Father Thomas Keating
I was disturbed to see that Logos will be including Fr. Keating's works on prayer. Although he seems to be well-intentioned and has acquired a large following over the years, his ideas are not regarded as orthodox or safe by spiritual directors who are grounded in authentic Catholic spirituality. There is a distinct New Age influence within his teaching.
I implore everyone who is interested in this author to first get some perspective from other reliable Catholic sources, such as Catholic Answers (www.catholic.com) or Dan Burke at Roman Catholic Spiritual Direction (www.rcspiritualdirection.com). Father Thomas DuBay was adamantly opposed to the practice of Centering Prayer as unsafe and opposed to authentic advancement in prayer.
According to these sources, following Fr. Keating's methods will at best bring hamstring a soul in her quest for spiritual union with God; other more ominous problems can arise.
I hope that Logos will consider withdrawing these unsound writings from its library.
Jim
Comments
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Hi James,
I personally agree with you; but there are many resources here, nominally Catholic and otherwise, about which I would say something similar.
However, I see it this way: just as Amazon or a "brick and mortar" bookstore would carry most things, thereby letting the customer decide, Logos seems to be making an effort to be as comprehensive. .
Of course, there is a danger in this that people read and absorb heretical ideas unwittingly; and are thereby harmed. But that would be possible in any bookstore.
This, of course, is why Christians (of all denominations) need to get better at not only discerning true from false doctrine, but of being able to convey and teach that discernment.
Also, sometimes one does need to read and study heresy; remember, heresy has been one of the great advancers of true doctrine in the Church, broadly considered.
May God Bless you.
In Christo Rege,
~Butters [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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They are also issuing Richard McBrien's Catholicism, which the CDF called out for its errors. I suppose commenting/linking on the product page might be a way to share some cautions with potential purchasers/users of products with issues. However, offering these things heightens my buyer-beware antennae.
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kentuckyliz said:
They are also issuing Richard McBrien's Catholicism, which the CDF called out for its errors. I suppose commenting/linking on the product page might be a way to share some cautions with potential purchasers/users of products with issues. However, offering these things heightens my buyer-beware antennae.
As it ought to, and that is a good thing!
McBrien is just remarkably off-kilter, and that is being polite about it.
One is sorely tempted to start rattling off alternative volumes that are nearly priceless in their value to Catholics in particular; however, I also know that once I get going down that road, I won't be able to stop; an avalanche of suggestions will follow, with no end in sight, lol.
~Butters [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Hi Butters,
I understand your point. Definitely agree that studying heresy as such can help us better understand authentic Christian truth (I'm not saying that Fr. Keatings writings are heretical, btw). But if one reads error not knowing that it is known to be error, he risks falling into it and then the Church has to go back over what had been settled ground. Hence the re-warmed Gnosticism of Dan Brown that confused unsuspecting people a few years back.
It would be helpful for Logos to put some kind of warning label on stuff like this so that people will be aware that they are approaching what many wise minds would characterize as a diversion from the sure path into a pool of quicksand. There are Catholic parishes out there who are sponsoring Centering Prayer workshops, leading unsuspecting people to believe this has been accepted broadly by the Church when it has not. Surely Logos would not want to contribute to the confusion by failing to at the very least point out that the writings are controversial?
Maybe a sign that says "Danger: Quicksand" and a link to the Catechism?
Blessings,
Jim
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Butters,
Rattle away!! Those writings you mention could fill a swimming pool. I want to dive in and never reach bottom! Just keep going deeper.
Jim
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Or a link to the Vatican statement, "Jesus Christ, the Water Bearer of Life: A Christian Reflection on the New Age"
There isn't an explicit mention of "Thomas Keating" or "centering prayer" in the document, but it wrestles with the issues in the content of the teachings of Keating and others.
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and/or the Irish Theological Commission statement from 1994 - A New Age of the Spirit? Catholic Response to New Age Phenomenon
http://www.spiritual-wholeness.org/churchte/newage/bishops.htm
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Agree with all. However I view that the addition of such books as a good thing. Most of Logos users are well read and resources with heterodox views are useful in any research library for a variety of reasons. It's important to always check how things are intended to be understood from the author's point of view, not second hand: from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Hence we urge people who misunderstand Catholic teachings to check the actual teachings in the Catechism or encyclicals or sources of Catholic dogma, etc... rather than online articles and opinions.
In the same manner, as an example, for a Catholic apologist, some resources are indispensable such as Luther's or Calvin's works etc.
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kentuckyliz said:
and/or the Irish Theological Commission statement from 1994 - A New Age of the Spirit? Catholic Response to New Age Phenomenon
http://www.spiritual-wholeness.org/churchte/newage/bishops.htm
I'm not familiar with this work, but rather than asking for Logos to withdraw it from sale, or put up a warning label, couldn't you write a suitably-worded, fair-minded review on the webpage of the resource?
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I don't think that's possible since Logos has no interest (and no business really) to dictate to its readers what stuff is dangerous. That is probably contrary to their interest in selling the books and probably the publishers and authors (not to mention many readers) will object.James D Savage said:It would be helpful for Logos to put some kind of warning label
There was a long winded thread by a fellow who wanted to label Catholic resources as dangerous! (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/65414.aspx). Bob also chimed in twice to say why it's not possible.
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Logos has taken the position of offering a wide variety of resources and theological perspectives and leaves the user with the option/responsibility to carefully decide on their own. Actually, I have purposefully chosen to include resources in my library that I think hold incorrect theological positions so that I can refer to them, better understand them and quote them first-hand. I have also made a number of personal books from key "sacred" books from other religions for the same purpose.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I can understand the company taking that position, just as I can understand a person who is well-formed in his faith wanting to examine some writings first-hand to better understand the beliefs of others. No problem...
But Logos is not only declining to mention the problematic nature already stated above; they are advertising his writings as "wisdom on contemplative prayer" and his movement as a "revival of contemplative meditation." My concern is that a large number of Catholics, for a variety of reasons, are not equipped to recognize that most orthodox Catholic authors strongly warn against taking part in this "movement."
It's fine to include contrasting views for those who understand their own faith; it's quite another to further confuse someone who is trying to learn about his faith by slipping in an intriguing but error-ridden and possibly harmful body of writing into Logos and calling it "Catholic wisdom" as if the Church endorses it.
It would be like not pointing out that although Thomas Merton's early works are admired by almost everyone, he kind of rolled out into the weeds in his later writings. It would be unfair to fail to provide a little guidance there for those who are trying to learn. That is what Logos is doing with Keating, I'm afraid. Please just give fair warning that his writings are at odds with what the Church teaches on the New Age and with commonly held beliefs about contemplative prayer. Those who are seeking a deeper prayer life under the guidance of sound writings by the Doctors of the Church will want to avoid Centering Prayer if they are informed about its dangers first.
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James D Savage said:
Please just give fair warning that his writings are at odds with what the Church teaches on the New Age and with commonly held beliefs about contemplative prayer.
If you feel so strongly about it, why not just put up a review? I don't understand your grievance on the one hand and your inactivity on the other.
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Lee said:
If you feel so strongly about it, why not just put up a review?
I'm not sure you can provide a review ... at least a permanent one, without being an owner of the resource. The Logos "review police" will delete these, very politely.
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James D Savage said:
I hope that Logos will consider withdrawing these unsound writings from its library.
Hi Jim,
Welcome to the forums. I appreciate your perspective on the subject resources. However, its not in keeping with the Forum Guidelines to try and work through the various theological points. I realize that it may run counter to your instinct, especially on this subject. Be that as it may, I think you will find that many of the Logos users who are from the Catholic faith tradition are already aware of your points. Those that are from other faith traditions have heard your arguments now. Everyone will make their decision based on reading and study preferences.
Logos is simply providing access to the materials. A tremendous blessing in its own right.
Don't worry! It's all good!
Again, welcome. Looking forward to your participation in the Logos Forums.
[:)]
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Steve said:Lee said:
If you feel so strongly about it, why not just put up a review?
I'm not sure you can provide a review ... at least a permanent one, without being an owner of the resource. The Logos "review police" will delete these, very politely.
Perhaps a potential reviewer should buy a resource, and then read it to see some of the points he/she wants to comment on! [;)]
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James, I forgot to welcome you to the forums as well. I appreciate your concern and I agree with you that it's probably good to mention that these works are at least controversial.
Totally agree. Although I know that the 'Catholic' tag used to describe some of the resources on Logos.com is loosely applied.James D Savage said:It's fine to include contrasting views for those who understand their own faith; it's quite another to further confuse someone who is trying to learn about his faith by slipping in an intriguing but error-ridden and possibly harmful body of writing into Logos and calling it "Catholic wisdom" as if the Church endorses it.
Steve, are you sure about this? I haven't seen the "review police" in action before on this site myself but I could be wrong. After all, how can they know if someone hasn't already read some of the works on a paper book or Kindle etc.?Steve said:Lee said:If you feel so strongly about it, why not just put up a review?
I'm not sure you can provide a review ... at least a permanent one, without being an owner of the resource. The Logos "review police" will delete these, very politely.
Anyway, I have provided my own remarks on the resource page. If someone has read them or about them and would like to comment by adding another review, I would encourage them as well.
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