BDAG/BAGD confusion

Why does everyone call the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature BDAG (Bauer, Danker, Arndt & Gingrich) but its abbreviated title in Logos is BAGD (Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich & Danker)? I know I can change the abbreviation to whatever I want, but I'm just wondering if this is metadata that should be fixed, or are there two legitimately used shortcuts for this resource? Which one is "preferred"? (Acronymfinder.com lists both.) I seem to recall something about the acronym for this changing when a new edition came out. The edition listed on Amazon.com is called BDAG (on the front cover); it's the 3rd edition. It's not clear whether this is the edition included in my Logos library. The cover image in my library looks like the older edition (I wish I could zoom to see a larger version of the icon to make out the text on it; I'll submit that as a suggestion). Was the older edition called BAGD? Do I not have the latest version that Logos ships? (The current Logos edition listed on their website is very clearly the 3rd edition with the newer cover art.) Is it free for me to upgrade to the newer version? If so, why hasn't this happened automatically when I sync resources? This is what I've got now:

Incidentally, the authors are listed in my Logos library in the order: Arndt, Gingrich, Danker, and Bauer, which isn't either BAGD or BDAG, and it isn't even alphabetical, so where did that come from?

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Rich DeRuiter

Why does everyone call the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature BDAG (Bauer, Danker, Arndt & Gingrich) but its abbreviated title in Logos is BAGD

BAGD (copyright 1979) is the predecessor to BDAG (copyright 2000). They are much the same but BDAG is a revised and completely reformatted work, making it easier to use for Greek students (and Logos users!).

Robert Pavich

Rosie,

Because the new edition IS called BDAG [:D]

Edited to add...."man! Richard beat me to it!"

Bobby Terhune

This resourse dates way back to the beginning on Logos 2.0 in 1995 and was included on their level 4 package. When the 3rd edition came out around 9 years ago the publisher asked Logos to only sell the newest edition. What you have is important and not available anymore for sale in Logos, BDAG is improved, especially with Dankers extended definitions, but it did change the way some words were given definitions, and not all scholars were thrilled with Dankers changes. So its good to have both editions to use compare words sometimes. BDAG is now the "Standard" lexicon for serious work in Greek. FWIW I still find value in seeing the changes in definitions between the two editions.

Rosie Perera

So, to clarify further, the new Logos resource is a completely new resource, not an upgrade from the older edition? If I bought it (not likely; it's so pricey and not very different from what I've got already), it wouldn't replace what I've already got, but I'd have both?

Mark Smith

it wouldn't replace what I've already got, but I'd have both?

Correct.

Bobby Terhune

Well, I would have to say it's worth the investment, since Logos put a tremendous amount of tagging and linking into it. Logos stopped any improvements to the 2nd edition in 2000 and as you know so many books have been added to Logos and that gave the links a destination to go to. The definitions are extended and that make them more understandable than the very abreviated definitions in the 2nd edition. unfortunately BDAG is not one of the titles that the publisher lets go for a modest price.

TCBlack

Nobody mentioned it, but the "D" moved up, I understand to underscore Danker's extra input in this edition.

Rosie Perera

Well, I would have to say it's worth the investment, since Logos put a tremendous amount of tagging and linking into it. Logos stopped any improvements to the 2nd edition in 2000 and as you know so many books have been added to Logos and that gave the links a destination to go to. The definitions are extended and that make them more understandable than the very abreviated definitions in the 2nd edition. unfortunately BDAG is not one of the titles that the publisher lets go for a modest price.

Thanks, Bobby, for explaining the differences to me. I'll add this one to my wishlist too, and maybe (praying!!) it will show up on one of the last few days of "12 Days of Logos." It's just too expensive to justify buying otherwise. :-(

Mike Childs

Ah, but life was so much simpler in the good ole days when there was just BAG. Or maybe it was just me that so much simpler.

Al Het

Okay, it sounds like I'm the only guy that got mandatorily "upgraded," and lost the old version.

I bought Logos 2 in 1996 (Level 4), which included BAGD. Somewhere along the way, I was "upgraded" to BDAG, and my BAGD went away. Strangely, it sounds like others got to keep their older version.

Not a really big deal to me, but strange, as it sounds like many others have been able to keep their BAG.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

Okay, it sounds like I'm the only guy that got mandatorily "upgraded," and lost the old version.

I bought Logos 2 in 1996 (Level 4), which included BAGD. Somewhere along the way, I was "upgraded" to BDAG, and my BAGD went away. Strangely, it sounds like others got to keep their older version.

Not a really big deal to me, but strange, as it sounds like many others have been able to keep their BAG.

I'm wondering if it may be due to the version that you had may not be compatible somehow with the Logos version you have now. Also, BAGD is referenced and linked to from some resources (I forgot which one). On a side note, it would be good if they bring that version back as they have with the ISBE, if for nothing more than for the links to work correctly.

Bruce Dunning

I bought Logos 2 in 1996 (Level 4), which included BAGD. Somewhere along the way, I was "upgraded" to BDAG, and my BAGD went away. Strangely, it sounds like others got to keep their older version.

You might want to contact Customer Service about this.

Al Het

I'm wondering if it may be due to the version that you had may not be compatible somehow with the Logos version you have now.

Not sure. I believe I lost it somewhere in the Libronix period.

On a side note, it would be good if they bring that version back as they have with the ISBE, if for nothing more than for the links to work correctly.

Makes sense.

Al Het

You might want to contact Customer Service about this.

I might do that. I didn't realize until this thread that others had kept their old version.

Mikael S

1) Is it realistic to, living in a small a bit distant country where English is not the first language of most people (besides that I'm not going to travel a lot), to look for and think I'll find some friend who is very interested in Theology/Exegetical work, who will perhaps co-author a book together with me? The person would not yet have to be on a really advanced level of studies but should be a bit open-minded so as our theologies (not methodologies) would not clash too much, but not as open-minded as having completely opposite beliefs to mine. The nearest seminary is small and some Months I barely have time to be there at all. I don't need to find such a person hurriedly, the question is whether finding one is realistic in the long run? I don't seem to alway have time to attend either Church or seminary. In seminary most students are currently up to 10-15 years younger, which doesn't hinder that much but they may not perceive me as being their generation and being used to living with the kind of ultramodern entertainment which has grown popular or understand how young adults of today spend their time and how to be friends, they may be right about all this but I am more used to young adults than they are guessing I am and I do use laptops and to some extent tablets (although not for viewing entertainment or video lectures).

2) Can I keep using BAGD for 2-3 decades from now? I like it. Will my scholarship especially when authoring a book, be considered outdated if I refer to BAGD say in the year 2037 (which is the date I predict to publish)? (No I don't think another new Edition will come out until then nor would I afford to buy it.) I do have a possibility to check BDAG but not at all times - I may have to uninstall software and re-install, as other softwares than Faithlife's have limitations regarding on how many computers You are allowed to install and I'm trying to choose and predict on which computer to install everything at the same time that might be the computer I wish gets the least wear so that I can keep using it for a very long time. And so I don't always have the possibility of comparing side-by-side, depending on which computer I'm at and whether I can carry two computers (question being if that helps more than hinders me and whether I can work at hours when there's enough desk space) and whether I'm at and the amount of available RAM. In any case I will not have BDAG and BAGD installed simultaneously in the same software, ever! I will have limited funds to buy more books that reference a specific Edition of a lexicon directly and links to it.
I sometimes in current blog posts and book see authors stating that BAGD is the academic standard, do You think it's a typo or that they actually mean that BAGD is the minimum standard and if You can use newer it may be better but BAGD may suffice for some time or up to a certain level?

3) Will the 1979 BAGD suffice in the first semester of second year NT Greek?:BDAG is improved, especially with Dankers extended definitions, but it did change the way some words were given definitions, and not all scholars were thrilled with Dankers changes. So its good to have both editions to use compare words sometimes. BDAG is now the "Standard" lexicon for serious work in Greek. FWIW I still find value in seeing the changes in definitions between the two editions.

Joseph Turner

Can I keep using BAGD for 2-3 decades from now? I like it. Will my scholarship especially when authoring a book, be considered outdated if I refer to BAGD say in the year 2037 (which is the date I predict to publish)?

Hello again Unix! I will answer this part of your very long and detailed posting, as it is the easiest and most closely related to the OP. I would think if you are writing an academic book, you would indeed need to use the most current version of BAGD/BDAG, or whatever might be out at the time of your research/publication. It would be generally frowned upon to use an outdated volume in current research. The real benefit for me when I bought BAGD was that it filled in all of the links from other resources in my library that referenced it; however, I would still refer to BDAG first when doing current research.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

The real benefit for me when I bought BAGD was that it filled in all of the links from other resources in my library that referenced it; however, I would still refer to BDAG first when doing current research.

With 60,891 BAGD links in my library that currently show do not have a resource license, would appreciate BAGD being added to BDAG bundle (preferred) OR application update so clicking BAGD link opens corresponding BDAG location.

Dreaming of BAGD resource unlock for BDAG owners due to 599 Logos resources having BAGD links. Likewise dreaming of linking BAGD and BDAG for comparison of Danker's update with previous work.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Unix

Hi, Joseph!
Large parts of the book will be academic, I will also be writing about life choices and choices regarding consumption, plus history, reading lists and perhaps chapter or verse-level English Bible version recommendations (if I deem it neutral enough vis-á-vis the readers when it comes to the English language will also include the order of priority how I use different English Bible versions for large chunks of the Bible each - see the signature of my Mikael S post where You can see links to Bible version discussion and in one of the posts I missed to paste a facebook link - the facebook link is in that signature right next to the link to the discussion post in question), and a bit of psychology and IF I think I have something to say also a few things about environment pollution concerns and what a regular poor person can do about that most effectively.
I'm thinking the book might be slightly more broadly appealing if I reference both BAGD and BDAG. My idea is to keep using BAGD throughout most of the process of researching and authoring the book, and when I find some time check whether I can spot BDAG and NIDNTTE (using Accordance for those two) saying something which contradicts BAGD. 4) I would prefer to be able to, in the final book, to tell both what the current research says about definitions and usage of words, with context, and what BAGD used to say. Do You think that will somewhat effectively contribute to the content of the book? Thereby readers equipped with lexicons from different periods of time should be able to read and benefit from my book and conclusions. As I'm interested in history I also have an interest in tracing things back in time - when were research results reached and concepts first defined? I will do my best with the tight budget I have and especially the somewhat large amount of books and journals I've already gathered (paying at least 75% myself, the rest my parents have paid and it doesn't look like it will be them paying any future books - I even myself wanted a shift in focus when it comes to the purposes for which I ask them), but as history tends to bury things I have to put a disclaimer into my book that I must have missed or not having afforded some sources or not paid for tickets to go to museums libraries within reach to really read each print source that looks promising. Even so what I'll find in old books will help readers as prices have likely gone up some by then or books having only been on very brief sales since then. The effort, if someone who reads my book finds it valuable, will help some to in general keep to books that are slightly old instead of investing in the very newest - I think that is both very interesting for both me and readers and something to put a bit of effort into both by educating myself (taking classes) and do searches, as I've casually spotted lots of examples of people using really dated works - in vain I might point out because if they would have paid only very slightly more and would have been guided to the right books they would have got a lot more bang for their bucks as I doubt they thought that really old books are automatically better (there are not too many books as old as they were usin that are worth having).
Lastly, I'll just say this: that I know some of the most recent lexicons really contribute, but a climate where just about everyone with some language skills uses the current lexicons for everything might be a bit overkill - due to that the biggest obstacle often times is the gaining of and keeping good ancient language skills:I would think if you are writing an academic book, you would indeed need to use the most current version of BAGD/BDAG, or whatever might be out at the time of your research/publication. It would be generally frowned upon to use an outdated volume in current research. The real benefit for me when I bought BAGD was that it filled in all of the links from other resources in my library that referenced it;

If I don't stop things I will loose some money all the time. I had thought this Spring it would be a great thing to keep subscribing to Logos Now or switch to Verbum Now, but my thought right now is that I won't need continuous maximum search expression possibilities and I see it as unlikely that I'll afford upgrading to version 7 or need enough of it try to find/prioritize the money, so even with the enticing offer that base-packages will be cheaper for loyal subscribers if I don't get a bit better finances this Summer I'll skip both Logos Now and upgrading. What I had been considering was Logos 7 Anglican Silver i.e. same level which I was at when I previously upgraded (only having added permanent license to Bible Sense Dataset since then and nothing else of much offline use).