who paid early as part of their "never pay for the same resource twice" policy.

I certainly hope so. I don't know why they don't just come out and say it. Why wait?