Here is a chance to voice your like or dislike on bdag
Price =great, good, fair, or bad
Specialty=the info can't be found in lest say the tdnt
is it your first, second or third choice?
PLEASE feel free to add anyother info.
You cannot study the Greek text without it. It is the gold standard when it comes to lexicons.
Yes You can if printed matter is OK. No it's not. See the lexicon suggested in: Lexicons ... it's one of the authors of BDAG:
Excellent thread!
Well, regarding the cost, I note that if I would buy it, there would eventually come a new Edition. Then I would feel I have to buy the new Edition. What would I do with two Editions? The cost for that would be high.
I'll go with the 2009 Danker lexicon as printed matter for now, buy the NEXT Edition of BDAG, and complement with other lexicons I have from OLL. That way I save the maximum amount of money, stay current, and get time off the computer and learn to use paper and pen too - adding of course learning on computer. I think two ways of learning will just be intuitive, not a disadvantage.
My studies won't be too advanced for a start, so I think I'll manage a while by being able to click and get lexicons such as Newman (to memorize from) and Louw-Nida (more elaborate) show up in Logos.
I think that since during the first years of study the Other Early Christian Literature content of the BDAG is superfluous, difficult to discern and/or memorize, and not a requirement, I'll do fine without it.
Using and switching between different lexicons doesn't seem like a problem to me.
The first thing I will study in college will be classical Gk in a large secular college nearby my home. In a much later phase I will be studying Septuagint Gk. So I think LSJ will be a good purchase, it can also be used for Lk.
There's so many things to spend on if You want a complete set of all Gk tools and resources that You might need.
It is the "gold standard" for NT lexicons. You can't compare it to TDNT - it's a lexicon, not a theological dictionary. It excels in giving authoritative, detailed definitions of NT words, and examples of those words in other secondary literature. Other dictionaries are better at discussing the theology of those words, and still others are better at giving simple, quick definitions. But nothing matches BDAG for authority, comprehensiveness or referencing.
If you've not used BDAG before, this guide will help you get the most out of it: http://ntresources.com/blog/documents/UsingBDAG.pdf
Having studied Gk on my own for a bit more than a year and having the next semester to finish off (other things) before starting Gk in college, I think BDAG would be overkill. EVENTUALLY I will need the next Edition of it, but that's then not now. So I would recommend others who are starting Gk now or later to prioritize other things before BDAG, if they can wait for the next Edition and manage with 2009 Danker as printed matter. I may be wrong but at least I'm offering the cheapest idea.
I've put restrains on myself, so that I don't keep just buying more and more (in advance) or expensive things or things I will read/use very little.
BDAG is a must! Head and shoulders above other Greek lexicons.
[Y]
BDAG, at least an early version, is essential for proper translation.
Here is a chance to voice your like or dislike on bdag Price = Good Specialty= The way it expounds on the meaning of a word and not just a simple translation from Greek to English. is it your first, second or third choice? First choice BDAG, Louw-Nida second and ironically my third is Thayer's in spite of being so out dated it still has some value to it. PLEASE feel free to add any other info. For extra info see Mark's useful link on how to use BDAG
Price = Good
Specialty= The way it expounds on the meaning of a word and not just a simple translation from Greek to English.
is it your first, second or third choice? First choice BDAG, Louw-Nida second and ironically my third is Thayer's in spite of being so out dated it still has some value to it.
PLEASE feel free to add any other info. For extra info see Mark's useful link on how to use BDAG
Having studied Gk on my own for a bit more than a year and having the next semester to finish off (other things) before starting Gk in college, I think BDAG would be overkill. EVENTUALLY I will need the next Edition of it, but that's then not now. So I would recommend others who are starting Gk now or later to prioritize other things before BDAG, if they can wait for the next Edition and manage with 2009 Danker as printed matter. I may be wrong but at least I'm offering the cheapest idea. I've put restrains on myself, so that I don't keep just buying more and more (in advance) or expensive things or things I will read/use very little.
Don't wait. Start out right by using BDAG. Most other Greek lexica for the NT are of little or no use. If they satisfy you, then you aren't really interested in learning anything from the Greek text so I would recommend that you use a translation.
Personally dreaming of a reformatted BDAG that is easier to read and search => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32633/243659.aspx#243659
Keep Smiling [:)]
Personally dreaming of a reformatted BDAG that is easier to read and search => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32633/243659.aspx#243659 Keep Smiling
Keep Smiling
What do you consider to be the problem with BDAG that could possibly be easier to read? If you want to find the appropriate usage of a word in a particular context it is necessary to have examples to illustrate the usage in various circumstances. This means that it isn't possible to simply select the lemma and then pick a gloss at random (or according to your particular preference). The understanding of the usage depends on the context. The context is what BDAG gives but which many others lack.
That is a good dream which hopefully will one day become a reality. I have often struggled my way through entries which were very difficult to read. They were necessary for print editions to keep the books from becoming unmanageably bigger. I guess digital versions have simply not made the formatting change.
What do you consider to be the problem with BDAG that could possibly be easier to read?
One is formatting; someth. is semi colons to separate list of items; two is extensive use of abbr., which freq. do not match all forms of a word for searching. With digital formatting, lists can have bullet points with alignment so can readily see range of examples. Also, abbreviations can be replaced with their corresponding words, which would be appreciated for searching.
If someone can't afford the current BDAG, an older edition of BDAG (or even the older BAGD) would be helpful, and it would better than most other lexicons.
g
What do you consider to be the problem with BDAG that could possibly be easier to read? One is formatting; someth. is semi colons to separate list of items; two is extensive use of abbr., which freq. do not match all forms of a word for searching. With digital formatting, lists can have bullet points with alignment so can readily see range of examples. Also, abbreviations can be replaced with their corresponding words, which would be appreciated for searching. Keep Smiling
In order to institute some of the changes which you suggest a complete rewrite of BDAG would be required since the electronic edition attempts to present the material in the same fashion as the print edition. While it would be possible to have pop-ups for the abbreviations, this would require a considerable additional tagging in addition to an already formidable amount of tagging. I'm not sure why you would wish to search within the entries of the lemmas other than for instances of particular passages (which is already possible). One thing which would be helpful is a tagging of particular abbreviations for works cited which would take one directly to that abbreviation within the list of works and authors cited. An example of this would be in the entry for ἀνακεφαλαιόω (chosen at random). There you will find an entry "Ps.-Aristot., De Mundo 4, 1" which is tagged "Ps.-Aristot, s. Aristot.—List 5" and which is linked to List 5 rather than taking the reader directly to "Ps.-Aristot., s. Aristot(le)" which would then link to
Aristot(le), ed. IBekker, Prussian Royal Academy, 2 ed. (OGignon et al.) 1960; for fragments: VRose, ed., Aristotelis qui ferebantur librorum fragmenta 1886 IV b.c. De Mundo (spurious), ed. WLorimer 1933 I a.d.EN= Ethica NichomacheaGA= De Generatione AnimaliumHA= Historia Animalia
rather than necessitating a search through List 5 (This can be done using <ctrl-F>). If such was your meaning, I agree that would be helpful and could be accomplished without a complete rewrite of BDAG. Bullet points, however, would destroy the correspondence of the electronic edition with the print, and that would not be desirable.
I am interested. It's just that in order to study Biblical Gk over here, You have to first study 1 year of Theology full time (that's why I'm starting out with classical Gk in a secular uni) or the same amount part-time. By the time I know Gk a bit better and need better lexicons, the release date of the NEXT Edition of BDAG has drawn closer. Also, for memorizing I think BDAG is overkill just like I said. I'm not that young, 31, I can't start out yet with Gk in uni/college, and I will have difficulties with both grammar and vocabulary. So it sure will take a while before I need the Other Early Christian Literature content:
Mosty other Greek lexica for the NT are of little or no use. If they satisfy you, then you aren't really interested in learning anything from the Greek text so I would recommend that you use a translation.
As You know, BDAG is not NT-only, surely the 2009 Danker lexicon is right too for the NT?:
Don't wait. Start out right by using BDAG. Most other Greek lexica for the NT are of little or no use.
I really don't understand what You mean, there's the 2009 Danker lexicon, which is cheap, available as printed matter, I linked to it in my first post! Why would someone want an older lexicon. Also buying the BAGD in Logos would mean having to buy it used, which is more difficult, although may be cheaper, than buying the BDAG from the Logos store. And the other older Edition You are talking about would be BAG and You do realize the original was in German and was from the 1950's?:
By the time I know Gk a bit better and need better lexicons, the release date of the NEXT Edition of BDAG has drawn closer.
You appear to be under the impression that the next edition will be published in 2-5 yrs. It may well be 20-30 yrs before a new edition is published. I wouldn't recommend holding your breath.
No, I thought it would come in 2025, (just) 12 years from now.
If the Editions would keep coming with the same pace as historically, it would come in 2021. So 12 years is a rounded off figure.
I really doubt it will come later than 2025, for example there's been important manuscript finds (NT, Origen), English evolves, and more and more people demand lexicons as Bible study software will be much more common for language work than it was in the turn of the millennia:
You appear to be under the impression that the next edition will be published in 2-5 yrs.
Bullet points, however, would destroy the correspondence of the electronic edition with the print, and that would not be desirable.
Dreaming of a reformatted digital BDAG with additional tagging that does have a printed edition so would not need page numbers.
I think BDAG would be overkill.
Having studied NT Greek for 18 years, I can tell you it should be your starting point. You need three things to get started: an introductory grammar, a Greek NT, and BDAG.
In what way?: Why do I need to learn Other Early Christian Literature during my first decade?:
Having studied NT Greek for 18 years, I can tell you it should be your starting point:I think BDAG would be overkill.
Other Early Christian Literature
BDAG, at least an early version, is essential for proper translation. Some may enjoy this article: http://www.frame-poythress.org/how-have-inclusiveness-and-tolerance-affected-the-bauer-danker-greek-lexicon-of-the-new-testament-bdag/ (Not meant for theological discussion, just info on which edition one may desire to use, etc..)
Some may enjoy this article: http://www.frame-poythress.org/how-have-inclusiveness-and-tolerance-affected-the-bauer-danker-greek-lexicon-of-the-new-testament-bdag/ (Not meant for theological discussion, just info on which edition one may desire to use, etc..)
Peace! *smile* Thank you so very kindly for that "link"!!! I thoroughly appreciated -- and enjoyed! -- the article and am grateful to you for sharing!
It is the "gold standard" for NT lexicons. You can't compare it to TDNT - it's a lexicon, not a theological dictionary. It excels in giving authoritative, detailed definitions of NT words, and examples of those words in other secondary literature. Other dictionaries are better at discussing the theology of those words, and still others are better at giving simple, quick definitions. But nothing matches BDAG for authority, comprehensiveness or referencing. If you've not used BDAG before, this guide will help you get the most out of it: http://ntresources.com/blog/documents/UsingBDAG.pdf
In what way?: Why do I need to learn Other Early Christian Literature during my first decade?
The New Testament was not written in a vacuum. And so to learn about the usage of the Greek of the New Testament, it is useful to bring in comparisons with other contemporary literature. The writers and early readers of the New Testament were not aware of any wall of separation between the terms the NT uses and the world around them.
The immense value of the "Bauer" in the various editions/incarnations in English and German it is almost a one-stop shop to enter into the discussion. Glosses (or "definitions") that you would memorize are almost the least important part of it. Instead it has links to important passages of the word being discussed in Greek as well as important secondary literature on the term, all arranged by Greek word and then by USAGE of that word - making it a near indispensable work for New Testament Greek.
The only "disadvantages" are the price, and the fact that because it is so condensed, it can be a bit cryptic to beginners. Of course, for your courses at Uni on Hellenistic Greek, there are better resources (LSJ). But for NT Greek, it is the king of the mountain.
SDG
Ken McGuire
And one of the greatest benefits of BDAG in Logos is that so many of the texts referenced are available in Logos as well. This means you can read the references cited in Bdag and see how the word is used!
Kevin and Ken, I know that but it's too hard to learn scholarly precise definitions of words. If I demand too much from myself I will learn nothing. There's a lot to learn from just the 2009 Danker lexicon that focuses on the NT.
I guess learning Gk can be unpleasant too. Imagining that I would need to work like a pro from start would only make things worse.
I know that but it's too hard to learn scholarly precise definitions of words.
The precision is the value of learning the original languages. If one will not commit to study the precise intricacies of the original languages, (s)he will easily be drawn to wrong conclusions. If precision is not important, one would better spend the time studying good commentaries rather than learning of Greek and Hebrew.
Let me say: I love the BDAG. I am also a student of Greek, like you. I have taught myself for about 4 years. So I am a "little Greek."
I highly recommend it. Settle for nothing less. It's not too scholarly for us beginners.
In fact, it will make your experience smooth sailing to know that with links to open panels, you don't have to spend so much time trying to figure out which of the definitions is the best option! Praise God for such a resource as Logos. Almost all the work has been done for you.
I really don't understand what You mean, there's the 2009 Danker lexicon, which is cheap, available as printed matter, I linked to it in my first post! Why would someone want an older lexicon. Also buying the BAGD in Logos would mean having to buy it used, which is more difficult, although may be cheaper, than buying the BDAG from the Logos store. And the other older Edition You are talking about would be BAG and You do realize the original was in German and was from the 1950's?:If someone can't afford the current BDAG, an older edition of BDAG (or even the older BAGD) would be helpful, and it would better than most other lexicons.
My friend, I know that you have studied Greek by yourself for a year. I have studied Greek for 3 years at an excellent seminary under excellent scholars, and I have studied Greek at least 5 days a week for an additional 34 years, and I still have much to learn. But I am progressing.
What I mean in my comment about buying a previous version of BDAG, only if you can't afford the current BDAG, is that even the previous editions of BDAG are more complete than the more recent editions of those other lexicons. There is nothing else that does what BDAG does, and it has been the gold standard in lexicons for 40 years and through several editions. I personally would trust the old BAGD over anything other that the current BDAG. After all the Greek New Testament was written even before old BAGD, and the Greek New Testament hasn't changed that much in the last 40 years. As little as I have learned in 37 years of Greek study, I have learned one thing for sure. That is that any serious student of Greek needs BDAG, or the closest thing to it that you can afford.
I do not intend this as a put down or to say I am a superior Greek scholar. I am not. However, I do know that one important thing to learn about the Greek New Testament is that most of what one knows about Greek at the beginning of his study is wrong. So it is wise to have a teachable spirit. A little knowledge will only make one look very foolish. This is not to discourage your study. Your effort to learn Greek is commendable.
I hope you persist in your studies for I believe that you have a heart for God's Word. I wish you well.
Unix, You seem to think using a BDAG will add more of a burden, but the reason for any fine tool and what others are trying to say is, it will lesson your burden.
Even if it's more effort to learn the wrong definitions first only to correct them later from the next Edition of BDAG, that's the way to go. The alternative is that I don't learn at all. I'm old when starting, things will come in between like I explained. The most simplified, cheap and adequate sollution is the best. I save more than a $100, those money I can use for compensating my precision.
If precision is not important, one would better spend the time studying good commentaries rather than learning of Greek and Hebrew.
I expect it to take quite many years to learn Gk and that there's no easy way. Have to learn a lot of grammar by heart as well as vocabulary. Being able to read th Gk NT a lot is ~a decade from now.
Probably I'm several times more poor than most or all of You others and my finances will probably never be as good as now. For better finances I should start yet another proprietary firm, but my imagination is stuck so I don't know what the firm should do and in what way exactly I should start it.
To go to Church more often (for example when there's bad weather and/or I don't have a ticket for public transport, or even when I have a ticket just to get there quicker) I should buy a moped-car, it's a kind of car with reduced top speed. I could not afford taking a driving licence, I just have a manual gear moped license. And my moped should be assembled. So that kind of stuff might consume money in the future, altough they are of course optional. I have a long way to all adequate Churches.
So no matter how I solve things, Christianity will cost me a lot of money. It's difficult to find a really cheap way out and still be active and learn:
but the reason for any fine tool and what others are trying to say is, it will lessen your burden.
Even if it's more effort to learn the wrong definitions first only to correct them later from the next Edition of BDAG, that's the way to go. The alternative is that I don't learn at all. I'm old when starting, things will come in between like I explained. The most simplified, cheap and adequate sollution is the best. I save more than a $100, those money I can use for compensating my precision
Unix, I think you're too old to start learning Greek and Hebrew. Milford Charles Murray is younger than you. By that I am obviously not referring to chronological age. You are set in your ways as is frequently associated with older people. Save the money you would spend buying texts and grammars and lexicons since you are too old.
Milford Charles Murray is younger than you. By that I am obviously not referring to chronological age.
Unix, I think you're too old to start learning Greek and Hebrew. Milford Charles Murray is younger than you. By that I am obviously not referring to chronological age. You are set in your ways as is frequently associated with older people.
It is interesting that you come to the opposite conclusion than I did. When seeing what comes across to be as idealism and bitterness at things that don't quite agree with the way he thinks they should be, I was thinking he sounds like a person who is rather young and facing and sometimes rejecting the way life shows us that the dreams of youth have their limitations.
But then I keep reminding myself that in spite of his English coming across as better than many adults I know, that he is Swedish and so English is not his primary language, and when people converse in a way in which we are not entirely comfortable, that awkwardness can come off in somewhat similar ways.
I have actually found that while older people can indeed sometimes be set in their ways in some things (I have an aunt who refuses to pump her own gas and so goes out of her way to find a place that will pump it for her), they also have seen quite a few changes over their lives - in things they love or have learned to love. When I was on a call committee, it was the young adults who wanted a pastor to keep things the same as they had it as kids for their kids. The grandparents, on the other hand, knew that things are different.
So no matter how I solve things, Christianity will cost me a lot of money. It's difficult to find a really cheap way out and still be active and learn:but the reason for any fine tool and what others are trying to say is, it will lessen your burden.
unix,
if finances are the issue, don't worry about bdag now. It is a wonderful tool, but you can learn Greek without it. It is wonderful that you are pursuing learning Greek, and it is also good that you have a long term view of the process!
George and Ken, I'm not set in my ways or bitter. My girlfriend (who I'm with again since a couple of days) complains very often about that I put too much money into books. We don't have a shared economy, but anyway.
Also, a couple of days ago Logos told me that I will no longer get to buy any books at pre-pub price. Recently, before that I've discussed intensely on Christianforums and Logos which pre-pubs to cancel: Help me decide which book orders to cancel! and Outdated and expensive. Logos wants to add 10% on every pre-pub price when I buy something. That will cost me a whole lot. The reason is changed policy. They have always had to do manual labour in accounting to charge books on my bank-card, since my bank requires additional security, the CVC/CVV2 -code from the back of my card. All this will change only when the Pastor's Piggy Bank that Dan Pritchett talked about, comes live.
My situation is different than that of a pastor in a small Church since a pastor has already studied Gk in seminary. But similar since I have to keep costs down by having sort of a book allowance.
My only option for cutting costs radically in the long run, would be to move out from this city somewhere where flats are cheap. Then I'd of course loose my girlfriend, she is not movable. And I rarely meet new friends so... the past few years I've got only one new friend, a male, and he lives on some distance in the archipelago so we have met only twice. I sure have tried. I can imagine all this would be more difficult in a small town (as I've lived in towns several times). Costs for moving would also be high (they often are over here and I have a lot of things), oh yeah and repairs of this apartment after the burglars, and a stain in the parquet flooring after an electrical moped that leaked oil when it fell for just a couple of seconds. I have slight epilepsy, so that might be why it fell.
So there's not much of good advice to give me, I guess.
I have had a lot of costs during my life, for example for starting a family that I later lost.
I bet some of You don't follow my logic.
I would hope that there would be enough reason to justify a purchase of BDAG, but so far there isn't. I have neglected many areas of my life, I haven't even seen my children for several years because I have not been ready (and have almost no rights to see them anyway which put me down) and I would certainly not afford buying them gifts or anything but I guess they would expect to get gifts. I'm not bitter. If someone doesn't care about me I care about them even less. If my children choose to believe the lies of their mother that's fine by me and I will not need to nor want to see them. It's up to them, not me.
Gk will be important for me (not Hebrew, I just want to study the Septuagint a bit and avoid more than (very) superficial knowledge of Hebrew) but it's not the only thing in the life of a poor person.
I would not want to be rich because I would not want to break my back working for the money. I did once and it eventually turned into a disaster.
I may not be wise, I just know what to avoid: such as imagining I'll afford everything or imagining I'll some day get a good job or one that pays minimum wage.
I'm tired of spending my last money just because I afford to. Having a savings account and not touching it often is very important for me.
So value for money is not enough reason to buy BDAG. BDAG is too much quantity: it contains all the words and the full definitions - I'll try to get by without for a while.
And no: I just can't see how memorizing from BDAG would be realistic? Using BDAG as reference would be OK.
One thing I do quite often is to copy the entry in BDAG and paste it in Notepad or Word.
Then I can dissect it and edit it to a nice format and then do the actual reading.
By the way, the Exegetical Summary series by SIL refer to BAGD, to the older version. Logos should provide either the older version for free or some sort of crossover links to BDAG
It would need to be the latter since when they began to publish BDAG they discontinued BAGD (I think by contract). Some of us do still have BAGD and could supply the references if you would care to poste the links to BAGD that interest you.
So what is the likely hood of BDAG being updated in the next 10 years? As I understand all those who worked on previous editions have passed away. Has anyone taken up their mantle? How would it be funded in a time when a growing number buy books on computer? I assume that a new edition would more likely be a group effort than have so much coming from one or two individuals.
So what is the likely hood of BDAG being updated in the next 10 years? As I understand all those who worked on previous editions have passed away. Has anyone taken up their mantle? How would it be funded in a time when a growing number buy books on computer? I assume that a new edition would more likely be a group effort than have so much coming from one or two individuals. Well, regarding the cost, I note that if I would buy it, there would eventually come a new Edition. Then I would feel I have to buy the new Edition. What would I do with two Editions? The cost for that would be high.
The next step in Greek lexica may not be in English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diccionario_Griego-Espa%C3%B1ol
http://dge.cchs.csic.es/
Spanish is beginning to gain a place in scholarship. I wouldn't anticipate a new edition of A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature any time in the near future.
Also, a couple of days ago Logos told me that I will no longer get to buy any books at pre-pub price.
What? [:O] On the surface this sounds outrageous. Was any reason given? Have you been in the habit of cancelling pre-pubs?
Word from Logos would be appreciated if this is some new policy.
What? On the surface this sounds outrageous. Was any reason given? Have you been in the habit of cancelling pre-pubs? Word from Logos would be appreciated if this is some new policy.
What? On the surface this sounds outrageous. Was any reason given? Have you been in the habit of cancelling pre-pubs?
If this is a new policy, you can rest assured that this is a policy just for Unix, because (let's try putting in politely), his way of 'buying' and frequently returning Logos books isn't entirely orthodox.
What? On the surface this sounds outrageous. Was any reason given?
Read his post again; the reason is there. He's forcing them to handle every shipping prepub manually, by telephone. Guess what that costs them!
I haven't even seen my children for several years because I have not been ready (and have almost no rights to see them anyway which put me down) and I would certainly not afford buying them gifts or anything but I guess they would expect to get gifts. I'm not bitter. If someone doesn't care about me I care about them even less. If my children choose to believe the lies of their mother that's fine by me and I will not need to nor want to see them. It's up to them, not me.
That is a very sad comment. I wasn't previously aware that you have children. It isn't simply a matter of whether your children "care about" you. What is important is that you have a responsibility to them though I might say that judging from some of your posts here I wonder whether not having you in their life is to their benefit. Straighten up ! Be a man and accept responsibility for their welfare and nurture.
I and their mother have nothing to do with each other, so it would be impossible to give them money even if I had and wanted to:
Straighten up ! Be a man and accept responsibility for their welfare and nurture.
I and their mother have nothing to do with each other, so it would be impossible to give them money even if I had and wanted to:Straighten up ! Be a man and accept responsibility for their welfare and nurture.
I said nothing about money (though you should provide some support). I referred to your personal interaction with your children. You don't need to have anything to do with their mother—have something to do with your children.
Even if it's more effort to learn the wrong definitions first only to correct them later from the next Edition of BDAG, that's the way to go. The alternative is that I don't learn at all. I'm old when starting, things will come in between like I explained. The most simplified, cheap and adequate sollution is the best. I save more than a $100, those money I can use for compensating my precision.If precision is not important, one would better spend the time studying good commentaries rather than learning of Greek and Hebrew. I expect it to take quite many years to learn Gk and that there's no easy way. Have to learn a lot of grammar by heart as well as vocabulary. Being able to read th Gk NT a lot is ~a decade from now. Probably I'm several times more poor than most or all of You others and my finances will probably never be as good as now. For better finances I should start yet another proprietary firm, but my imagination is stuck so I don't know what the firm should do and in what way exactly I should start it. To go to Church more often (for example when there's bad weather and/or I don't have a ticket for public transport, or even when I have a ticket just to get there quicker) I should buy a moped-car, it's a kind of car with reduced top speed. I could not afford taking a driving licence, I just have a manual gear moped license. And my moped should be assembled. So that kind of stuff might consume money in the future, altough they are of course optional. I have a long way to all adequate Churches. So no matter how I solve things, Christianity will cost me a lot of money. It's difficult to find a really cheap way out and still be active and learn:but the reason for any fine tool and what others are trying to say is, it will lessen your burden.
I've just spent a few minutes in prayer for you and for the Holy Spirit's handling of some of the things that have been said on this very difficult thread! Some of these things are truly beyond any one of us!
If I need forgiveness for interjecting in this thread, please forgive me. However, your personal life comes across as very difficult for you right now; so I thought I'd write a few friendly words of encouragement.
I know English is your second (or even third, perhaps ... ) language and perhaps we've been talking past each other.
My heart goes out to you that right now you say you are finding it difficult to have a true friend with whom you can discuss various matters of life.
I was "taken aback" at your phrase -- quote -- "Christianity will cost me a lot of money..." What you say is true and even more so ...
Truly following God - His Word - His Beloved Son Jesus Christ will cost a lot more than money. Somehow, Unix, you need to get back to the basics of a personal relationship with a Beautiful and Wonderful God who truly cares about you in so many fantastic ways.
I remember learning the guitar in my 30's, necessary because I needed a guitarist in Worship. My fingers were so sore on the metal strings.... I remember the pain .....
but someone gave me some advice ... keep at it until your fingers become "tender tough," until your callouses are tough and strong, but very flexible ........... and I was able to get to that point!!!
Unix, I think the attitude of the Christian is a bit "tender tough," also. We "hang on in there" during days of pain and struggle -- no matter what! Then, all of a sudden ... one day everything is beautiful and everything is possible ...
Hang on in there, Brother! *smile* and May God give you forgiveness and meaning for your life and daily peace and contentment! Indeed.
