Upgrade From One Base Package To Another

I do not own any version of Logos yet. Basically, I want to know how feasible (and/or how cost effective) it would be to buy a package (Starter or maybe Gold, for instance), then upgrade that to a higher package, like Portfolio, later on. Sort of to get a feel for if I think it's worth it to shell out whatever it will cost to upgrade.

So, two parts:

1. Is it possible?

2. Is it cost-effective? (Will I be paying the same amount to buy Portfolio outright as it would to buy Starter then Portfolio combined.)

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Comments

Kevin Maples

1. Is it possible?

Yes, I started with the Scholar's package and then moved one package at a time up to the Platinum package.

2. Is it cost-effective?

It is reasonably cost-effective. By progressing one package at a time, it cost me about $300 more than if I had bought the Platinum package outright to begin with.

You will get credit for the Starter package when you upgrade, but not the full amount you paid for it.

Another option to consider: Logos has a 30 day refund policy. You can purchase the Portfolio and try it out. They also have financing, so you don't have to pay up front.

Hope this helps.

Mark Smith

Ben, good question.

Starter is so inexpensive it won't contribute much to a real big upgrade. It also lacks many of the features in the higher end packages (Gold and above) so won't give you much of a taste of what Logos can do.

Starter+Minimal Crossgrade would be a better test, but you still will have some gaps because of missing resources.

I wonder what you hope to do with Logos. I am a pastor and do not find Portfolio appealing. My suggestion for most serious Bible students is to go to Silver or Gold, save your money and buy specific resources you want beyond that.

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500341#Comment_500341

I am not a student in a Bible school, but I do consider myself a student of the Word and am hungry for better resources.

I read this review (http://jeltzz.blogspot.com/2012/11/logos-logos-5-and-why-their-sales-model.html). I agree with the author that it is unfortunate that features are a part of the packages, and not just content. It's not clear at which package I would have all of the features. Do I truly need Portfolio to get all of them, or are Logos.com just using marketing to make it appear that way. For instance:

Portfolio states "You’ll get every single Logos 5 feature[...]"

Platinum, Diamond, & Portfolio all state "All 53 of Logos 5’s most impressive features"

Yet Gold only states "Logos 5 Gold comes with all our features" & "All of Logos 5’s amazing features[...]"

Also, regarding getting something like Starter+Minimal Crossgrade: will that get me all of the Logos 5 features? If so, that would be a pretty good deal.

Another thing I noticed is that I can get a 10% discount on all the base packages. I only created an account and downloaded the free book of the month. So it pays to signup before you bu.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500347#Comment_500347

The minimum crossgrade provides the bare minimum set of resources to make all the new features work.

I think it costs ~200$?

Kevin Maples

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500347#Comment_500347

I agree with the author that it is unfortunate that features are a part of the packages, and not just content. It's not clear at which package I would have all of the features.

I think you are misunderstanding the packages. Logos made a commitment 22 years ago, not to sell code, just resources. So you don't buy the software, just the resources. What you are encountering is that the features require resources to work, i.e. you can't link to a map you don't own. The minimal crossgrade is a set of resources needed to take advantage of the Logos 5 features.

I have been using Logos for two years now and love it. I use it everyday sometimes for hours at a time. It is expensive, but the value is excellent. I have spent a fair amount of money so far buying new books and packages, but I have gotten soooo much for my money.

Maybe you should call Logos and speak to a sales rep. They could probably help you understand a little better. Also, there is an academic discount if you are a student, so if that is in the near future for you, you might want to consider that option.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500347#Comment_500347

Scroll down to the Datasets section of the base package comparison chart and you'll see which packages have which datasets. The features which are missing in some of the lower packages are usually absent because they rely on one or more of these datasets. I can't think off the top of my head of any feature which is enabled in a higher package simply because they arbitrarily felt like keeping it back from people who payed for fewer resources. I'm pretty sure the gradations in features are all tied to datasets, but I might be wrong.

Here's a chart that shows what features require datasets included in a base package:

http://wiki.logos.com/Upgrade_or_Crossgrade

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500347#Comment_500347

Yet Gold only states "Logos 5 Gold comes with all our features" & "All of Logos 5’s amazing features[...]"

That is correct. Beyond Gold you are just adding resources.

The Minimal Crossgrade + Starter gets you virtually all the features and a small group of resources.

I assume you have looked at the Logos packages comparison chart. The left most column is the Minimal Crossgrade. To the right of that is Starter.

Logos is a Library system so its features work better the more resources you have. If you are a lay person, I'd think about statring with Gold if you can afford it, then add some commentaries like the Tyndale Bible Commentary and a multi-volume Bible dictionary like the ISBE, Rev. Another great addition is the IVP Essential Reference Collection.

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500359#Comment_500359

The Minimal Crossgrade + Starter gets you virtually all the features and a small group of resources.

It was kind of hard to divine that from the comparison, but now that a few of you state it, I can see it clearly now.

So just regarding features (not extraneous resources), are there any differences between Minimal Crossgrade + Starter and Gold packages?

Further, you suggest that a lay-person such as myself will find use for all (or some) of those extra resources in Gold?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500363#Comment_500363

Further, you suggest that a lay-person such as myself will find use for all (or some) of those extra resources in Gold?

Welcome [:D]

Gold and higher includes => UBS New Testament Handbook Series and => UBS Old Testament Handbook Series

Thankful for Logos payment plan option plus periodic sales. Thankful for upgrade to Logos 5 Portfolio (albeit done in several increments).

Keep Smiling [:)]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500363#Comment_500363

So just regarding features (not extraneous resources), are there any differences between Minimal Crossgrade + Starter and Gold packages?

Yes. Once again looking at the Datasets section of the comparison chart, neither the Minimal Crossgrade nor Starter have the following:

Greek Pronunciation Addin with Erasmian & Modern Data Sets
New Testament Genre Coding
Tooman Literary Genre Coding of the Old Testament

You would need Minimal Crossgrade + Bronze at a minimum to have all the datasets.

Further, you suggest that a lay-person such as myself will find use for all (or some) of those extra resources in Gold?

I would say the best resources that only come with Gold or above, which would all be of use to a serious lay student of the Bible, are:

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT) (10 vols.)
The Creeds of Christendom (3 vols.)
Christian Origins and the Question of God Series (3 vols.) (by N.T. Wright)
The United Bible Societies' NT Handbook Series (20 vols.)
The United Bible Societies' OT Handbook Series (29 vols.)
The Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer (5 vols.) (Silver and above)

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500363#Comment_500363

Further, you suggest that a lay-person such as myself will find use for all (or some) of those extra resources in Gold?

In addition Gold has the Black's NT Commentary series which is solid and not too technical and The Theological Dictionary of the New testament for NT word studies.

Silver and higher have the New American Commentary which gives you coverage of most of the Bible. You also get the Early Church fathers at Silver and higher, You won't have all the Logos 5 datasets at Silver, but can add the Minimal Crossgrade to Silver for just a few dollars (since you have most of the Minimal Crossgrade in Silver already) and then have them all.

So Silver + Minimal Crossgrade or Gold would be my recommendation.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500359#Comment_500359

Yet Gold only states "Logos 5 Gold comes with all our features" & "All of Logos 5’s amazing features[...]"

That is correct. Beyond Gold you are just adding resources.

The Minimal Crossgrade + Starter gets you virtually all the features and a small group of resources.

I assume you have looked at the Logos packages comparison chart. The left most column is the Minimal Crossgrade. To the right of that is Starter.

Logos is a Library system so its features work better the more resources you have. If you are a lay person, I'd think about statring with Gold if you can afford it, then add some commentaries like the Tyndale Bible Commentary and a multi-volume Bible dictionary like the ISBE, Rev. Another great addition is the IVP Essential Reference Collection.

I have taught Sunday School for over 40 years and have developed a large print library.

I started with the basic package about 5 years ago. After I was convinced that Logos was for me, I upgraded to Gold (the highest at the time). I upgraded to Platinum when it became available. I have added a number of sets to my base pkgs. I now have over 3,000 volumes in my Logos library.

Mark's recommendations above are excellent suggestions. There are a number of great reference works that are not included in any base packages. I think that the IVP Essential Reference Collection (and the OT volumes in that series) is an excellent unique resource that everyone should consider.

When Logos introduced Logos 5, they made available a number of those highly recommended sets at very good prices if purchased at the same time as the L5 upgrade purchase. I don't know if that offer is still available to someone buying L5. It is certainly worth asking a salesman about.

The usual recommendation on the forum for a new user is to buy the largest base pkg they can afford. That is the best advice from a strict economic viewpoint. It does not take into consideration the other Logos titles that should be added to the base packages.

I would recommend the Silver package and use the dollars saved from the Gold package to supplement with additional reference works. Wait and watch for sales. Logos has monthly sales and several major sales during the year. Develop a wish list (from other users suggestions, etc.) and wait for it to go on sale.

Silver gives you all the features except Bible Sense Lexicon. That feature can be added for just a few more dollars without having to pay the price of Gold.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500417#Comment_500417

the advice I would give you.. don't follow what I did.

you want to know what I did? I bought Logos5-Gold to begin then upgraded to Platinum then upgraded to Diamond .. all done in 3 months time.

what a hassle. If I would've known things I knew know back then, I would've gone straight to Diamond package.

and yes, Portfolio is an overkill. (too many books we would not read or open)

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500434#Comment_500434

the advice I would give you.. don't follow what I did.

you want to know what I did? I bought Logos5-Gold to begin then upgraded to Platinum then upgraded to Diamond .. all done in 3 months time.

what a hassle. If I would've known things I knew know back then, I would've gone straight to Diamond package.

I would agree with you that you should purchase the best package that you can afford. It will cost you more in the long run to keep adding and changing but that is sometimes the only way people can do it.

Portfolio is an overkill. (too many books we would not read or open)

I would not necessarily say this. It really depends what resources you want and would use in your library. I have not regretted upgrading to Portfolio.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500434#Comment_500434

I think both Diamond and Portfolio are overkill. Platinum is good only if You wanted Gold but in addition to that want the Anabaptist commentary set called the Believer's Church Bible Commentary.
The UBS Handbook NT (included in Gold) is really good and suits a serious lay-person well, I have it in Accordance since I got it used for $90 + a license transfer fee of $25, from a reliable person (who is both a Logos and Accordance user). There is also an upgrade set in Logos: UBS Handbook Series Upgrade (6 vols.), the upgrade set is not included in any base-package because it's not done yet, it's in "pre-pub". The price goes up once it's live.
I think that Gold and Platinum contain too many commentary sets.
Just like many others, I would also add reference works separately. IMO the best one is: New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (5 vols.).
I would also add: The Revised English Bible with the Apocrypha ... it's a really good Bible version, my main version for large parts of the Bible, and it's necessary if You use UBS Handbook. It's still in pre-pub but it ships soon, so hurry to get it at the lower price!
I would not add additional Bibles beyond these.

Silver contains some reference works, many of which are OK such as the ODCC, rev. ed.. The functionality of Silver is excellent.
Bronze is pretty bare-bones and probably not what You want since You asked whether there is a premium added to the upgrade price at every upgrade. Bronze can be good though if You have funds to add a lot to it.
I would not recommend Starter to almost anyone, I think it's lacking about everything that everyone wants. To some, who only want the bare minimum setup, I would instead recommend the Core Datasets and no base-package:

If I would've known things I knew know back then, I would've gone straight to Diamond package.
and yes, Portfolio is an overkill. (too many books we would not read or open)

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500475#Comment_500475

Portfolio is an overkill. (too many books we would not read or open)

I would not necessarily say this. It really depends what resources you want and would use in your library. I have not regretted upgrading to Portfolio.

I agree. There may be a lot of resources that you may not use, but if you add up the cost to purchase the resources that you WOULD use, then you will find that Portfolio MAY be more than worth it. Not to mention the fact that there will be resources that you did not know that you would use, but once you have them, they become indispensable!

Joseph Turner

I do not own any version of Logos yet. Basically, I want to know how feasible (and/or how cost effective) it would be to buy a package (Starter or maybe Gold, for instance), then upgrade that to a higher package, like Portfolio, later on. Sort of to get a feel for if I think it's worth it to shell out whatever it will cost to upgrade.

The first thing that I would recommend is to call sales for your order. They may be able to discount the price more than the website. I would call Dave Kaplan at 360-685-2304.

I would also not go lower than Gold (since you mentioned that possibility, I assume you are good with the price), and as noted earlier, you have 30 days to return your software with no worries. You could also return it and downgrade if you decide you like the software, but you don't need all of the resources in Gold, or whatever you chose.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500488#Comment_500488

Not to mention the fact that there will be resources that you did not know that you would use, but once you have them, they become indispensable!

Yes! I have had that experience on many occasions.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500347#Comment_500347

I read this review (http://jeltzz.blogspot.com/2012/11/logos-logos-5-and-why-their-sales-model.html)

That review is based on a number of false assumptions. Partly, I guess, because it was written just after the launch, at which point Logos' communications were anything but clear.

I agree with the author that it is unfortunate that features are a part of the packages, and not just content.

As explained above, the code is there, even in the free engine. You just can't use all of it, precisely because you don't have the necessary content.

Yes, they could have included all that content in the lowest base package, but that would have made it considerably more expensive, and it would have made an awful lot of people mad that Logos forced them to pay huge sums for specialized databases they have no need for. I mean, I've done both Greek and Hebrew, and I've used Logos for nearly three years, and I still don't have a clue how to use the Syntax Search. Why then should a lay person with two hours a week to spare be forced to pay for an expensive syntax database?

Most of the people who come here insisting to 'get all the features' probably end up not using half of them. Some of them are simply very very specialized, and for each new version of Logos they get even more specialized.

Starter+Minimal Crossgrade

Make sure the purchase is done in two steps, so that you get credit for the first item when you buy the second and don't end up paying for some books and databases twice. And also make sure to buy in that order. Minimal Crossgrade+<base package> will almost certainly be more expensive.

(Note: the Minimal Crossgrade is an exception to the rule. With normal base packages everything in the lower is included in the higher, so you should always buy the highest directly.)

Another thing I noticed is that I can get a 10% discount on all the base packages.

Talk to a sales rep and see if they can't get you more. Or wait until there's a sale with at least 15%.

the free book of the month

Have you discovered the other free books at https://www.logos.com/products/search?start=&sort=pricelo&pageSize=60 and http://vyrso.com/products/search?q=&start=0&sort=pricelo&pageSize=60? And the usually very cheap books at http://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Community+Pricing&start=&sort=progress&pageSize=60?

(I'm not sure, but it's possible that downloading certain of the free resources in the first link might bring the price for the base packages down a few cents. Please try it with the Lexham English Bible and come back and report. It would be interesting to know.)

neither the Minimal Crossgrade nor Starter have the following:

Greek Pronunciation Addin with Erasmian & Modern Data Sets

New Testament Genre Coding

Tooman Literary Genre Coding of the Old Testament

You would need Minimal Crossgrade + Bronze at a minimum to have all the datasets.

A cheaper option would be to add the Logos 4 Minimal Crossgrade. (Don't worry about the price, it will go down once you've bought an L5 package.)

When Logos introduced Logos 5, they made available a number of those highly recommended sets at very good prices if purchased at the same time as the L5 upgrade purchase. I don't know if that offer is still available to someone buying L5.

It is. Go to http://www.logos.com/basepackages#compare, choose a base package, and then click Customize. That will get you to the first set of offers. The even better ones come when you click the next button, which I think is labeled Proceed. Do not miss those offers. Many of them are by far the best prices I've seen Logos make available.

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500496#Comment_500496

(I'm not sure, but it's possible that downloading certain of the free resources in the first link might bring the price for the base packages down a few cents. Please try it with the Lexham English Bible and come back and report. It would be interesting to know.)

I downloaded everything currently free on logos.com and vryso.com (including the Lexham English Bible) and it looks like I can save $7.71 on Portfolio or $9.16 on Gold. Strange that I would save more on Gold. Though it's possible that's the same price I would have gotten before all the free books.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500513#Comment_500513

Strange that I would save more on Gold.

Not strange at all. The price/volume is lower in Portfolio, so the discount/volume will be lower as well.

Great, now I know how to save people a few more bucks.[:)]

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500496#Comment_500496

When Logos introduced Logos 5, they made available a number of those highly recommended sets at very good prices if purchased at the same time as the L5 upgrade purchase. I don't know if that offer is still available to someone buying L5.

It is. Go to http://www.logos.com/basepackages#compare, choose a base package, and then click Customize. That will get you to the first set of offers. The even better ones come when you click the next button, which I think is labeled Proceed. Do not miss those offers. Many of them are by far the best prices I've seen Logos make available.

What about this scenario: If I were to buy a lower base package + a set(s) at the lower customized price, then later upgraded to a higher base package, would I also then be able to get those great "customized" deals?

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500532#Comment_500532

What about this scenario: If I were to buy a lower base package + a set(s) at the lower customized price, then later upgraded to a higher base package, would I also then be able to get those great "customized" deals?

The way it works currently, yes. No guarantee about the future.

Btw, if you upgrade within a short period of time -- officially 30 days, but sales reps can usually tweak that a bit -- you should make sure that the rep 'returns' your first package and sells you a 'new' one, rather than just selling you an upgrade. The price will be better that way.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500532#Comment_500532

Ben,

One thing to keep in mind with your situation (similar to mine), is that there are a lot of original language tools that are added in the larger packages. Many of those who are recommending the largest packages are able to use those tools, so they are of great value to them.

That was one of the reasons that I recommended the Silver pkg and spending your additional funds adding more usable tools for you.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500540#Comment_500540

Not sure if this was a special circumstance or not...

But when I upgraded from L5 Silver to L5 Platinum, it had been about 6 months, and they were able to return L5 S and the minimum cross grade, and apply all my money towards the new package, and give me the same initial discount.

The sales person initiated the conversation because I had been looking at the higher level base packages.

I ended up getting ~40% off platinum(incl student discounts), and have a 100$ monthly payment.

RGP

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/500532#Comment_500532

Ben,

I may be able to help you with your purchase.

rpat AT hushmail DOT com

Thanks.