Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget

P A

Could you (Logos user) design a better package?

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

You can assume the new pastor has been to bible college. The pastor never heard of Logos until he left bible college.

Two options

A) with no Greek OR

1 year Greek

Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.

This exercise might be helpful for those on a limited budget and who don't like the look of the current base packages on offer.

P A Geeked

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Comments

Lynden O. Williams

P A, Silver package clocks in at 999.95. I think this is a good start, plus you have a year to pay it off.

Justin Cofer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503410#Comment_503410

P A, Silver package clocks in at 999.95. I think this is a good start, plus you have a year to pay it off.

Agreed. Silver is what I would recommend. If the pastor wants a starter package for under $200, then I'd recommend the IVP collection. Best bang for buck, and its on sale for little over $100 often.

http://www.logos.com/product/8588/the-essential-ivp-reference-collection-version-3

Rick

I, am not a pastor, so I might be disqualified from giving input, but.... I still think that it would be neat if Logos offered some sort of a "Build it Yourself" package. For instance, they could give you a list of 20 commentary sets and you get to pick X amount of them and so forth with all of the other types of resources such as Bibles, word studies etc.

Doing it like this would allow a pastor to tailor the package that they would use optimally. They know their education level and such much better than a standard pre-built package.

EDIT: The more that you are willing to spend, the more resources that you will be entitled to recieve from the given lists.

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503457#Comment_503457

I still think that it would be neat if Logos offered some sort of a "Build it Yourself" package.

I doubt that anyone who has purchased a Base Package is 100% happy with the Resource selections that Logos made. I know I have a bunch that I would be just as happy to throw back (MyTag:UGH). As a result, a $1000 Silver Package, even though the price is relatively low, might actually be very costly once one sorts the wheat from the chaff. Thus, a B-I-Y package makes a lot of sense.

I'd guess (and it is only a guess) that the appearance of "dynamic pricing" is an indication that they are quietly trying to do exactly what you suggest. But adding all 35,000 resources into one giant pricing algorithm sounds rather daunting and possibly prohibitive. However, smaller B-I-Y packages that break down along, say, Pentecostal/SDA/Reformed/Weslyan/Evangelical/Catholic/Greek/Hebrew/Text Crit/Higher Crit/Exegetical/etc. lines would be far more manageable.

Speculation only.

Mark Smith

All of the current packages suffer from commentary starvation. To me, the commentaries a pastor would most value would cost the $1,000 price (or close to it) you are looking for if not more.

I think your price point is simply too low for a real pastor's "library." Three times that gets you a lot closer. Sorry about that, and it wasn't your question. Most seminary/Bible college educations cost way more than $1,000. A car does. Why think that a pastor can feed and minister to his congregation with a $1,000 Bible study expenditure? I know that sounds a bit harsh, but it is the reality. Better to give your pastor money to spend on books as he wishes than put together a package he might not use because he'd feel limited.

Now if he just needs a little search help in the Bible and a few inexpensive public domain commentaries, you can do that for way less than $1,000 in Logos and most other Bible software programs.

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503463#Comment_503463

... commentary starvation.

This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503468#Comment_503468

... commentary starvation.

This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!

For a few practical sermons it could work, but I don't know about going a very long way because not everybody necessarily agrees with Boice's theology and what could be nutritious diet for you may not be for others. Personally I own a few of his volumes and like the Bible says "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." I try to get whatever good moral principles I can from his writings, but I find myself disagreeing with him a lot due to his theology.

Plus, that's not a base package. My recommendations are: 1) Try to get your church to help you buy your "tools" for ministry (Logos if you wish - I highly recommend it) or 2) Get a free software that contains several commentaries and save yourself $1000 bucks for some special add-on to your free software that some times some of the resources required a purchase to obtain them.

Blessings!

DAL

David Ames

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

A) with no Greek

Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.

To bad everyone [so far] is on the "Expensive" side of Logos.

A new pastor at a Catholic Church could spend a lot less - and it would be useful for his entire career. [[The advantage of a unified church]]

Verbum Basic $269.95
Plus
Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.) $49.95

Even if he upgraded to:
Verbum Foundations $489.95 or
Verbum Scripture Study $889.95

He is still under the grand limit

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503473#Comment_503473

If the pastor had been to Bible college, he would most likely have a basic commentary set even if it is print. He could use that to start and leverage it to pay for more later in Logos. While Silver is weak on commentaries, commentaries are still secondary to doing your own mining.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503463#Comment_503463

I think your price point is simply too low for a real pastor's "library." Three times that gets you a lot closer. Sorry about that, and it wasn't your question. Most seminary/Bible college educations cost way more than $1,000. A car does. Why think that a pastor can feed and minister to his congregation with a $1,000 Bible study expenditure? I know that sounds a bit harsh, but it is the reality. Better to give your pastor money to spend on books as he wishes than put together a package he might not use because he'd feel limited.

I agree with this. A plumber who is starting out will have to find about $12,000 to buy all the tools he would need. Is the work of ministry less important? Is a minister less in need of tools to do his job?

Personally, I would recommend a minister buying his first package should get what I've listed below. I've deliberately chosen these as being excellent packages that offer a heavy discount when bought with a base package (several are half-price, one is an 80% discount). Assuming a 15% discount for Gold (fairly easy to get), that comes to just over $3,682. A payment plan would make this cost around $157/month for two years, or $36 a week. I think that's great value for all these excellent tools. What's particularly appealing about this collection is that Gold is free! That is, if you remove Gold from your shopping cart, then the price goes up by $142. That's how significant some of these discounts are.

Of course, I'm not saying that you shouldn't go into the ministry unless you spend that sort of money. But I am saying that in many other professions there are significant start-up costs, and I'm not sure I see why the ministry should be any different.

PS - You can save a little more on Gold by joining SBL for $109. That nets you a 25% discount and a total price for Gold+membership of $1,271 (a saving of $40). You might save even more by NOT joining SBL, but discussing that option with a sales rep!

PPS - At a glance, the person buying this package would get all the Logos tools, and hundreds of resources, the most important of which are :

Technical Commentaries

Exegetical Summaries
Keil & Delitzsch
NICOT/NICNT

Intermediate Commentaries

Bible Speaks Today
Black's NT Commentary
Calvin's Commentaries
New American Commentary
Tyndale Commentaries
UBS Handbooks

Expository Commentaries

Boice's Expositional Commentaries
Holman NT Commentary
Matthew Henry
Welwyn Commentaries

Bible Dictionaries

Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary
Baker Encylopedia of the Bible
Dictionary of Biblical Imagery
IVP 'Black' Dictionaries: Jesus and the Gospels, Paul and His Letters, Later NT and its Developments, and New Testament Background
Lexham Bible Dictionary
New Bible Dictionary
New Dictionary of Biblical Theology
New Dictionary of Theology

Lexicons

BDAG
Brown-Driver-Briggs
Liddell & Scott
TDNT
Theological Lexicon of the NT
Theological Lexicon of the OT

Interlinears

Greek NT
Hebrew OT
Septuagint
Apostolic Fathers

Systematic Theologies

Berkhof
Shedd

Other

Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha in English
Concise OED
Early Church Fathers
Works of Francis Shaeffer

Allen Browne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503525#Comment_503525

Wow, Mark. That's actually a pretty useful package you put together there. lt is probably more than someone starting out might consider, but I must say that it's a pretty good combination of what a serious Bible student is actually likely to use.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503527#Comment_503527

lt is probably more than someone starting out might consider

I agree with that, but the attraction of the initial discounts, coupled with the possibility of a 2 year payment plan, coupled with the fact that when you begin your first 'job' after college is a great time to set a budget, means I still think it's appropriate for someone starting out. (Although that obviously depends on personal circumstances, of course.) The payment plan will cost you $120 over the period, but you'll save far more than that through the discounts available when you buy the base package.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503529#Comment_503529

Excellent recommendation, Mark. Great leveraging of the package discounting.

I routinely see people trying to sell auto mechanics' professional grade tool chests for $8,000 or more. Without tools.

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503545#Comment_503545

I also failed to get in your $1000 budget.

No Greek base -

Verbum Foundations - 490 (Gets you ECF as well as a variety of Bible translations and useful addins cheaper than anything else)

Luther's Works - 259

Anchor Bible Dictionary - 270

IVP Reference - 190 (but on sale for 100 now)

Bible Speaks Today - 100 (NT only, but good value)

Tyndale Commentaries - 225 (Value)

Totaling $1534 (minus sales)

Greek Based

Bronze - 630

Luther - 259

ABD - 270

IVP Ref - 190

WBC - 700 (All sets have their pros and cons, but this is the best value, IMHO)

Totaling 2049 (again, minus sales)

Rich DeRuiter

Could you (Logos user) design a better package?

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

You can assume the new pastor has been to bible college. The pastor never heard of Logos until he left bible

What kind of pastor, what kind of ministry, what kind of church background?

Logos is basically designed for Bible-centered ministries. A career chaplain would need a different set of resources than an expository preacher. A youth pastor would need a different set than a minister of Christian education. Also, is this a Catholic church, a Pentecostal church, Reformed, Main-line, Evangelical, Fundamentalist? To whom does he/she minister: blue collar, professionals, inner city, suburbs, rural, is this a college town, and how well do these folks know their Bibles?

Then what is the his/her basic ministry style? Administrator, team-leader, teacher, pastoral care, evangelist, etc.

There are way to many unknowns here to create a meaningful package for every new pastor, possibly even most of them.

This is why Logos' shotgun approach in the base packages is so helpful. Even if you do not include the "chaff" (as it was characterized earlier), I have found that base packages are almost always the most economical way to build a meaningful library. I've been using Logos since version 1.6, and this has been true since I first started comparing what I could do apart from base packages, and what a base package gives me. I only include works I want as I calculate the savings. I always find base packages to be tremendous bargains (YMMV). I must also say that more than once, I was surprised to find that some of the 'chaff' have proved to be quite helpful later on.

If I want to be a handy-man around the house, I'll need some tools. I could go and buy a screwdriver, an adjustable wrench, and piece-meal a set for myself, or I can go looking for a tool set. The advantage of the tool set is that it is more likely to have tools that I don't anticipate needing, but I will need sooner or later. I might not know I need a 9/16" (roughly 14mm) socket to tighten that nut in a place that an adjustable wrench simply won't fit. But if I have the tool kit with that socket, I can find what I need. And the tool kit is almost always less expensive than buying what I need one piece at a time.

I always recommend a base package as the best and most economical way to begin with Logos, and the most economical way to grow one's library. Which base package depends on the person, of course, and their study needs. What I would do is look at the base packages with them, and decide what that person really wants in terms of commentaries, original language texts/lexicons/etc., Bibles and other resources. Look at their budget and between the two (money and needs/wants), find their "sweet spot." For most expository preachers (like me), it will probably be the current "Silver" or "Gold" package. For the more academically minded and financially 'comfortable,' Platinum, Diamond and Portfolio might be their best entry-point.

JC54

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503574#Comment_503574

The answer to all the questions is easy.

We assume that the pastor did some theology studies on a university which gives you 50 percent on base packages (like mine) and wise as he is he puts together his package under this circumstances :P, no matter what you add, the price tends to be right!

Robert M. Warren

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503525#Comment_503525

Personally, I would recommend a minister buying his first package should get what I've listed below.

I'm not a pastor or in the market for that level of resources, but I'm certain Mark's advice here will be very valuable to those who are. It would be a good post to favorite for when advice to others is needed.

Kent

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503669#Comment_503669

The answer to all the questions is easy.

We assume that the pastor did some theology studies on a university which gives you 50 percent on base packages (like mine) and wise as he is he puts together his package under this circumstances :P, no matter what you add, the price tends to be right!

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

elnwood

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503721#Comment_503721

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

Source? That seems rather unbelievable to me. There are gobs of Southern Baptist bible colleges around. Of the eight largest seminaries in America, five of them are Southern Baptist. 40% haven't had any college? Really?

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504129#Comment_504129

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

Source? That seems rather unbelievable to me. There are gobs of Southern Baptist bible colleges around. Of the eight largest seminaries in America, five of them are Southern Baptist. 40% haven't had any college? Really?

Indeed - I am attending one. However I know three maybe four pastors personally who would fit that category.

Also the SBC is a large denomination.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503721#Comment_503721

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

I'm beyond the age of someone going to seminary (some Bible school after college) and my decision to go with Logos was based on the value it provides me by comparison to seminary. Even if I went to seminary, I'd still need Logos.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504399#Comment_504399

I think this whole thread is creating a false dichotomy or two...

Firstly that one cannot be a pastor and not have a massive Library. There are good pastors in the third world, and in difficult countries that are doing well to have a full copy of the Bible.

HOWEVER I do believe standing on the shoulders of those who've gone before can take a good pastor and make him great.

Secondly that a pastor MUST have ALL the tools he might possibly need right from the start.

We are not plumbers, first day on the job we are not going to need a pipe snake.

As pastors in the digital age, should we encounter someone who needs a pipe snake, we can buy its equivalent from Logos, and clear their plug, and move on. It is NICE to have everything you can imagine needing in advance. However with the cloud and instant delivery, for a few dollars, one can acquire what tools one needs as one goes.

All that said, I have i think in the neighborhood of 4000 titles.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504428#Comment_504428

I think this whole thread is creating a false dichotomy or two...

Firstly that one cannot be a pastor and not have a massive Library.
Secondly that a pastor MUST have ALL the tools he might possibly need right from the start.

[Y]

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504428#Comment_504428

A good question to ask, is: how much primary texts are needed?

I'm thinking of paying Post-Reformation Catholic Thought and Piety (27 vols.) that I bid on in CP, it's $70. Anyone knows whether it would be good to have? How edifying are these texts? This afternoon I bought a cheap printed book in Swedish that had very brief excerpts and biographies of a few of those. They seem decent. But it's still difficult to decide.
Also wondering whether I should get Worship in the Early Church: An Anthology of Historical Sources (4 vols.) for $99? I have the first volume as printed matter.

Anthologies and select works would save time, I'm just wondering are these good value for the money? I got the first volume in the Worship in the Early Church: An Anthology very cheap as printed matter.

Also, would I have use for this: The Works of Aristotle (12 vols.) It would cost me $40. What could it be used for? I'm not very fond of philosophy, but it seemed a little less strange than Plato.

I have a long-term budget, (Creating a budget and cancelling orders) but have been placing pre-pub and CP orders for too many $ on April 26. 2013 and June 30. - July 9. 2013, and the list of open pre-pub orders is starting to look too expensive at this stage (there may come better works in the future which I would prefer over the ones that exist now).

Those dates I've been placing especially Church History, recent Pauline scholarship and primary texts orders. What worries me about the major Church History pre-pub order, is I regret it if there comes better books in the future! Also: reviews say that it's a bit dry. Another thing that worries me about it, is that it probably doesn't deal enough with "Gnosticism".

(Of all the open pre-pub orders and CP bids I have, many will make it into production in a distant future, so even though I've been placing a lot of pre-pub and CP orders in a relatively short amount of time, they will spread over years.)

I have more questions in: Outdated and expensive.

When it comes to the OP, I might recommend: Catholic Practicum: Learn to Use Logos Bible Software ... it helps choosing among Catholic books! And there's tuition how to use the software. Plus a bit of Gk.
Another bit of advice is that I would wait with buying a base-package, and see if there comes any changes to them in the Winter or Spring, considering that base-packages are changed more frequently than the frequency of major software versions.
I would of course recommend The Revised English Bible with the Apocrypha, Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (3 vols.), A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, Proverbs, The Bible in Human Transformation: Toward a New Paradigm in Bible Study.

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504428#Comment_504428

I think this whole thread is creating a false dichotomy or two...

I am admittedly standing in a quite different place that most of you in this discussion. First of all, I am not clergy, and am not even lay leadership other than occasionally singing a solo, leading a Psalm, reading, or assisting with distribution. I am on no church boards. I currently teach no lessons, etc... Second, I am a member of a body that does requires her pastors to graduate from a seminary with a Master's degree and a year full time internship before ordination. This talk about pastors without even an undergrad degree is a different world for me.

But that said, while I understand that if Jesus can grow in wisdom (Lk 2.52), our pastors, with the help of God can as well. This side of the grave we are all works in progress, so to speak. But there is a reason for the requirements in 1 Tim 3. But I don't want someone who "knows it all" - in fact, THOSE people in my experience don't know anywhere as much as they think.

But tough pastoral problems that will tax what you know will come your way. Heck - some of them have happened to me. It has been said that experience is the worst teacher because it gives the test before the lesson.

And while having a large library is helpful, it is much more helpful to know what is in there already - and that means study. In Bible Studies I do have my laptop there, and at times reference it as an aid to memory. And yes, sometimes when a topic comes up I will quickly check some reliable reference works for details. But to do this I have to know where to look, and the format and, well, context of what I look up - and that takes study ahead of time.

At best, our Logos libraries give access to knowledge. But wisdom of how to apply it? That comes with prayer and experience.

SDG

Ken McGuire

PS - I did just get a new Pastor - and he does have a larger Logos library base package than I (Platinum vs. Original Languages)

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504460#Comment_504460

Also, would I have use for this: The Works of Aristotle (12 vols.) It would cost me $40. What could it be used for? I'm not very fond of philosophy, but it seemed a little less strange than Plato.

As a reference if you do any studies on ethics and social thought.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503468#Comment_503468

... commentary starvation.

This would go a very long way towards feeding the poor with a highly nutritious diet!

Yes, but the poor would soon be hungry again, and the $1,000 would be gone. Mark is talking about feeding peoples' souls for a lifetime. In addition, teaching the Word of God correctly should result in many more people feeding the poor.

You might as well say the carpenter should sell his hammer, saw, and other tools to feed the poor. Not a very wise way to go about it, and it shows a real lack of understanding about the tools of a carpenter's or pastor's work.

You can be a carpenter without good tools, but you can be a better pastor with good tools. Same is true for a pastor. Good tools cost some money.

I agree with Mark on this. What he wrote is quite true.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504129#Comment_504129

Am I going senile, or is it true that the original poster has not commented any further on this thread?

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504594#Comment_504594

Am I going senile, or is it true that the original poster has not commented any further on this thread?

Paul just issued this as a challenge. So far, not that many of us have responded to his $1,000 limit with a good library. I don't think he meant that this was necessarily something he wanted to take advantage of. More theory than anything.

I am sympathetic to those who pastor with what Charles Spurgeon called 'slim apparatus.' I had little money for a big library as a young pastor and my church couldn't help much at that point. Things have changed and I am able to afford what I feel I need and the church can be very supportive. I know not everyone has what I have.

I think comparing a pastor in a developed country with one in a third world country is not completely helpful in this discussion. Many of us in more developed countries with greater levels of higher education, highly secular media, and whose people have access to a universe of information over the media and the Internet may have issues to deal with that most of our brothers and sisters in under-developed countries do not have to deal with. Many resources have been developed to help with those issues and many of us find them highly valuable in our ministry.

I also believe that many of our brothers and sisters with only a Bible to do ministry would be delighted to have more. I am sure most of them feel the need for it, just as they do for more training and education.

We're clearly well off focus here, so I'll sign off, but in developed nations (my frame of reference) a good tool-kit is something few pastors would not profit from and I suspect all but a few would desire. They don't need it all at once and probably are not ready to make the best choices just starting out. But they will want it, and I am sure will benefit from it as their congregations also will.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504642#Comment_504642

Tools for Gk don't seem cheap enough to be included in the $1,000, but I think they (the language) are/(is) necessary.

I had another suggestion which is really good, but I'm not going to make the suggestion as I think people should be clever enough to place the order without it having to be included in a future base-package first (it starts with N), I will have it both as printed matter and in Logos myself:

We're clearly well off focus here, so I'll sign off, but in developed nations (my frame of reference) a good tool-kit is something few pastors would not profit from and I suspect all but a few would desire. They don't need it all at once and probably are not ready to make the best choices just starting out. But they will want it, and I am sure will benefit from it as their congregations also will.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504647#Comment_504647

Tools for Gk don't seem cheap enough to be included in the $1,000, but I think they (the language) are/(is) necessary.

Academic package => http://www.logos.com/product/27551/biblical-languages has many Biblical Language resources for $ 749.95

Academic pricing for resources that are required for class can be attractive.

Keep Smiling [:)]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504499#Comment_504499

At best, our Logos libraries give access to knowledge. But wisdom of how to apply it? That comes with prayer and experience.

SDG

Ken McGuire

PS - I did just get a new Pastor - and he does have a larger Logos library base package than I (Platinum vs. Original Languages)

[Y]

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504811#Comment_504811

Thanks a lot, Evan!
Anyone more who could answer some of my questions in this thread (or the other thread Outdated and expensive)?

EDIT: Symptomatic: I just placed another pre-pub order on a collection consisting mostly of theology, history and NT works incl. 1 on how to study patristics.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504888#Comment_504888

Unix, your best bet is going to be to make a new thread.

... And I don't mean make a thread that simply has links to this thread, and the other.

Re-state succinctly what you are wanting to know. Give it an intriguing title, and then more people will read it.

Burying it at the bottom of the second page is less likely to get your post the attention that you need.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504460#Comment_504460

Would You recommend me the Catholic Practicum DVD? Many of the beliefs of the Roman-Catholic Church I don't believe in, but I do believe in Purgatory in Afterlife, and that works matter! (I'm not considering purchasing any other instruction videos, either made by Logos or someone else.) I have Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software since before, which I got for $203.37 including postage:

When it comes to the OP, I might recommend: Catholic Practicum: Learn to Use Logos Bible Software ... it helps choosing among Catholic books! And there's tuition how to use the software. Plus a bit of Gk.

Wayne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503721#Comment_503721

According to the SBC 40% of their pastors have no college. A program like Logos is their college and seminary.

According to the thesis that I found online the actual number is closer to 10%. We have visited one such SBC church and the pastor is a carpenter by day and pastor by weekend. I know there is a significant number of small rural churches that don't have a pastor with formal training.

Nine of 10 Southern Baptist congregations have the services of an ongoing pastor,
either regular or interim. The typical pastor is 48 years old. The majority of Southern
Baptist pastors have college degrees and seminary degrees. Only 1 in 10 Southern
Baptist pa'Stors has no formal ministerial education. The typical tenure for pastors is 4
years.28

28Phillip B. Jones, "Executive Summary of Southern Baptist Congregations Today, September
2004 [Research Report online]; available from http://www.namb.net/atfi.cf{COA250E8-8866-4236-9AOCC646DE
1534463} Southern _ Baptist_Congregations Today-pdf. Internet; accessed 5 August 2005.

THE ROLE OF THE PASTOR IN SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCHES:
A BIBLICAL VIEW VERSES A PREVAILING VIEW

Submitted to Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/503473#Comment_503473

The challenge

Design a new package for new pastor on limited budget of $1000 and this will have to last for next 5 years!

A) with no Greek

Rules. You must base your package on current Logos prices, however you are allowed to take advantage of current discounts.

To bad everyone [so far] is on the "Expensive" side of Logos.

A new pastor at a Catholic Church could spend a lot less - and it would be useful for his entire career. [[The advantage of a unified church]]

Verbum Basic $269.95
Plus
Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.) $49.95

Even if he upgraded to:
Verbum Foundations $489.95 or
Verbum Scripture Study $889.95

He is still under the grand limit

David,

I believe that the resources in the Catechism Collection are all part of the Verbum Basic. ... I think?

I might be inclined to start with Verbum Foundations as it add Aquinas' Summa and Sunday Homilies and John Henry Newman's corpus along with additional datasets and other goodies. Here is an interesting scenario:

Verbum Foundations: $490

Liturgical Press Reference Collection: $110

Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI Collection (14 vols.): $169

Apostolic Constitutions and Exhortations of John Paul II and Benedict XVI (51 vols.): $70

Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament, Genesis, Exodus, and the RSV2CE: $45

Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of the Body: $26

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church: $18

Missals of the Roman Catholic Church (3 vols.): $70

I think that gets you to $998 total. ...and a very nice start.

Mike W

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504642#Comment_504642

I am sympathetic to those who pastor with what Charles Spurgeon called 'slim apparatus

I find it interesting that today I can find free online resources that are much better and far more extensive than the library I started out with at the first church I pastored (including better original language tools). I believe I would have been ecstatic to have the collection that Mark suggested (although I would like to add the WBC to that when it goes on sale). I also feel blessed that today we are can have library on a laptop that is better than the cemetery seminary library at the school I attended [<:o)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/539787#Comment_539787

I assume seminary is for creedal understanding / checkoffs. That how I figure out where an author sits, absent buying his book anyway.

In congregations that embrace local 'management' accompanied by elders (theology here; not arguing), anything not readable in the text might be interesting but not significant (meaning what goes 'home' with the believer is what matters).

Personally a pastor that went to school is suspect right off. In the COC, one couldn't possibly 'preach the Word' and go to the wrong Bible college. Not this side of Heaven, anyway.

But, I'm always impressed that NT leadership descriptions didn't include 'ability to read' (though many try to get 'study' squeezed in there).

My logic is that you find almost no one quoting text until a century later after Paul's demise. Of course some nasty liberals suggest there's a big reason for that.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/539811#Comment_539811

So, would You recommend me the Catholic Practicum DVD? - EDIT: I'm sad no-one seems to be willing to advice me here!
This morning someone confirmed to me again (after the initial interest) that she wants to be my friend. We haven't talked about denominations, but I doubt she is Roman-Catholic as that's not a large denomination in this country. She lives in a university-town where there is a small Roman-Catholic uni. That's not that far from here, but the train is quite expensive and there are no discounts, so I won't ever afford taking many classes there, I've been thinking of only one class (on the Old Testament, but of course it would be nice to take the next Old Testament class after that there). Instead I'll be taking most of the classes in nearby universities here in the City (ticket is somewhat inexpensive with a discount but it's still a lot of money for me so sometimes I'll be bicycling there).

Frank Sauer

I've been looking through this thread the past couple days and I believe the original intent of the OP may have been misunderstood by many or maybe I have misunderstood it. However it reads to me that the OP was challenging Logos users to design what may be considered a "dream package" for a new pastor but with the guidelines that it needs to stay in line with current Logos pricing for current base packages.

So for example take the Silver and keep the ones you think are good, cut loose all the "fluff" resources and replace them with resources more valuable to a new pastor. Yes there would be less resources overall at the same price point but ultimately it could be a better package.

Seems like a fun challenge.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/539979#Comment_539979

I didn't misunderstand at all.

The question is dependent upon what the pastor will preach. If it's heavy 'exegetical', then the price tag is going to go up. So Mark's thoughts. If the preaching is going to be heavily dependent on litergy, etc, then the price will drop considerably. And if (like me), the Holy Spirit said what He said, then the Bible is sufficient. No budget is necessary.

It's a cute question but one that presumes ones theology.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/539979#Comment_539979

So for example take the Silver and keep the ones you think are good, cut loose all the "fluff" resources and replace them with resources more valuable to a new pastor. Yes there would be less resources overall at the same price point but ultimately it could be a better package.

But the very purpose of the packages is to help both the customer and the company. The customer is helped by getting a large number of books cheaper than they could individually purchased. The company is helped by selling the fluff. Without the fluff there is little incentive for the company to have such packages. You can't make a package of all high quality stuff and the company make a profit.<\P>

Besides, one man's fluff is another man's treasure.<\P>

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/504460#Comment_504460

From my July 9. post:

The Bible in Human Transformation: Toward a New Paradigm in Bible Study.

... it's now on November sale for $7.95!