Announcing New Logos Video Tools: Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos

We're developing a set of HD videos (over 15 hours of content) designed to help you to use Greek and Hebrew tools in Logos without formal training. Or you can use them to help knock some of the rust off your Greek or Hebrew!

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5876

Scholar's is recommend. and BDAG as well. However, if you don't have BDAG you can still get plenty of value and skill with Logos 4 without it.

Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

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Comments

Kaye Anderson

It's on my Pre-Pub list. Are we there yet?? [H]

And thanks for the BDAG comment. I don't have it yet...

Russ Quinn

Will free tutorials still be developed for those who aren't necessarily looking for language instruction but want to learn how to best use L4 tools like Morphological and Syntactical searching?

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

We are sooo close! [:)]

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

"Will free tutorials still be developed for those who aren't necessarily looking for language instruction but want to learn how to best use L4 tools like Morphological and Syntactical searching?"

for sure!

Russ Quinn

for sure!

Great news!

I'm very supportive of this initiative.
I am hopeful that it will help a lot of people use the wealth of information so easily available in L4 in an exegetically responsible way.

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

It's on my Pre-Pub list. Are we there yet??

And thanks for the BDAG comment. I don't have it yet...

K

We are sooo close! Smile

Damian McGrath

Reuben,

Whilst I have ordered this and look forward to using it, I am concerned by statements such as this: "Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes.".

In my third year of Hebrew we were required to read unpointed texts and examined on our ability to repoint unseen texts. Granted that I did many more hours of Hebrew than most seminaries or M.Div programs, but the sell seems just a little bit too much here.... After three years, I expect people to be able to read narrative texts without the use of a lexicon, I'm not sure that 15 hours of videos can achieve this.

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

Reuben,

Whilst I have ordered this and look forward to using it, I am concerned by statements such as this: "Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional Greek and Hebrew classes.".

In my third year of Hebrew we were required to read unpointed texts and examined on our ability to repoint unseen texts. Granted that I did many more hours of Hebrew than most seminaries or M.Div programs, but the sell seems just a little bit too much here.... After three years, I expect people to be able to read narrative texts without the use of a lexicon, I'm not sure that 15 hours of videos can achieve this.

Damian,

You are correct that the focus is not sight reading the text, that requires hundreds of hours of memorization. but we can accomplish a thorough training on how to use the tools for hebrew exegesis and the mindset required to think through the results that appear in the reports. Also folks can gain an understanding of the significance of morph info and when it appropriately aides your exegesis.

MJ. Smith

Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

I'll admit to being skeptical - it sounds like you are claiming a shortcut to knowledge that requires years of reading original languages - the surface grammar and "literal" translation is the easy part of language - the part Logos provides excellent tools to support. But actually understanding of the language requires that you are comfortable with the idioms and connotations of the language as used in particular genres and eras. Do the videos approach any of these issues? If so, I am very interested in them.

Damian McGrath

Reuben,

Thanks for your reply. Once again, I am looking forward to working my way through this resource. I'm just not sure that the statement I quoted, and similar ones made in the introductory video, fairly represent what can be achieved. I also consider the name "Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew" perhaps a misnomer when the goal is learning tools for dealing with Greek and Hebrew texts.

Please take this in the spirit with which it is offered....

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

I'll admit to being skeptical - it sounds like you are claiming a shortcut to knowledge that requires years of reading original languages - the surface grammar and "literal" translation is the easy part of language - the part Logos provides excellent tools to support. But actually understanding of the language requires that you are comfortable with the idioms and connotations of the language as used in particular genres and eras. Do the videos approach any of these issues? If so, I am very interested in them.

MJ,

Were you able to watch the video on "bara" at the bottom of pre-pub? It may give you an idea if this videos series is for you. In it Dr. Heiser explores the basics of understanding a word based on its use in a specific context. Ideas like idioms and connotations are the meat of interpretation that we want to focus on, as well as the connotations of morphology. As you said, "translation" is the easy part. In Logos it is basically done for you. So that is why we are focusing on the significance of the data that the software can bring you so the student is equipped to evaluate commentators and lexicons with intelligence.

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

Reuben,

Thanks for your reply. Once again, I am looking forward to working my way through this resource. I'm just not sure that the statement I quoted, and similar ones made in the introductory video, fairly represent what can be achieved. I also consider the name "Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew" perhaps a misnomer when the goal is learning tools for dealing with Greek and Hebrew texts.

Please take this in the spirit with which it is offered....

No problem, we appreciate the feedback.

Jack Caviness

Reuben,

Thanks for your reply. Once again, I am looking forward to working my way through this resource. I'm just not sure that the statement I quoted, and similar ones made in the introductory video, fairly represent what can be achieved. I also consider the name "Learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew" perhaps a misnomer when the goal is learning tools for dealing with Greek and Hebrew texts.

Please take this in the spirit with which it is offered....

I agree with Damian. I also have ordered the resource, but I feel that some are going to be severely disappointed. The advertising is over promising what can be accomplished in 15 short hours. We already have too many "experts" with limited training and experience claiming to know the original languages. Unrealistic advertising may increase sales, but it also runs the danger of unsatisfied customers.

MJ. Smith

So that is why we are focusing on the significance of the data that the software can bring you so the student is equipped to evaluate commentators and lexicons with intelligence.

Got it. The pre-pub title and description hadn't gotten me to focus on it as "how to interpret original language data" - I will be interested to see what people think of the program after using it.

William

When does this product get off pre-pub? I really have no hope of getting it at the 500 price. but am also really pressed for funds even with the 160 price. I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me. I just don't understand how administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed. That seems steep.

Anyway, I am going to try to collect that 160....

(Please Lord, Let me have some time to figure this out.)

William

TCBlack

I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me. I just don't understand how administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed. That seems steep.

It appears steep? Really?

Perhaps it appears steep if you're spreading a small purchase over 3-6 months, but keep in mind a few things...

Even with 750,000 some odd users, Logos is a small company by global standards. To make it "worse" only a small percentage of that group buy more books once they get their collection. Of that group, only a small percentage take advantage of the pricing plan. Granted: I don't KNOW what the real numbers are - I'm guessing based upon what I've read and understood from other semi-related threads and correspondence.

But that translates into Logos, who is not a bank and not a financier having to hire a person or dedicate a person to making sure all of this internal billing, paperwork, follow through (and what happens to "bad debts"?) is taken care of for them. This convenience for users like me who have (and are) using the payment program translates into someone who needs to eat and pay his or her bills, and thus requires a paycheck every week from Logos. So while it may not cost $5 for a printout with your name on it, that person reading, filling, manipulating and working with the information in that printout needs to eat. Beyond that, I'll almost guarantee that $5 is much less than what a credit card would cost you.

Terry Stump

why dont i get any sound when playing the 3 videos? i rebooted and tried different brousers, etc.. thanx

Mark Barnes

I too have ordered the pre-pub and look forward to using the product. To no avail, I nagged my language tutors at seminary to teach me grammar and concepts (which I must understand) as opposed to vocabulary (which I can look up if necessary). This product looks like exactly what I wanted.

Nevertheless, I share the concerns of others that you're overselling this. It's possible this is a cultural thing, and non-Americans are more sensitive to it. Thankfully not all of us live in a country with billboards on every corner and live television sport constantly interrupted by advertising. As a consequence you don't always have to shout to get attention.

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

why dont i get any sound when playing the 3 videos? i rebooted and tried different brousers, etc.. thanx

You may try to update your Flash plugin, or click the "YouTube" link in the corner of the video to try to watch it on their site. Does anybody else have this problem?

Dave Smith

I just have to say this resource is exactly what I've been looking for.

I didn't go to seminary right out of school, instead went to a Bible School that focused on "equipping you with tools for ministry". Which in hindsight translated to applying business principles to church. The church I met Jesus at was in a denomination not known for their theologians.

I'm now in my 30s with a young family and a new passion for establishing worldview based on the Bible. I wish I had a 4 year degree to get into a seminary but at my family's stage I can't go to school but I want to learn how to leverage Logos to study the original languages and evaluate varying opinions from commentaries and lexicons.

Logos software has given me a ton of tools but I don't know how to use them. A lot of the training I see online focuses on the what to do, not the how and why to do it if that makes sense. In other words don't tell me what the button does. But let me know when and why I'd use that button.

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

I too have ordered the pre-pub and look forward to using the product. To no avail, I nagged my language tutors at seminary to teach me grammar and concepts (which I must to understand) as opposed to vocabulary (which I can look up if necessary). This product looks like exactly what I wanted.

Nevertheless, I share the concerns of others that you're overselling this. It's possible this is a cultural thing, and non-Americans are more sensitive to it. Thankfully not all of us live in a country with billboards on every corner and live television sport constantly interrupted by advertising. As a consequence you don't always have to shout to get attention.

That made me smile. Most of the "regular" (non-pastors/students) thought the video was pretty dull :-) I will say that I have seen all the material that will be covered in this course, and how it is covered. These guys are bringing the goods. We are trying something here that no one else has ever done. So we understand the skepticism. It is the tech in Logos 4 that makes it possible to use the language without typical memory work.

Russ Quinn

Reuben,

Would you guys discourage or encourage ministers buying these videos to use in group settings in their churches?

I know there might be some fear that encouraging that would hurt potential sales but I suspect the opposite might actually prove to be true.

I'm not talking about buying one set and passing it around. I'm talking about allowing the purchaser to use his copy in teaching and training others.

{EDIT}

If an individual in the training became interested enough to want to "borrow" the videos, that person should obviously be required their own copy.

To me it should work like any other Logos resource that I use in my public teaching. I can display it publicly but I can't share the files with individuals.

What is the official position on this issue?

{/EDIT}

Kaye Anderson

I will say that I have seen all the material that will be covered in this course, and how it is covered. These guys are bringing the goods. We are trying something here that no one else has ever done. So we understand the skepticism. It is the tech in Logos 4 that makes it possible to use the language without typical memory work.

Reuben, I believe you. While nothing is right for everyone and Mark is right about Americans and our "hype" advertising I think it IS what I need. I can't take courses right now or spend a few years in Bible school to become a scholar capable of translating and teaching but I'm a good self-learner looking for ways to understand God's Word to ME and to let that shine to anyone around me. I know the Holy Spirit can teach me anything...with no earthly tools needed...but I do want to show my willingness to put forth effort, too.

I'm looking forward to "the goods"!

Kaye

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

Reuben,

Would you guys discourage or encourage ministers buying these videos to use in group settings in their churches?

I know there might be some fear that encouraging that would hurt potential sales but I suspect the opposite might actually prove to be true.

I'm not talking about buying one set and passing it around. I'm talking about allowing the purchaser to use his copy in teaching and training others.

{EDIT}

If an individual in the training became interested enough to want to "borrow" the videos, that person should obviously be required their own copy.

To me it should work like any other Logos resource that I use in my public teaching. I can display it publicly but I can't share the files with individuals.

What is the official position on this issue?

{/EDIT}

- Let me get back to you on that.

Bruce Junkermann

Hey Reuben, Got the videos in my prepub list! Looking forward to some very needed training. I graduated from seminary almost twenty years ago and am embarrassed to say that my language skills are not what they once were. I've spent most of my ministry in children's ministry where I have relied on publishers to provide material. Disappointed with the depth of most material and convinced that children can grasp significant concepts if taught well, I've begun to write my own material for our summer discipleship ministry. My hope is that these training videos will help me get the most out of the original texts so that I can be accurate in my exegesis and wise in my interpretation and clear in my application. Thanks again for your efforts. They are much appreciated!

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

Hey Reuben, Got the videos in my prepub list! Looking forward to some very needed training. I graduated from seminary almost twenty years ago and am embarrassed to say that my language skills are not what they once were. I've spent most of my ministry in children's ministry where I have relied on publishers to provide material. Disappointed with the depth of most material and convinced that children can grasp significant concepts if taught well, I've begun to write my own material for our summer discipleship ministry. My hope is that these training videos will help me get the most out of the original texts so that I can be accurate in my exegesis and wise in my interpretation and clear in my application. Thanks again for your efforts. They are much appreciated!

That'll preach! now you just need a poem :-) And I can't agree with you more on exegesis in children's ministry. I found that teaching children (and special needs) from my own exegesis forced me to distill the text to its essence, it forced me to have an even better handle on the text in order to explain it in the simplest way possible. I do know that there are some ministries who are trying to "beef up" kids ministry material.

Reuben Evans (Faithlife)

Reuben,

Would you guys discourage or encourage ministers buying these videos to use in group settings in their churches?

I know there might be some fear that encouraging that would hurt potential sales but I suspect the opposite might actually prove to be true.

I'm not talking about buying one set and passing it around. I'm talking about allowing the purchaser to use his copy in teaching and training others.

{EDIT}

If an individual in the training became interested enough to want to "borrow" the videos, that person should obviously be required their own copy.

To me it should work like any other Logos resource that I use in my public teaching. I can display it publicly but I can't share the files with individuals.

What is the official position on this issue?

{/EDIT}

Russ,

Thanks for asking. Here is what I came up with

"It is a single user license. We can't stop someone from projecting it, but for best results it should be on the student's machine.We will be offering packages for classroom use in the future. Before anybody lays plans they should use the product and gain familiarity with it themselves."

So it is designed to be purchased by the individual students like a textbook. Then they have it for reference and review. My hunch is that if students didn't have their own copy they would get frustrated quickly by not being able to rewind and review. So it is not being sold as a license for 1 per class, rather 1 per student. It looks like there will be some type of bulk discount for educators in the future.

hope that helps!

Michael S. Heiser - Personal Account

I've posted on the forums before, so I hope this goes in the right place!

The way to correctly frame what the courses are about is to firmly grasp that their goal is not to produce people who can translate Greek or Hebrew, but to give people the ability to UNDERSTAND and EVALUATE. Briefly, our goals with the video tools are (1) to inform people how to understand grammatical and lexical discussions in commentaries, articles, sermons, etc. with respect to Greek and Hebrew; and (2) to be able to use Hebrew and Greek tools with enough proficiency that they can evaluate what they've read or heard in a commentary. Frankly, with enough practice, I'd hope people could feel confident to answer questions that commentaries avoid or don't devote much attention to (we've all had that frustration with commentaries). Achieving these goals doesn't require memorizing vocabulary or forms. You could even go without the alphabets, but we recommend them in the videos since the alphabet makes a few more tools accessible.

I should probably relate a bit of my own experience so you understand this rationale. I actually had Greek syntax three times in my classroom career - once as an undergrad and twice in two different seminaries. I never got to anything that resembled what goes on in a good commentary. We spent a lot of time in syntax courses wondering if that genitive was objective or subjective, and whether this aorist was gnomic or something else. It was like filing paperwork. No syntax teacher I ever had asked or answered the simple questions -- the questions everyone in the room wanted to discuss: So, how would I use that syntax observation/decision in a sermon? Where did the observation/decision take me in terms of meaning? Does it affect how I think theologically? It wasn't that my syntax teachers weren't good scholars or teachers. They just had to get through the notes or the textbook. We're not interested in having people memorize the 16 (or 18 or 30+ or whatever) uses of the genitive case, depending on the book. While there is something to be said for knowing that many nuances of the genitive exist, how that knowledge can be used homiletically is not self evident (i.e., it doesn't derive from knowing the grocery list). What most pastors-in-training (and in real ministry) want from their language courses is to have a real feel for why Greek and Hebrew is valuable for preaching. They don't see the point with producing their own English translation since they have many good ones. They won't be writing a commentary. They just want insights into the text that they can transmit to their congregations. They want to feel secure that what they are saying over the pulpit is rooted in the text. The traditional Greek and Hebrew classes one takes in the first and second year of seminary just don't do this well, if at all. Yes, you would likely get to that good stuff beyond the second year, but many pastors-in-training cease their language training after second year since the required courses are under their belt. Since they really haven't seen much payoff after two years of investment (and with some, suffering), the motivation to use up electives somewhere else is powerful. This failure to demonstrate usefulness at the first and second year level is why many seminary students opt for two year programs without language coursework (and therefore why seminaries create those programs). Those programs and students are the target of these video tools (as well as pastors who want a langauge refresher or who hope they get what they really wanted this time around). However, we hope that putting the payoff up front -- showing users that Greek and Hebrew can really put meat into a sermon -- will stimulate more people to jump into traditional courses with all their memorization.

J.R. Miller

I have studied languages in seminary, and I love the vision you have for this series. It should be very helpful!

William

I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me. I just don't understand how administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed. That seems steep.

It appears steep? Really?

Perhaps it appears steep if you're spreading a small purchase over 3-6 months

Yes, It is steep. Even steeper to drag the 160 out to 12 months. (if its even possible)

Even with 750,000 some odd users, Logos is a small company by global standards. To make it "worse" only a small percentage of that group buy more books once they get their collection. Of that group, only a small percentage take advantage of the pricing plan. Granted: I don't KNOW what the real numbers are - I'm guessing based upon what I've read and understood from other semi-related threads and correspondence.

I would think more than a small percentage would add books as new books come out but maybe not.

But that translates into Logos, who is not a bank and not a financier having to hire a person or dedicate a person to making sure all of this internal billing, paperwork, follow through (and what happens to "bad debts"?) is taken care of for them. This convenience for users like me who have (and are) using the payment program translates into someone who needs to eat and pay his or her bills, and thus requires a paycheck every week from Logos. So while it may not cost $5 for a printout with your name on it, that person reading, filling, manipulating and working with the information in that printout needs to eat. Beyond that, I'll almost guarantee that $5 is much less than what a credit card would cost you.

Well, using this in-house buying option produces "bad debt". Maybe just remove the option altogether. As I have thought about it more and performed some mathematical calculations I believe that removal of this option is the most stewardly thing to do with the Lord's money.

Maybe I am thinking too much about the NO DEBT except the house kind of christians. That would prevent sales as was attested to before the program was available.

Win in worldly things but lose in spiritual things. We have enough debt to God let alone other people.

William

P.S. The Lord did provide.I forgot to ask for a weekly paycheck from one job and I just happened to find some stashed money. I do stash money and "forget it." Like Ron Popeal says set it and forget it. [:D]

TCBlack

William, Praise God you found the the funds!

Matthew C Jones

The way to correctly frame what the courses are about is to firmly grasp that their goal is not to produce people who can translate Greek or Hebrew, but to give people the ability to UNDERSTAND and EVALUATE. Briefly, our goals with the video tools are (1) to inform people how to understand grammatical and lexical discussions in commentaries, articles, sermons, etc. with respect to Greek and Hebrew; and (2) to be able to use Hebrew and Greek tools with enough proficiency that they can evaluate what they've read or heard in a commentary.

Dr. Heiser,

Thank you for producing this. It sounds perfectly suited for me. My Greek classes were 30 years ago and I never got a handle on Hebrew. I understand the concerns others have expressed about the content not matching the depth of seminary courses. I am not a pastor or exegete but do enjoy digging deeper into my study of the Bible. I was blessed with getting Word Biblical Commentary recently and have found it richer in content than I recall from my previous exposure. I look at this product more as a guide to using the tools already available in Logos rather than a promise of mastery of the original languages. George Somsel (a local hero on the forum) has pointed out it takes years of diligent study to master Hebrew & Greek. I doubt I have that many years to devote so I will gladly settle for tools like this that open up a richer payoff for my self-studies. This may prove to be the only language study instruction some lay-ministers have access to. Not everyone can go to seminary.

Matthew

Anthony Etienne

I realize there is the payment plan?? but that option really upsets me. I just don't understand how administrative fees of 5.00 per month are actually needed. That seems steep.

It appears steep? Really?

Perhaps it appears steep if you're spreading a small purchase over 3-6 months, but keep in mind a few things...

Even with 750,000 some odd users, Logos is a small company by global standards. To make it "worse" only a small percentage of that group buy more books once they get their collection. Of that group, only a small percentage take advantage of the pricing plan. Granted: I don't KNOW what the real numbers are - I'm guessing based upon what I've read and understood from other semi-related threads and correspondence.

But that translates into Logos, who is not a bank and not a financier having to hire a person or dedicate a person to making sure all of this internal billing, paperwork, follow through (and what happens to "bad debts"?) is taken care of for them. This convenience for users like me who have (and are) using the payment program translates into someone who needs to eat and pay his or her bills, and thus requires a paycheck every week from Logos. So while it may not cost $5 for a printout with your name on it, that person reading, filling, manipulating and working with the information in that printout needs to eat. Beyond that, I'll almost guarantee that $5 is much less than what a credit card would cost you.

I agree with you Thomas, this is a very good convience and the 5 bucks a month is not that big a deal. The interest on the credit cards are 8 times that or more per month.

Anywhoo I just ordered this along with the BDAG and the Hebrew Aramaic Lexicon; after watching all three videos...I realized I was learning some good stuff just watching. As I do not have any Greek or Hebrew language training, this will be a tremendous help to me...at least on how to use the tools related in my Scholars Library

William

I agree with you Thomas, this is a very good convience and the 5 bucks a month is not that big a deal. The interest on the credit cards are 8 times that or more per month.

Anthony, A credit card would charge 40 dollars or more a month for this 160 dollar item? You might want to check your figures again.

Respectfully

William

Rodney Underwood

Amen to that my Brother

Juanita

We're developing a set of HD videos (over 15 hours of content) designed to help you to use Greek and Hebrew tools in Logos without formal training. Or you can use them to help knock some of the rust off your Greek or Hebrew!

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5876

Post here with any questions. And I'll see what I can do to answer them.

Hi Reuben,

Thanks for all you are doing to make this a successful experience for users. I've read the product page, watched the three videos, read all these posts. Would it be possible sometime in the future when it is feasible to provide a more detailed list of the contents, i.e. table of contents? It sounds really good but I don't want to have to return it if it doesn't "fit" where I am and I would rather make that judgment ahead of time. Thanks, again.

Keith W. Neville

I have Scholar's Silver but I don't know what BDAG is, please define...

John Nerdue

Third Edition (copyright 2000)
by Walter Bauer
Edited and revised by Frederick William Danker.

Described as an "invaluable reference work" (Classical Philology) and "a tool indispensable for the study of early Christian literature" (Religious Studies Review) in its previous edition, this new updated American edition of Walter Bauer's Wörterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments builds on its predecessor's staggering deposit of extraordinary erudition relating to Greek literature from all periods. Including entries for many more words, the new edition also lists more than 25,000 additional references to classical, intertestamental, Early Christian, and modern literature.

Jacob Hantla

Is there any idea when these videos will be complete?

Chris Ease

BDAG is the best Greek lexicon. It is a must if you do Greek studies. I also like L&N and Anlex used in combination. Anlex will show all the morphological forms while L&N will give you a semantic meaning.

Luskey Green

These stated goals meet the needs I have had for many years. It is probably under priced for the benefit it will provide.

Luskey

Dave Jones

We are looking forward to feedback from those using the course as to how to improve it and what supplementary courses would be of interest. I think the way to view this work is as a launch into a need area and not a total finished solution. The beauty of Logos created databases is that they can be improved without having to go thru lots of levels of committee approvals.

I would love to see a course on How to Use Logos for studies in Theology, Church History, Preparing Sermons, etc. We would like to have faculty who are creating assignments using Logos 4 in their various disciplines to share these ideas so that we can create videos to assist in pedagogy for the classrooms and other small groups. Some people are better at customizing ideas to their own situation than they are creating all new assignments. For example, I have enjoyed using the Logos Lesson Builder as examples and samples of questions that can be used in small discussion groups.

Gregory Kedrovsky

Is there any idea when these videos will be complete?

I would like to second this question: Does anyone have an idea of when this product will be available. The pre-pub price is very, very tempting, but if the package isn't published until 2012 (or some such far-off date), then the temptation is not as great. I would like to incorporate this series into my Greek Exegesis class for my MDiv work. It's seems absolutely perfect for the class (after the traditional two years of Greek: grammar and syntax). I would imagine I'll use it, too, in Hebrew Exegesis (but, I'll get to Greek Exegesis first). So, if the product isn't published within the next six month (give or take), I won't be able to incorporate it into my class.

Is this something coming out soon? In a week? a month? two months? six?

Thanks!

Greg

Terry Poperszky

I would like to second this question: Does anyone have an idea of when this product will be available. The pre-pub price is very, very tempting, but if the package isn't published until 2012 (or some such far-off date), then the temptation is not as great.

If you sign up for it now, you lock in the price. If it takes longer than you want to wait, just cancel (You aren't charged for it before it is shipped). Frankly, this is going to be a unique resource for Logos users, and while I am hoping that it completes fairly quickly, using it is a couple of lines down on my to do list.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

I agree, it would be very useful to have some kind of ball park figure on when your goal date for this project is!

I think anyone that has taken Greek or Hebrew in school can easily see what you are trying to do with these videos and can see how useful they could be not only to those that have a little bacground in languages but also for those that don't. I love the idea and can hardly wait to see them.

My problem is a limited cash flow, and if these are going to be a while, there are at least three different items that each cost 125-175 dollars each that I would pick up in the near future, if these videos are going to be out in 90 days or more, but if they are going to be out sooner I would not make the other purchases until after I bought these videos, because I see them as being a don't miss item for so many people!

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Gregory Kedrovsky

I have another "newbie" question: Will this Logos package run on Libronix (which is free for download) or does one have to buy a Logos product (e.g. Bible Study Library, Scholar's Library, etc. -- I'm in the process of trying to figure out which package would be the most bang for my wee little limited buck)?

Thanks.

Greg

Praiser

I have already placed my pre-pub order.

I have a question though. Will you be waiting until the Logos 4 feature updates are completed before releasing releasing it, or will there be more updates pertaining to this after the release?

Dale Pritchett

Yes I have an "idea" when these videos will be complete. The materials are all complete in terms of outline and script. All ot the live video segments have been shot and edited. We are now in the process of screen capture for each of the computer segments. There are several more weeks scheduled for screen capture followed by editing and integration into a Logos "book/resource" which will provide the table of contents, video links, suggested reading lists and any additional excercises we might suggest. I would expect that under ideal conditions we would be looking at mid February to early March as the earliest delivery date. I wish I could be more specific but we have never taken on an AV project of this length before. It is however going well and I am very excited about the concept.

Juanita

There are several more weeks scheduled for screen capture followed by editing and integration into a Logos "book/resource" which will provide the table of contents, video links, suggested reading lists and any additional excercises we might suggest.

Thanks for that information about the "when" of the course. I still have a question about the content of the course. If I don't know, for example, the table of contents, then it is difficult to judge the level of difficulty of the course-I want to know before I get it so I don't have to return it if it is too hard or easy.

And there is a mention about suggested readings and additional exercises. Are there other resources I will need to purchase? Thanks for your help.

Jacob Hantla

Yes I have an "idea" when these videos will be complete. The materials are all complete in terms of outline and script. All ot the live video segments have been shot and edited. We are now in the process of screen capture for each of the computer segments. There are several more weeks scheduled for screen capture followed by editing and integration into a Logos "book/resource" which will provide the table of contents, video links, suggested reading lists and any additional excercises we might suggest. I would expect that under ideal conditions we would be looking at mid February to early March as the earliest delivery date. I wish I could be more specific but we have never taken on an AV project of this length before. It is however going well and I am very excited about the concept.

Thanks for the rough projection on this. I promise not to hold you to it, but I'm happy that it sounds like it's sooner than expected.

Matt

Hi, I hope I won't get jumped on for criticizing Logos for this training, but I feel that after investing $3000 in this product since November that I have some right to do so.

To wit: Why is Logos developing such a wonderful language study tool that is going to cost us yet more money, when the help system in Logos 4 is so incredibly and woefully inadequate right now? I would much prefer that Logos dedicate the time and resources to completing the product at hand that people have already purchased and are struggling with (especially in regards to the help system), that they are currently dedicating to a product that is going to require a further outlay of cash.

Thanks,

Matt

P.S. I wanted to post this earlier, but I didn't want to be a downer around Christmas and New Years.

Andy

I have ordered this on prepublication and am looking forward to using
it. I was wondering, however, if you had considered offering this as a
download? I am just mindful that physical shipments significantly add
to the cost for international customers. In my case, based in the UK, I
would expect postage and import costs to add a third to the price.

Bohuslav Wojnar

I was wondering, however, if you had considered offering this as a
download? I am just mindful that physical shipments significantly add
to the cost for international customers.

Yes, yes, yes, please...

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Matt , your point is well taken, they need to improve their helps and their whole out look on teaching us how to use the new program we have just bought!

However, I really doubt that the folks, that are working on this project are the same people that would do the project you are talking about, of course I could be completely wrong about this, but it doesn't look to me like they would be the ones working on this project, instead of the project you are talking about.

I think the real problem is that Logos just does not understand the need for them to do what you are talking about! I wish they did because I believe this problem leaves a LOT of us with a bad taste in our mouths about Logos!

On the other hand I am learning Logos very quickly by using 3rd part resources, thank God for those folks that have taken up the slack that Logos should have taken up.

But until Logos understands that this issue hurts the way we view them, I am afraid they will continue as they have been on this issue.

In Christ,

Jim

Leila Franklin

I have BDAG and no clue how to switch to the Greek alphabet to type a word into BDAG to look it up. What do I need to do?

BillS

http://wiki.logos.com/How_to_enter_text_in_Greek_and_Hebrew

Gregory Kedrovsky

We're getting close to "mid-February" (the earliest this product would be ready). I wonder... has anyone heard anything? Any news about a release date?

Greg

Donald McNeeley

Well here it is Feb 24th and I was wondering what the status is of getting this sent out. I for one could really use this in a coming quarter.