Church licence?

I'm sure this has already been answered somewhere before, although sadly my searching didn't find anything.

Is it possible for more than one person to use a single logos licence?

I'd like to buy several commentaries and commentary sets to add to my logos library. However it would be the church that pays for it, and if I bought print copies other staff members could use them. Is there a way to have a licence that is designed for use by churches with a staff?

I simply can't see the advantage in buying the logos version over print if i'm the only one allowed to read it.

Any advice?

thanks.

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Comments

NB.Mick

http://www.logos.com/support/EULA - it suffices to read the topmost summary.

Bruce Dunning

Welcome to the forums Tim. Hope you return often.

The simple answer to your question is "no". Logos is licensed to one user and each person must get their own. This is especially the case in a church setting like yours. On the other hand Logos is generous in their interpretation of this for those who are married and the spouse is an occasional user.

There are good introductory packages available and I would encourage you to consider that. I am a big believer in Logos and would highly encourage you to consider investing in it as there are so many advantages over paper books.

All the best as you make your choice.

DMB

Tim a big welcome to the forum!

Your question is a common one. And Logos has spent much effort explaining (without much success). But they target a single user with multiple devices, and then negotiate with publishers with those terms.

So, a church or seminary contract is not in the picture.

Tim Lister

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518442#Comment_518442

Thanks for the quick and informative replies.

I already own a Logos library (Silver at present), I enjoy the benefits, especially when working with the original languages for my sermon prep.

I was considering adding commentary bundles to my library, however there is little or no cost saving over the hard copy and the inability to allow others to use the books (which of course does not exist with print books) means I won't be adding to my library. It's a shame as I really like the software.

Thanks for your help.

William Gabriel

Tim,

As you can see from other replies, the answer is no, but I've always been an advocate of a site-license model for Logos. I think it would be helpful in the academic setting but also, as you mention, in a church setting. Most posters on the forum seem to disagree with me, but I'm going to stick to my guns and ask for such a setup again.

Bill

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518450#Comment_518450

Most posters on the forum seem to disagree with me, but I'm going to stick to my guns and ask for such a setup again.

I am not sure many are actually against a site license option. It is just that the single-user license does not allow for it. The current pricing structure does not compensate the publishers for multiple users on one license. If Logos were to offer a site license there would probably be negotiations for publishers to get paid more. This would require a different pricing structure for resources. Different publishers would have different demands. Logos can not unilaterally offer a site license to resources they do not own.

Disclaimer: The preceding opinion is mine alone and is not privy to the contract negotiations Logos has with it's publishing partners.

Tim Lister

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518455#Comment_518455

If Logos were to offer a site license there would probably be negotiations for publishers to get paid more.

This does make sense, the problem is that the Logos version of the material is no cheaper than I can find it on-line in print editions. If Logos were to amend their pricing structure to allow this to happen (in agreement with publishers etc.) I can't see it being financially worth it to use Logos over print in a church setting.

Oh well.

William Gabriel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518455#Comment_518455

I am not sure many are actually against a site license option. It is just that the single-user license does not allow for it. The current pricing structure does not compensate the publishers for multiple users on one license. If Logos were to offer a site license there would probably be negotiations for publishers to get paid more. This would require a different pricing structure, Different publishers would have different demands. Logos can not unilaterally offer a site license to resources they do not own.

Disclaimer: The preceding opinion is mine alone and is not privy to the contract negotiations Logos has with it's publishing partners.

Yes, if Logos can separate out the licensing from the UI a bit, then I think they can make a model that works. I also think they have economic incentive to pursue it, as I believe they'll find a lot of institutions with deeper pockets than individuals (also, I believe they could finally get their rental model to work). If I had to ballpark, I'm guessing that Logos is losing 75% of their potential revenue by ignoring this segment (this is where companies like MS make all their money).

I'm sure Logos will need to renegotiate with publishers for site licenses. I'm sure they'll have to pay more. I'm sure a church or a school would be willing to pay more. It will be a win for everybody.

There may need to be a bit of infrastructure work they'll need to do. They could even enforce a "one book is used by one user at a time" model if they're able to integrate the site license idea into the UI. It would be great if a user could "add to" their library by adding a site license at the institution they're a part of for the time they're there (naturally only losing access to those books when they leave). Makes me think they'd get a bunch more individual sales as users find resources they can't live without after having perused them from the site-licensed "library".

Logos is working hard to find out about it's users so they can sell more books. I really think their efforts would be better spent working toward selling to churches and schools.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518462#Comment_518462

I really think their efforts would be better spent working toward selling to churches and schools.

I agree there is money to be made here. That is why I think we eventually will see something develop.

Erik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518450#Comment_518450

I would think a per seat license at an enterprise level would be a more workable solution than a blanket site license. Logos could put further WAN/LAN and time-based restrictions as well.

A blanket site license would be a sieve, but an auditable seat license arrangement at the academic level could greatly benefit Logos. However, I am not privy to their margins or other business considerations to really know the answer to this. If Logos hooked seminarians early, it might pay off in the long run once students leave school and no longer have access.

Lexis/Nexis and Westlaw did this when I was in law school in the early 90s.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518540#Comment_518540

I'm sure that organizational / site licencing will be addressed when Logos switches to a web based subscription model.

Rev Chris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/518542#Comment_518542

Been a while since I've been on here, but I had idealistic (and foolish hopes) Bob might have changed his thinking on this. One can dream...

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is why Logos would have to do anything different. Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy. Nobody cries fowl when someone donates a book to a public library. I've even seen public libraries accept Kindle book donations from its patrons. What am I missing here?

Do other Bible software companies allow this?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566045#Comment_566045

Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy.

Actually they do frequently pay more. (Or they should.) There are often separate licenses for public and private use. Bob Pritchett's mother holds a library science degree. I imagine she has shared her knowledge of library licensing with Bob.

Another thing to consider is what the copyright holders may require.

Whyndell Grizzard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566045#Comment_566045

It would be beneficial for a church to own the software package- when a new pastor comes on board they could change the password, thus disabling the previous pastors version.

This would give Logos a chance to contact the previous pastor and offer him or his new church an opportunity to activate what he has at a good price.

Or give them a chance to buy a lower package at a discount.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566045#Comment_566045

Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy.

A print book can only be used by one person at a time, and if a hundred people use it, it's going to wear out a hundred times faster. For both of those reasons libraries frequently have to pay for several copies. And they frequently have to pay for a better binding.

Furthermore, books that are mainly found in libraries often cost a lot more, precisely for that reason (Brill and so on...).

And at least when it comes to electronic things like films, libraries do pay more. A lot more.

It would be beneficial for a church to own the software package- when a new pastor comes on board they could change the password, thus disabling the previous pastors version.

This is already perfectly possible, as long as only one employee uses it, and as long as they make sure that he removes all the church's resources from any private computer or backup before he leaves.

Alex Bui

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566061#Comment_566061

I have similar thoughts in the last few months. I have talked to keyed people in my church about purchase multiple packages for Sunday School teachers and group leaders, but the cost is too much for our church without academic discount. Otherwise, the multiple licences and the Mobile Ed courses will be perfect for training and strengthening our lay leadership teams. We have other training modules in place but with additional resources like Logos that would be great. I am currently praying for a purchase for our new full time youth pastor, so he has a base package and a budget for books that he needs for his ministry.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566085#Comment_566085

It would be beneficial for a church to own the software package- when a new pastor comes on board they could change the password, thus disabling the previous pastors version.

This is already perfectly possible, as long as only one employee uses it, and as long as they make sure that he removes all the church's resources from any private computer or backup before he leaves.

Technically the license has to be in a person's name. Practically it can be transferred from the departing individual to someone else.

Alex Bui

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566114#Comment_566114

Thank you Super Tramp for bringing forward the issues on the other thread. I support you wholeheartedly. It was muddy over there so I didn't say anything, [:)].

Congratulation on your new grand-child, [<:o)].

Rev Chris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566085#Comment_566085

Libraries don't pay more for the print books they buy.

A print book can only be used by one person at a time, and if a hundred people use it, it's going to wear out a hundred times faster. For both of those reasons libraries frequently have to pay for several copies. And they frequently have to pay for a better binding.

Furthermore, books that are mainly found in libraries often cost a lot more, precisely for that reason (Brill and so on...).

And at least when it comes to electronic things like films, libraries do pay more. A lot more.

I haven't worked in a library, so some of you certainly know more than I do. But it would be really easy for a library to limit use of an electronic resource to one person at a time - just limit the installation of Logos on only one machine.

For electronic resources, I'm sure films require quite a bit extra. But like I said, I've seen public libraries allows people to buy a Kindle book and donate it to the library. Maybe it was a couple extra dollars, I forget, but I don't think so. If it was, it wasn't much I know that.

Also, it doesn't answer the question about library donations. Every library I've known has accepted book donations from people. Has that always been illegal? If so, I can't imagine a library out there that's not been in violation of copyright.

Even if Logos would offer a limited set of resources - perhaps their own publications and maybe get the rights for a good Bible dictionary and commentary series - a lot of churches would benefit. And I'm sure it would generate personal sales once people started seeing what the software could do.

I didn't get an answer to my other question - which was about other software that offers such a license. A 30-second search on Google revealed that they do, though. I won't mention names, since they're competitors of Logos, but let's just say other big companies have figured this out. I guess I'll have to direct my church toward them.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566100#Comment_566100

I have talked to keyed people in my church about purchase multiple packages for Sunday School teachers and group leaders, but the cost is too much for our church without academic discount.

I understand why they don't have library licenses, but a discount for buying many licenses at the same time is a completely different issue, and one that I would think they ought to be able to do something about fairly easily. Any publisher must understand that a church is likely to either buy for all their Sunday School teachers, or for none (or they buy one copy, and let everyone else use it illegally...). So if a decent discount can make them take the step, the discount should be profitable.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566122#Comment_566122

or they buy one copy, and let everyone else use it illegally...

Surely you don't think any church would do that, do you [8-)]

Alex Bui

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566122#Comment_566122

I have talked to keyed people in my church about purchase multiple packages for Sunday School teachers and group leaders, but the cost is too much for our church without academic discount.

I understand why they don't have library licenses, but a discount for buying many licenses at the same time is a completely different issue, and one that I would think they ought to be able to do something about fairly easily. Any publisher must understand that a church is likely to either buy for all their Sunday School teachers, or for none (or they buy one copy, and let everyone else use it illegally...). So if a decent discount can make them take the step, the discount should be profitable.

I talked with Logos. The issue is how many licenses will qualified for bulk purchase (academic discount). I hope Logos lower the quantities required and many churches will jump at the opportunity, which at the end will make up for the volume.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566127#Comment_566127

Surely you don't think any church would do that, do you

I'm fairly certain I've seen posts here on the forums proving that it happens.[:(]

Some don't read the EULA and assume they can share like they could share a printed library. Some make up excuses. Some simply don't care.

I once came across a link to a free download of a fairly high hacked L4 package. Found it at the website of a Christian college.[:#]

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566127#Comment_566127

or they buy one copy, and let everyone else use it illegally...

Surely you don't think any church would do that, do you

Take a look at church choir folders sometime and see how many xeroxes there are there. [:'(]

SDG

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566153#Comment_566153

Ignorance of the Law, is not innocence.

But you're right. I attended a christian college that (for a time) had purchased a few licenses for Logos, and had determined that as long as only one student was using one license at a time, that they were upholding the spirit of the law, if not the letter.

Eventually a new librarian came in that read eulas, and ended this process.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566136#Comment_566136

Surely you don't think any church would do that, do you

I'm fairly certain I've seen posts here on the forums proving that it happens.

We need a sarcasm smiley. Unfortunately, Churches/Christians are probably some of the worst offenders when it comes to copyright infringement.

Alex Bui

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566343#Comment_566343

I don't think Logos has much problems with churches because there is an oversight of the pastoral staff. Plus churches would want each leader/teacher to have a licence so he/she can have the resources with them all the times for bible study, lesson preparation, and growth in the areas of their ministries. We grow little by little each day and more when we face various situations. Having the resources with the individual 7/24 365 is a must. The inconvenience of having to drive to a designated place to use the software each time is ineffective and outweighed the cost of purchase a licence in the long run.

Tad Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/566121#Comment_566121

What people are advocating is technically possible . . . it sounds like it doesn't fit Logos's business model (they believe offering only single user licenses is the most lucrative licensing model).

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1155766#Comment_1155766

What people are advocating is technically possible . . . it sounds like it doesn't fit Logos's business model (they believe offering only single user licenses is the most lucrative licensing model).

Welcome [:D]

Faithlife has many content contracts with publishers. On 15 Mar 2019, Faithlife published EULA term revision that includes:

Faithlife Terms">
1. General.

By establishing an individual User (defined below) account or registering a Community (defined below) at Faithlife.com, submitting an Order (defined below) or otherwise using any Faithlife (defined below) products or services (the “Services”), you certify that you have read, are authorized to agree to, on your own behalf or on behalf of your Community, as applicable, and agree to be bound by these Faithlife Terms of Service (“Terms”). By entering into this agreement with Faithlife, LLC, a Delaware limited liability company (“Faithlife”), you represent and warrant that you are of legal age to form a binding contract with us. If you are under the legal age to form a binding contract then your parent, guardian or other legal representative must agree to these Terms on your behalf and you hereby represent and warrant that they have done so. In no event shall the Services be used by persons less than thirteen (13) years of age and the Services are not intended for use by such persons.

We may revise and update these Terms from time to time in our sole discretion. The date on which these Terms were last amended is shown above. All changes are effective immediately when we post them and apply to all access to and use of the Services thereafter. However, any changes to the dispute resolution provisions will not apply to any disputes for which the parties have actual notice before the date the change is posted. Your continued use of the Services following the posting of revised Terms means that you accept and agree to the changes. We encourage you to check this page each time you access the Services so you are aware of any changes, as they are binding on you.

Logos Bible Software Services (“LBS”)">
5. Rights and Access Privileges for LBS Licenses.

LBS Licenses may ONLY be used on devices owned by the licensee in whose name the LBS License is registered. Each LBS License is granted for use by one human user only, even where the LBS License is registered in the name of an institution such as a church. We reserve the right to monitor use of the Services subject to LBS Licenses to detect, prevent and disable excessive simultaneous logins on different devices indicating use of the Services by more than one human user. We do not offer site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, or library licenses.

Device ownership is contractual challenge for employer ownership (having employees bring their own devices is OK for LBS license use by that human employee on their own device).

On 12 Sep 2014, Logos Blog article => Logos is Faithlife announced Corporation name change.

Thankful for free Basic libraries and features. Thankful for Logos 9 & Verbum 9 new feature of account icon for easy switching. Thankful for web store modification that allows many licenses for a resource to be purchased for distribution using Faithlife group. Thankful for Faithlife group => https://faithlife.com/homeschool-families/activity (as Homeschool families have similar license desires as Churches)

Please vote: new feedback website has Base packages for families showing "In Progress" with 31 votes.

Caveat: new feedback website needs a separate login so please vote => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system that has 7 votes.

Keep Smiling [:)]