Greek and Hebrew word derivations

Can you recommend resources that do a good job on providing word derivations? For example, the NBD says of "gospel": "In classical literature the word designated the reward given for good tidings. It also indicated the message itself, originally the announcement of victory, but later applied to other messages bringing joy.". I'd like to be able to find citations to establish the background -- non-Biblical texts identifying uses of euangelion to mean "victory".

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Comments

TCBlack

You want two sources for that kind of broad depth. First you want TDNT the broadest and deepest some would say. Follow that up with BDAG and if you can spare a third EDNT.

If you want both languages get the BDAG/HALOT Bundle.

Damian McGrath

As Thomas has said TDNT is the first stop. Be aware that only the first half of the volumes really focus on etymology. After James Barr wrote his scathing attack on what has now become known as the "etymological fallacy", they shifted track.

Ian Rowlands

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/54819#Comment_54819

Thank you both. That was the guidance I needed :-)

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59640#Comment_59640

Thank you both. That was the guidance I needed :-)

I gotta add my voice to those that say that TDNT sometimes gets a bit overzealous with its etymology suppositions and conclusions. Current research would challenge several large chunks of that part of those works.

Etymology does not always give insight into meaning. I heard someone reject the use of pharmacology since pharmakeia means sorcery or magic. But that's a spurious conclusion. Words shift in meaning over time, as did this one. And while at one point pharmakon meant magic potion, it later came to mean simply medicine or remedy (see BDAG for a further discussion), without the magical connotation. Another example of this is the English word "gay." A generation ago it simply meant 'happy.' Now it means something very different, and "don we now our gay apparel' makes a modern listener think of a parade in San Francisco, more than getting dressed up for church. [;)].

So etymology can help point the way, but don't let etymology define the way, since sometimes etymology points out a way that is a dead end. Take the other information and usage of the term into account too. In fact current thinking is that usage determines meaning and trumps etymology whenever they differ.

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59647#Comment_59647

TDNT sometimes gets a bit overzealous with its etymology suppositions and conclusions. Current research would challenge several large chunks of that part of those works.

Rich,

Interesting points.

Are journals the primary source for staying up on "current research" or does one need to maintain professorial or other scholarly contacts?

Thanks in advance,

Scott

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59721#Comment_59721

TDNT sometimes gets a bit overzealous with its etymology suppositions and conclusions. Current research would challenge several large chunks of that part of those works.

Rich,

Interesting points.

Are journals the primary source for staying up on "current research" or does one need to maintain professorial or other scholarly contacts?

Thanks in advance,

Scott

I actually learn a lot from the other guys on this forum (those with and without the MVP star). Beyond that, I just try to keep up with things, and listen to my pastor friends. Journals are often to technical for my feeble brain. Some discussions go right over my head, some stuff I seem to actually learn. I also use Logos a lot to look at things like this from different angles. But I am really attracted to things that don't make sense to me, but seem to make sense to others. It's amazing how much you can learn with a little humility and a lot of paying attention.

But language is an interest of mine, and I find myself attracted to articles and discussions about it.I have pondered for weeks things like the field of meaning of the Greek words "logos" and "pistis" especially when I find English has no direct equivalents, and what do have often is inadequate. As I look at these things I begin to see stuff and find that the cursory glance some commentators give looks insufficient, so I start to ask more questions and stumble into tentative theories and go looking to prove or disprove them. It's amazing how much you can learn by just wondering and thinking about things, and then asking better questions and trying to find the answers.

Stefán Féliz-Kent

All the suggestions here are excellent and I agree with being cautious with TDNT. I just want to add that a very rewarding and enriching way to get the information you're looking for is to do the research yourself (if you can afford it!). It's somewhat pricey, but the TLG (Thesaurus Linguae Graecae: http://www.tlg.uci.edu/) will give you just about everything you want, including Philo and Josephus in Greek. I believe that right now it's going for $100/year or $400 for 5 years.

Happy researching!

davidphillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59734#Comment_59734

Ian,

Let me add another suggestion. If you purchase products like TDNT and BDAG, I would also highly reccomend getting as many of the original sources they reference as you can (over time, of course). It's is always good when you're studying a word to not just read what BDAG/TDNT has to say, but to read the works they're referencing. It is amazing to be able to hover over references to the Apostolic Fathers, Philo, Josephus, pseudepigrapha, etc. and see the word used in context. This is an area where Logos truly shines!

Scott S

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59726#Comment_59726

Rich,

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

Scott

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59721#Comment_59721

Scott, it's not in Logos but it should be (and it ain't real "curent") - James Barr's Semantics of Biblical Language. It's from 1961 - an absolutely essential read for anyone interested in the issue of semantics.

One can then read Moise Silva's Biblical Words and their Meaning.

And for a Logos resource: Carson's Exegetical Fallacies: sadly not available separately http://www.logos.com/products/details/2812

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59726#Comment_59726

But language is an interest of mine, and I find myself attracted to articles and discussions about it.I have pondered for weeks things like the field of meaning of the Greek words "logos" and "pistis" especially when I find English has no direct equivalents, and what do have often is inadequate. As I look at these things I begin to see stuff and find that the cursory glance some commentators give looks insufficient, so I start to ask more questions and stumble into tentative theories and go looking to prove or disprove them. It's amazing how much you can learn by just wondering and thinking about things, and then asking better questions and trying to find the answers.

I agree ... but it is also useful to look back - nothing like a bit of Proto-IndoEuopean to get a sense of what is very old in a language and what is recent ... confined to the Hellenic (or Italic or Germanic) branches. I use commentators - they know much I don't - but its so much more interesting to come up with the questions the commentators didn't think to ask.

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59792#Comment_59792

And for a Logos resource: Carson's Exegetical Fallacies: sadly not available separately http://www.logos.com/products/details/2812

I had to read Exegetical Fallacies for my Greek Syntax class. It's a highly readable book that offers wise guidance for word studies and other issues of exegesis; I consider it a must read.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59640#Comment_59640

Thank you both. That was the guidance I needed :-)

James Barr's attack on the etymological fallacy was mentioned. I would take heed if I were you. What matters is not the etymology of a word but its usage in context. Does it matter that the word "Easter" comes from a Germanic goddess? None of us uses it in that sense unless we are dealing with the Germanic gods. I would read Barr's Semantics of Biblical Language if I were you. I would hope that Logos will get the rights to publish this. It is one of the more important works on the subject.