Erroneous TDNT pop-up - it renders the ESL entry, not the TDNT....
In studying the Greek word, hupostello (G5288)......With ESL open, hovering over the “TDNT 7:597” link renders a pop-up that cites “TDNT Volume 7, page 597” at the lower right of the pop-up, but the entry is the exact text of the ESL 5288 entry.
Every TDNT pop-up in ESL does the same thing - it says it’s the TDNT entry, but renders the ESL entry for the respective Strong’s #.
Is there something I’m missing in how Logos works, or is that an internal link that is all crossed up?
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I am not seeing this on my computer (see screen shot below). Do you own the TDNT? If so, I wonder if there is a problem with your index... Let's see what others say.
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Alabama needs to reset his shows DBL Greek, you should get this:
also check your date:
LLS:46.30.3
2009-10-28T21:41:11Z
STRONGS.logos4
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I'm not on my computer right now... Is it a prioritization issue?
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Apexite said:
Every TDNT pop-up in ESL does the same thing - it says it’s the TDNT entry, but renders the ESL entry for the respective Strong’s #.
This is a matter of Prioritization --> http://wiki.logos.com/Prioritizing
Basically you need to prioritize TDNT above ESL to ensure TDNT numbers are not handled by ESL, but then you may run into another problem because TDNT also handles Strong's Greek numbers and Greek headwords!
If ESL is your main lexicon you will have to use Advanced Prioritization on TDNT and prioritize as follows:-
- TDNT Apply only to Theological Dictionary of the New Testament --> from the first dropdown
- ESL --> no restriction
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
If ESL is your main lexicon you will have to use Advanced Prioritization on TDNT and prioritize as follows:-
- TDNT Apply only to Theological Dictionary of the New Testament --> from the first dropdown
- ESL --> no restriction
Personally have lexicons without Strong's numbers prioritized, then TDNT begins prioritization for lexicons with Strong's numbers.
Dictionary of Biblical Languages (DBL) lexicons have Strong's, TDNT, and TWOT numbering. For Strong's pop-up in DBL, have ESL advanced prioritization
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Prioritization changes things - but the rendering error (or misunderstanding of how it works) still remains.
I just moved DBL Greek to the top prioritization spot, so when I am in DBL for hypostello (which is DBL 5713), and hover over STR 5288, I get the exact text of DBL 5713, although at the lower right it reads "Strong's Greek #5288". And then when I go to ESL for 5288 and hover over TDNT 7:597, I get the exact text of DBL, with it reading at the lower right "TDNT Volume 7, Page 597 | DBL Greek". So it appears that what has happened is a switch from one erroneous rendering to another, with prioritization being the determining factor of which error I get.
I have never investigated Advanced Prioritization - but it seems a bit strange that AP is required in order to get a proper pop-up when hovering over a linked resource. Is that really a feature, or is that a bug?
[For future posting, how do I do a slice of a screen capture the way you guys are doing it?]
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Apexite said:
[For future posting, how do I do a slice of a screen capture the way you guys are doing it?]
Have a look at http://wiki.logos.com/Screenshot
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Apexite said:
I have never investigated Advanced Prioritization - but it seems a bit strange that AP is required in order to get a proper pop-up when hovering over a linked resource. Is that really a feature, or is that a bug?
It's a necessary feature when lexicons can handle many datatypes like Strong's Greek number, Hebrew words, Greek words, Strong's Hebrew number, TDNT number, etc.
The trick is to put all advanced prioritization (AP) above the main lexicon entries. So if you want ESL to handle Strong's numbers put the AP for ESL above the DBL entry e.g.
- TDNT Apply only to Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
- ESL Apply only to Greek Strong's Number
- ESL Apply only to Hebrew Strong's Number
- DBL Greek
- DBL Hebrew
- DBL Aramaic
- ESL
- TDNT
ESL will have second priority (after DBL) for Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic words but ESL will have first priority for Greek/Hebrew Strong's numbers.
TDNT will have third priority (after DBL & ESL) for Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic words, but it has first priority for TDNT number.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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THANKS, guys, for the help - all appreciated! And the specific guidance that the last post included was especially helpful, Dave. I have followed your AP instructions (watching Mark Barnes video as well), and I'm close, but still not there.
I set the AP as you suggested, and now when looking at the entry for #5288 (hupostello) in ESL, I can hover over the Strong's # for the prefix and root, and I get the ESL entry for those Strong's #'s, as I should. And when I hover over the TDNTA "1074", I get the TDNTA entry for 1074, as expected (although I did no AP on that resource). But when I hover over the GK "5713", or the TDNT "7:597", I get the exact same entry in the pop-up: the DBL for 5713. Are there a couple more AP settings I need to change?
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Apexite,
No disrespect to the above poster's but if de-prioritize those, you will never have that problem....just saying with all the 'trouble/backtrack/apply-this-to-that' you have to do. I de-prioritized sometime back when L4 came out and have never had a problem. but then this is me.......
R4m.
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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Apexite said:
Are there a couple more AP settings I need to change?
Wonder about prioritizing TDNT before ESL ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Apexite said:
But when I hover over the GK "5713", or the TDNT "7:597", I get the exact same entry in the pop-up: the DBL for 5713. Are there a couple more AP settings I need to change?
The GK pop-up is correct because DBL is the highest prioritised source. I've verified that the TDNT# is picked up from TDNT with the AP on TDNT - did you set up the AP exactly as shown?
Note that you have to set up AP's first before you can add the general prioritization for ESL and TDNT (at the bottom of the list).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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So.....I tried all 3 of the latest suggestions:
I changed the order of ESL and TDNT - no change from prior pop-up results.
I eliminated ALL prioritization of Lexicons - that made things worse (hovering over Strong's #, the pop-up rendered WSNTDICT entry, not ESL), and the TDNT pop-up seemed random - no logical start at the beginning of any entry, let alone the appropriate tagged entry.
Starting from NO lexicons being prioritized, I once again reproduced exactly what was suggested on the AP for TDNT, ESL, ESL - followed by the exact order of general prioritization - and it still brought up the DBL Greek pop-up results when hovering over TDNT.
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Apexite said:
Starting from NO lexicons being prioritized, I once again reproduced exactly what was suggested on the AP for TDNT, ESL, ESL - followed by the exact order of general prioritization - and it still brought up the DBL Greek pop-up results when hovering over TDNT.
Have you checked there are no higher prioritizations for DBL (or a another lexicon)? Post a screen shot of your prioritization list.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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No higher prioritizations for DBL (or any other lexicon). And here is the first screen shot I've ever done (I hope it works). [Any chance one of you lives in North Carolina? I'd be happy to have you set this up up me!]
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Let me try attaching that screen shot again.......
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Apexite said:
Let me try attaching that screen shot again.......
Your AP of TDNT is incorrect. Redo it and set the value only in the first box "of this type" like you did for ESL.
You need to include DBL Aramaic if you have that volume.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave - I changed it per your instructions. And yes, it worked. You're a CHAMP!! The DBL did not pop-up when hovering over the TDNT link. The TDNT entry popped up, so I'm thrilled. But there is still one quirk (perhaps no way to eliminate). The quirk is, it doesn't pop up to the first line of the word hupostello. Rather, it pops up to the first line of the linked page (in this case, "TDNT Volume 7, Page 597", with the pop-up text rendering 18 lines of the prior word to hupostello, and then has room for just 1 truncated line of hupostello info). Is that the way it works?....not showing the actual word entry, but a portion of the page that the word appears on? In theory, that could include only the actual word entry, or it could totally miss the word entry, depending on the placement of the desired word entry on that particular TDNT page.
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Apexite said:
The quirk is, it doesn't pop up to the first line of the word hupostello. Rather, it pops up to the first line of the linked page (in this case, "TDNT Volume 7, Page 597", with the pop-up text rendering 18 lines of the prior word to hupostello, and then has room for just 1 truncated line of hupostello info). Is that the way it works?....not showing the actual word entry, but a portion of the page that the word appears on?
That's a general problem with using page numbers in a link. Logos is currently updating TDNT but whether this issue is being addressed only Jannie can say!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Hello Dave,
It seems I have this to do too.
Question: Are there now more? And do you have a link to the ESL. I couldn't find it.
Thanks.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Yes, I have seen that. I'm not blind. I know the participants like it to try to expose others who write to old post. And you are one of them. But if they are still true, then why not.
Mike Binks said:Thats why I'm asked if there are more.
Second: It seems the order of the numbers tagged resources are still important, otherwise I had no problem I mentioned here. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/7741.aspx?PageIndex=1. If this has changed, why then I have issues? Please explain.
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Fabian said:
Yes, I have seen that. I'm not blind. I know the participants like it to try to expose others who write to old post. And you are one of them.
Well I wouldn't say 'like' but I am always a bit bemused as to why folk would think it likely that anything could be tested or competently commented on with regard to an version as far back as Logos 5.
I know I scan the forums to see if there is anything that I can help with and when posts crop up in these 'old version' forums it seems worth reminding posters that most folk won't be looking to what is going on in a Logos 5 forum that is likely to be pretty irrelevant to them.
Some might wonder why they are getting no response to their issue.
BTW, what is ESL? I don't see the abbreviation expanded anywhere!
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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I believe he is referring to the old “enhanced strongs lexicon” which is no longer sold by Logos, and for good reason. It was a mix of Thayer, BDB, and Strongs definitions, nothing you could hang your hat on. Times have changed and Logos links to actual resources now.
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Bobby Terhune said:
I believe he is referring to the old “enhanced strongs lexicon”
Thanks for answering that Bobby.
Bobby Terhune said:which is no longer sold by Logos, and for good reason.
Which probably explains why I couldn't find it when I searched the store. Not to buy it just to find out what it was. ;-)
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Hello
Thanks, yes the Enhanced Strong's Lexicon makes sense that this is the ESL which I have seen. I couldn't find it too. Thanks for the explanation, that it is outdated.
Question, makes it still sense to order the lexicons in the way as it is described or is this not necessary anymore?
Thanks for your answer.
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Keep smiling for Jesus post shows a glimpse of how complicated using the prioritizing of lexicons can be. Since that post many more have been added and some that are much better. Especially for linking to Strongs and GK numbers.
you probably should start a new thread asking for help with lexicon prioritizing.
a lot will depend on the depth of your resources that are type “lexicon”
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Bobby Terhune said:
Keep smiling for Jesus post shows a glimpse of how complicated using the prioritizing of lexicons can be. Since that post many more have been added and some that are much better. Especially for linking to Strongs and GK numbers.
you probably should start a new thread asking for help with lexicon prioritizing.
a lot will depend on the depth of your resources that are type “lexicon”
Ok. Thanks for your time to answer me. I appreciate it.
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