If a church purchases Logos can all of the pastors use the same program or do they have to individually purchase?
Welcome to the forums.
do they have to individually purchase?
Yes. One license, one user.
You would think they would offer some type of site license for churches, something a little more convenient and more manageable, something to entice them to choose Logos.
Welcome to the forums Jacob! [:)]
All of what's been said being true; I would suggest the church contact Logos Sales management. Depending on the number of users and level in which they want to enter the Logos family, they may be able to work out some sort of deal.
There does need to be some rethinking on the licensing model for churches with multiple Ministry Team users.
No problem with each user having an individual low end package for frequently used resources, that works fine as is. But when it comes to the concept of expensive commentary sets etc, the dead tree version of the church library would tend to have one set of each, not one set per individual. There is a need to be able to share the more expensive commentaries etc within a designated group.
No problem if this could were implemented on a one user per volume at a time model, the same way as a dead tree library copy would be used, but the current requirement for each user to have their own set actually discourages investment in electronic copies of the more expensive commentary sets as the "share-ability" of dead tree copies is intentionally not matched (yet) by their electronic counterparts.
Has to move in that direction eventually. Very few churches are going to invest in multiple copies of AYBC, WBC, NICNT/OT ICC etc (or even the larger bundles of less frequently referenced material) while these useful resources cannot currently be shared within the ministry team per the current license terms.
Ministry Team sized Faithlife Groups might be a way to allow appropriate management of sharing of copies of more expensive resource sets. Would likely result in increased sales of the more expensive sets in the long term, once they are no longer locked to a single user within a team. Should not be too difficult for a team to manage a one user at a time license system within the team the same way that they would with dead tree copies. This would be a useful alternative to allow such options for resources not in every day use by each team member. Not something that needs to be applied to every commonly used resource. Could probably managed in such a way that if several team members did indeed become heavy users of the same resource that they would find sharing as difficult as it is for dead tree copies and that alone would encourage the sale of multiple copies where that was appropriate. The Logos resource base is now way larger than many people anticipated when the current licence model was devised. Maybe it is time for a rethink ?
David - I don't disagree with your intentions... But I don't see it happening for a long time (if ever). The issue isn't Logos, the issue is publishers. Sharing books isn't something they like to allow people to do. Recently our public library had to stop the ability to "check out" ebooks.
No problem if this could were implemented on a one user per volume at a time model, the same way as a dead tree library copy would be used
I am in total agreement that this needs to happen. Given this is how printed resources have been used for centuries, this is perfectly reasonable.
The issue isn't Logos, the issue is publishers.
I believe you are absolutely correct.
Logos could develop a lend option with resources out of copyright if they wanted to.
I wonder how many churches are using one copy among many because the cost of multiple licenses is prohibitive, finding a way to justify it to themselves as harmless sharing. How much is being lost? Is there some price point that will entice at least some of that group to subscribe to a multiple user license, generating more sales? If the numbers were right, I'm sure publishers could be convinced.
But that's a good bit of speculation...
I wonder how many churches are using one copy among many because the cost of multiple licenses is prohibitive, finding a way to justify it to themselves as harmless sharing.
That's a great point. Somewhat like the photocopying of music, many churches justify it. I'm at a small church, so no one to be tempted to share with [:)]
Dead tree books are loanable and publishers have never been successful in trying to stop that. Customers will not tolerate for much longer not being allowed equivalent sharing of electonic books (particularly expensive reference books, not concerned about mass market novels which instead will just undergo significant price drops to get to a stable (long term) single user model). This is not an issue about pirating and making illegal copies, it was relatively easy to copy VHS tapes but not so easy to copy DVDs and Blu-rays, but that's not the point, you can still loan a DVD or a Blu Ray disc to a friend or team member. The technology exists to allow "loans" with electronic books, it just has not been applied properly yet.
The change will happen as soon as one of the relevant publishers sees the light and breaks ranks with outdated thinking and makes an effort to align electronic reference book usability with the dead tree model. (We are not talking the ebook model for mass market books here, but for the far more expensive and less frequently used reference material) Currently there are some who insist on clinging to the now outdated models they grew up with. Beyond the short term their only choice is to change or to go the way of IBM, Blockbuster and many others who grew too complacent and comfortable with their market share and sales models and failed to change fast enough to retain a leading market position (and in some cases were too slow and failed to survive at all). I expect Logos is able to lead the way in this, even if they can initially only offer material they publish themselves per such a model. If those who are currenly big names in the publishing world insist on sticking with outdated models, they will gradually be bypassed by authors who will cut them out and deal directly with electronic publishers such as Logos. Cutting out dead tree publishers is a lot easier than it was a few years ago and will get more common with time. Does not have to happen if publishers are willing to change fast enough, but many probably will stay unwilling just long enough for it to become too late for them. Eventually their sources of new material will dry up and sales of older material will not sustain them. I do not see that being far off given the rapid decline in sales and outlets for dead tree books and the rapid rise in the percentage of authors developing their books in electronic format.
And they will begin to loose revenue too.......
deal directly with electronic publishers such as Logos
Does Logos publish original content? I know Amazon does.
deal directly with electronic publishers such as Logos Does Logos publish original content? I know Amazon does.
Anything with Lexham in the title is original content
Thanks David. I wondered about the Lexham materials. Good to know that is published by Logos.
http://blog.logos.com/2012/05/get-published/
Much of the Kindle material is loanable; though I do not know how pervasive that is across their entire set of available books. At the very least, publishers must not be universally against the ability to lend e-books.
My experience is the most of Kindle material is not loanable. I just ran through a check, and about 1/3 of my titles were loanable. Also, notice the language from Amazon:
Kindle books can be loaned to another reader for a period of 14 days. The borrower does not need to own a Kindle -- Kindle books can also be read using our free Kindle reading applications for PC, Mac, iPad, iPhone, BlackBerry, and Android devices. Not all books are lendable -- it is up to the publisher or rights holder to determine which titles are eligible for lending. The lender will not be able to read the book during the loan period. Books can only be loaned once, and subscription content is not currently available for lending.
A book can be loaned only once. A book can be loaned for 14 days. (I've been told that the 14 days is "non negotiable"... you cant get it back early). The "loanable" books are at the discretion of the publisher. Nothing in this description gives me any notion that the publishers would be willing to allow a group of people to share resources.
For clarification: I'm not arguing that this is the right position. I have mixed thoughts on it. (If I was an author, I would want every single person to have to pay for the book! As a person serving in ministry, I want to buy one copy of a book and share it with all the other volunteers!) I'm not trying to make a value statement about the status quo... I'm just trying to share how I see the current landscape... and I don't see it changing at present. I also think it is important to consider: Amazon uses lost leaders frequently to drive sales. They are willing to lose money on a book to gain marketshare & to drive sales of their Kindle devices. Logos cant afford to do that.
I wonder how many churches are using one copy among many because the cost of multiple licenses is prohibitive, finding a way to justify it to themselves as harmless sharing. How much is being lost?
What is being lost is not of monetary value. It is the clear conscience that is being sacrificed for petty change. If it is wrong to steal, the amount saved by copyright infringements does not matter. A lot of churches are guilty of stealing and justify it with numerous arguments. It's sad but true.
The change will happen as soon as one of the relevant publishers sees the light and breaks ranks with outdated thinking and makes an effort to align electronic reference book usability with the dead tree model.
I disagree. The two are not comparable. An e-book is not a dead tree book. Each has it's pros & cons. You are not going to see free books for everyone, ever.
You are not going to see free books for everyone, ever.
I meant it in a plenary way. "You will not see all books, always free, for everyone."
If you want to glean the slim pickings at the edge of the field and count on the generosity of Faithlife, Bible Explorer, & Boaz, then of course you will get some crumbs from the table. But if I were allowed to borrow books from my father's Portfolio Edition I would not have bought my own Portfolio Edition. If my church library were allowed to loan out Logos books they would lose sales to individuals in my church. The first place I would campaign for "loaner" books would be at the college/seminary level. The students are mostly needy, most likely to use it, and will probably recommend it to future parishioners
.
Understand what you mean: But if you go to a church board with a proposal to buy a Commentary set for use by the ministry team and the options at similar prices are a dead tree set that everyone can use or an electronic copy that is tied to one individual the response is not what Logos would want.
I think it would be totally wrong if Churches would get special benefits. Likewise I think it's weird that married couples get that benefit. I mean, churches and married couple, if any, should be able to pay.
I'm struggling to imagine some category of people who should get benefits that other's don't get.
Those who can't afford a commentary set at the current price, can wait for it to go on sale ... I think it's reasonable that some effort is required in order to get a better price.
How much is being lost? Maybe their immortal soul? Maybe their chance at eternal life? Schools and Churches are said to be the greatest violators of copyright laws.
Married couples and their minor children can use the 'family' copy of Logos but only if no more then one 'family' member is using Logos at a 'professional' level. [usually defined as regularly researching sermons. If your 8 year old needs to do one of the mini sermons for Children's day I don't think Logos will mind. But if that 8 year old does it every week then they need to get their own copy]
Likewise I think it's weird that married couples get that benefit.
David, OK that sounds a bit better!
Found this in an e-book:
This ebook is licensed for your personal enjoyment only. This ebook may not be re-sold or given away to other people. If you would like to share this book with another person, please purchase an additional copy for each reader. If you're reading this book and did not purchase it, or it was not purchased for your use only, then please return to [[book site listed here]]
And that was in a free e-book!
Often books are given away for free to boost their rankings. The same is done for apps in the iOS app store. When an app has been "purchased" (even for free) by so many people, it rises in the rankings. Others come along later and see "wow, this is popular… it must be good!" When this technique is done well, its not just theory… it works.
And that was in a free e-book! Often books are given away for free to boost their rankings. The same is done for apps in the iOS app store. When an app has been "purchased" (even for free) by so many people, it rises in the rankings. Others come along later and see "wow, this is popular… it must be good!" When this technique is done well, its not just theory… it works.
If the jury ruled the wrong way could someone go to jail for giving away an e-book that was free?
It depends upon the country, and it depends upon what "gave away" entailed. Switching over to music as an example… Ripping a CD and giving it away to a few friends is a different thing than placing that same CD on a file sharing website where hundreds of thousands of people download it. People DO go to jail for this… HERE is an example of someone who shared videos.
And as for giving them away for free do they list all of the free ones as 'sold' or 'purchased'?
I'm not sure what you are asking. Can you explain more?
Sure, one license one user. Who get's it when the church splits/or a pastor leaves- do they take 'a copy' of it with 'em? who is the rightful owner, if it is the "church" then all the attendee's have ownership - will they all have access to the program? Is it going to be on the church's library computer or the pastor's private laptop?
Once you get all these quirk's worked out I think that you should be fine.....
And as for giving them away for free do they list all of the free ones as 'sold' or 'purchased'? I'm not sure what you are asking. Can you explain more?
as in 'this best selling e-book has sold 5,000,000 copies' - does that count the ones sold for zero point zero zero coins of the land?
Yep.
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