Hello,
I am trying to buy Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics by Daniel Wallace, but I cannot find it in LOGOS. Does LOGOS still sells Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics? Please, let me know.
Thanks!
Does LOGOS still sells Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics?
It seems that it is not being sold at this time. See the discussion in this thread:
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/71015.aspx
It looks like it may become available again something later this year, but Zondervan has an annoying habit of initially releasing books in bundles. We'll have to wait and see.
Thank you!
Check it out! We are now selling it again, but with boatloads of other popular Greek and Hebrew texts, at a fairly steep discount.
http://www.logos.com/product/32713/zondervan-biblical-languages-collection
Now why in Athens would anybody want to buy a whole boatload of grammars and workbooks?
Some guys would need it, maybe, but us hoi polloi ? [*-)]
Check it out! We are now selling it again, but with boatloads of other popular Greek and Hebrew texts, at a fairly steep discount. http://www.logos.com/product/32713/zondervan-biblical-languages-collection
Six months---hopefully we will not have to wait any longer than that for this bundle to be broken up. I'm glad these books are in Logos, but Zondervan announcements lose their excitement by making things only available in bundles. Most people will not want all of these books.
I'm looking forward to purchasing several of the items if and when they are sold individually.
Dreaming of an "addition" to the collection => http://www.logos.com/product/5407/mounces-complete-expository-dictionary-of-old-and-new-testament-words (especially as added bonus for ordering pre-pub collection)
Keep Smiling [:)]
Does anyone know if dynamic pricing applies to the Zondervan collection? To me it doesn't seem so.
There does not seem to be any dynamic pricing for this bundle, yet. But someone who owns more existing works should confirm this.
Isn't GGBTB the only one that Logos has published to date? Also, if the resource is a new edition, Logos considers it a new work.
There does not seem to be any dynamic pricing for this bundle, yet. But someone who owns more existing works should confirm this. Isn't GGBTB the only one that Logos has published to date? Also, if the resource is a new edition, Logos considers it a new work.
Logos does offer a discount for GGBTB. Notice this statement from the product page: "Already have Greek Grammar beyond the Basics? Pre-order the collection without Greek Grammar beyond the Basics for $399.95 until June 20, 2013. Afterward, the price will return to $435.95.Click here to pre-order."
My bad. Either I'd missed it, or it wasn't there when I accessed it earlier. But, it's not dynamic pricing. You'd have to do it manually.
When this is released, will owners of the Galaxie version of Wallace's grammer be upgraded to the newer one for free?
Is the current version of Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics the file GS_GGBTB.lbxlls, with this revision:
LLS:46.20.10262006-05-19T19:42:11Z
If so, will this be updated to a .logos4 file when the update comes out if we purchase the 34 volume upgraded (which is without GGBTB)?
I have read nothing so far that suggests that what is being offered is a revised version. It doesn't seem like a revised version to me.
"...but with boatloads of other..."
This is not a positive thing.
I'm really displeased with the direction Logos is moving with respect to bundles. It seems we have increasing numbers important resources locked away in prohibitively expensive bundles. It's frustrating enough when one new resource I want is bundled with a ton of other stuff (Beale's NT theology in the mess that is the Baker bundle). But it's even more frustrating to see that a resource could previously be bought as a stand-alone and now must be purchased with $400 of other material.
This is a step backwards for your customers.
Now why in Athens would anybody want to buy a whole boatload of grammars and workbooks? Some guys would need it, maybe, but us hoi polloi ?
Some guys would need it, maybe, but us hoi polloi ?
Well maybe if you are really into the languages. Also if you want to keep up your Greek and Hebrew after seminary. I'd love to have the Practico Hebrew Cards on Logos. I must admit it that this bundle has caught my eye. It is pricey but it looks like a great bundle.
Cheers,
ChelseaFC
I agree with what's been expressed above – $400+ for these resources isn't a "deal."
I want the Mounce textbook, the Pratico-Van Pelt textbook, and Wallace's intermediate Greek grammar.
I already own these in paper form along with the flash cards, audio CDs, and video lectures (those are expensive and they're not even included in this bundle! Neither are the flash cards).
Honestly, I should be able to get those three books for $100 or less. If not, I'll just keep using my paper copies. I don't refer to them every day, but I do use them regularly. But, for $400+? Absolutely not.
I'm really displeased with the direction Logos is moving with respect to bundles. It seems we have increasing numbers important resources locked away in prohibitively expensive bundles. This is a step backwards for your customers.
I'm really displeased with the direction Logos is moving with respect to bundles. It seems we have increasing numbers important resources locked away in prohibitively expensive bundles.
It could be a publisher decision in some cases, rather than a decision by Logos marketing. We don't have all the details.
It either case, it is too much for the few resources I want out of the bundle.
Possible but unlikely. Logos' competitors don't seem to have this problem; so either Logos is terrible at negotiating with publishers or it's something Logos is doing intentionally.
It could be a publisher decision in some cases, rather than a decision by Logos marketing. We don't have all the details. Possible but unlikely. Logos' competitors don't seem to have this problem; so either Logos is terrible at negotiating with publishers or it's something Logos is doing intentionally.
[Y]
[Y][Y]
Let's remember that many bundles are broken up, but usually not as soon as many of us would like. On one occasion, however, I swallowed hard, bought a bundle of older, advanced grammars, and learned just a few months later that it had been broken up. I console myself with the possession of several books I would not have bought separately, but which are becoming more useful to me as I consult them. My point? Patience remains a virtue (that often eludes!).
Pre-publication progress is Almost there! in a couple days:
When the bundle is broken up, I wonder if individual Gk volumes would cost more or less than ¢15 a page? What do You think?
I have to wonder what many of You think about: why they bundle several Biblical languages together? Do they think that students in long seminaries are the only current customers? The first thing I'm going to study is classical Gk in uni. Then theology in college. Then Biblical Gk in college. In that order because the admission requirement to Biblical Gk is that You have to have studied 1 year (full-time, but You can study some of it part time if You want) theology:
Well maybe if you are really into the languages. Also if you want to keep up your Greek and Hebrew after seminary. I'd love to have the Practico Hebrew Cards on Logos. I must admit it that this bundle has caught my eye. It is pricey but it looks like a great bundle:Now why in Athens would anybody want to buy a whole boatload of grammars and workbooks? Some guys would need it, maybe, but us hoi polloi ?
I noticed the bundle includes one volume I (and someone else) suggested: Campbell. Basics of Verbal Aspect (Greek) (2008).
It is a Logos policy, and they've commented on their reasons before. Often there are bundles that includes some very popular books, and some no-so-popular but still important books. If they split them up on pre-pub, only the popular books would make it into production. Bundling allows them to make more books.
Trouble is, they aren't just bundled on pre-pub, but also when the books have completed the development cycle.
I've always held to user choice. To keep "popular" books in bundle with other books is, I think, a wrong decision. That is why I hope it isn't a Logos decision.
I have to wonder what many of You think about: why they bundle several Biblical languages together? Do they think that students in long seminaries are the only current customers?
I do think it would have been nice to have a Hebrew bundle and a Greek bundle. This way if you aren't interested in everything you could have at least choosen your preferred language and it probably would of been at a lower cost..At the end of the day though, if you like it you buy it, if not then you'll wait till it's broken up to decide. It's really not that difficult, although this is the main points many people are making in the thread and that's okay.
If people are really not pleased with these bundles then they need to stop buying them - that's not happening so obviously the majority are voting with their credit cards and Logos would be silly to not continue this practice.
True and well said.
After much agonizing thought I placed an order. Then I came to the same conclusion as you did and cancelled the order.
While I don't think that is it necessarily the majority of people, enough people are buying it to enable Logos (and Zondervan) to continue the practice.
A practice that only makes sense when considered from a business perspective and cannot be claimed to be "for the benefit of customers".
Few here, need one package with resources targeted at different audiences and needs: those who only need "Greek tools", beginners, intermediate, and advanced students.
It does not help that many of the resources are redundant and their inclusion in a single package does not make sense from a customer perspective.
This is a reminder that the companies involved are businesses and not ministries (they know they have a few "hot" resources and they will milk it as much as they can).
I will stick with print volumes , from a stewardship perspective I cannot justify spending $400 for the 35 volumes when I only "need" 4-10 volumes. That and the fact that I would be encouraging the practice.
How come the "Upgrade" is being processed through Checkout instead of Pre-pub Quick Buy? Is the upgrade ready to download or are we paying in advance for a Pre-Pub? When is this expected to ship? When does my card get charged? Anyone know? I've got other Pre-Pubs in the pipeline and need to know.
from a stewardship perspective I cannot justify spending $400 for the 35 volumes when I only "need" 4-10 volumes. That and the fact that I would be encouraging the practice.
I wish they would offer the single volumes at a price similar to dead tree pricing (please apply generous academic pricing for those required to purchase) Then they could also offer the bundle at deep discounts for those who are interested in accumulating volumes. Some of us would prefer to pay $100-$150 for the 4-10 that we want and others prefer to spend the $400 for 35 (even though 3 of those "35 volumes" are only 4-page guides).
I realize that single volumes will become available in 6 months. So I will just wait for GGBTB to become available as a single volume purchase at that time. If I were taking a Greek II course this fall, I might not be able to wait for the bundle to break up.
It is a Logos policy, and they've commented on their reasons before. Often there are bundles that includes some very popular books, and some no-so-popular but still important books. If they split them up on pre-pub, only the popular books would make it into production. Bundling allows them to make more books. Trouble is, they aren't just bundled on pre-pub, but also when the books have completed the development cycle.
True, but if they made it a habit (or even a policy) to split the bundles up immediately after publication, less people would go in for the pre-pub.
Deep(er) discounts on pre-pub bundles would prompt people to commit on them while lesser discounts on individual items would allow people who need a particular resource at a particular time (e.g. for a class) to buy just that item.
by finding the users who are motivated by urgency, commitments for high-demand products will allow Logos to recover their upfront investment quickly.
One could look at this through the lens of economics and game theory, and do the math, but...
It looks clear to me that the intrinsic value of many of these bundles is being propped up artificially by the removal of choice, rather than appropriate price adjustments. Which leads to the conclusion that the bundles really contain elements that are too incompatible in terms of type and value.
I decided to go with the bundle based on the substance of what's offered. How much is a couple seminary semesters of Biblical languages, before you buy the books? Most of what one does in school is read and study and memorize the textbooks information and then you go over it in class. You don't necessarily need all the classes, but you really do need the books. I realize it's a big chunk, but language study is a core skill for those who want to cut God's truth straight.
Do You think the individual volumes will cost more or less than ¢15 a page?:
Adam Rao, doing the maths, You are saying that those three books should cost ¢5½ a page (512+448+864 pages)?:
I want the Mounce textbook, the Pratico-Van Pelt textbook, and Wallace's intermediate Greek grammar.[...]Honestly, I should be able to get those three books for $100 or less. If not, I'll just keep using my paper copies.
I figured it all out everyone. The checkout is only the long version of the Pre-Pub order process. I always use Quick Buy so it looked different to me. If you order it you still have to wait on the ship date and your card is not charged until it ships.
New thought: I have one good reason it might serve some well to order this "redundant content" bundle. Different students will have different results when using different learning materials. I myself have attempted to learn Hebrew 3x now with varying degrees of failure. Some of my homeschooled children will flourish with one text and struggle with another. If one does not work well I can try a different text and often overcome whatever issue they had with the subject. Depending on the pedagogical views of the texts in this bundle just about anyone should be able to get a handle on their target language. It is still cheaper than that "Rosetta Rock" software.
Has anything been said regarding how the audio & workbooks will be integrated within Logos? Will we just receive a bunch of mp3s, or will it go beyond that?
Also, what will doing excercises in the workbooks look like?
Has anything been said regarding how the audio & workbooks will be integrated within Logos? Will we just receive a bunch of mp3s, or will it go beyond that? Also, what will doing excercises in the workbooks look like?
I want the Mounce textbook, the Pratico-Van Pelt textbook, and Wallace's intermediate Greek grammar.[...]Honestly, I should be able to get those three books for $100 or less. If not, I'll just keep using my paper copies. Adam Rao, doing the maths, You are saying that those three books should cost ¢5½ a page (512+448+864 pages)?:
I think he is using the price of the hard copy as a basis. The books can often be bought at a discount.
This bundle would be perfect for someone who:
(1) needs texts on Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic;
(2) is learning the languages (many of the texts are introductory level);
(3) needs these Zondervan texts for all three languages.
That's a whole boatload of assumptions. On the other hand, I can think of many people in different situations who would only need a few of these works. That's why these works were authored, published and sold separately in the first place. Unfortunately, they are not being sold at this granularity now.
I want the Mounce textbook, the Pratico-Van Pelt textbook, and Wallace's intermediate Greek grammar.[...]Honestly, I should be able to get those three books for $100 or less. If not, I'll just keep using my paper copies. Adam Rao, doing the maths, You are saying that those three books should cost ¢5½ a page (512+448+864 pages)?: I think he is using the price of the hard copy as a basis. The books can often be bought at a discount.
Exactly. I paid $31 for Mounce, $29 for Pratico-Van Pelt, and $27 for Wallace = $87.
This bundle would be perfect for someone who: (1) needs texts on Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic; (2) is learning the languages (many of the texts are introductory level); (3) needs these Zondervan texts for all three languages. That's a whole boatload of assumptions.
That's a whole boatload of assumptions.
They are not far-fetched assumptions. I've heard the new trend is for doctoral candidates to have two foreign languages in addition to any classical languages. Multilingualism is very common among the higher educated. Familiarity with these languages is achieved with introductory texts like these. Fluency comes with further study.
This collection includes some of the most acclaimed texts in print. If your professor is not teaching from one of them, I'm sorry. And even if your education is limited to one pedagogical approach, you can bet your Greek professor is well versed in multiple texts. Aspire to surpass your teacher.
I'm not sure many institutions subscribe to an all Zondervan approach, especially when it comes to introductory texts. Personally, I don't see why I should be sorry if I had to learn from a textbook other than Mounce or Pratico. There are plenty of good alternatives. In fact, I am of the view that BBG-3e has some drawbacks compared to BBG-2e. But that's just me.
We shall have to leave the argument at that. Whether this bundle addresses the needs of a typical seminarian or language student, rather than an atypical situation, time will surely tell. But the fact that they are not sold as a bundle by other retailers, leads me to an a priori assumption, which perhaps many share.
Well ... I know what I need, and it sure ain't the whole boatload of it. [:)]
Well ... I know what I need, and it sure ain't the whole boatload of it.
Someday my ship will come in. [:D]
Well ... I know what I need, and it sure ain't the whole boatload of it. Someday my ship will come in.
Someday my ship will come in.
Dude...(sweet hubby of mine)...how many books do you need? You already have a Titanic boat load of books!!! [:P]
