Logos 6 Best Feature: NO INDEXING !!!!!!!!!!
Comments
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Denise said:
"If WS does all you want Bible Software to do, then use it. Frankly, getting tired of those who come to the Logos forums to sell WS and Accordance."
Now, I presume the first of these sentences suggests if anyone compares Logos to another software, then they should use the other software. I assume you're joking.
The first sentence is quite reasonable. If a bicycle does all you want from a transportation device, then you're better off buying that than buying a car - and car dealers and car owners shouldn't be embarrassed at saying so.
Denise said:The second sentence suggests that comparing Logos functionality to other software means the other software is being advertised. I assume you're joking again.
On that, I so agree with you.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:Denise said:
The second sentence suggests that comparing Logos functionality to other software means the other software is being advertised. I assume you're joking again.
On that, I so agree with you.
Comparison of two applications is legitimate. Endless repetition of the same point is not legitimate.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
Would it be an acceptable solution to require an Internet connection for searching to work?
NO WAY!!! PLEASE DON'T DO THAT!!! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!!
There are people (also logos users) living in countries with a very limited internet connection.
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L.A. said:Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
Would it be an acceptable solution to require an Internet connection for searching to work?
NO WAY!!! PLEASE DON'T DO THAT!!! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!!
There are people (also logos users) living in countries with a very limited internet connection.
In addition, *things* happen. Last night my internet connection went down. It later came up, but I still couldn't connect. I found that by plugging the Ethernet cable into the computer rather than the wireless router fixed the problem. Now I need to get a new router. If I had been totally reliant on the internet, I would have had a problem. There is no way Logos should ever be totally dependent on the cloud.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:Erik DiVietro said:
anything remotely close to 24 minutes to index my library of 2,500 resources
I was indexing fewer than 2000 Bibles and morph resources; hundreds of these are fragments and are very quick to index. Even a full Bible is often much smaller than a commentary. So this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison with a full library of 2500 resources.
I wasn't trying to give misleading numbers; those were just the only "benchmark" figures I had on my machine at the time of writing the post.
It might be good to start another thread which asks the following questions.
How large is your library? What Logos software do you use? Describe your computer type, processor, amount of memory and type & size of hard drive. How long does it take to index your library when you add a new book and how long for a software update? Does the indexing have a considerable effect on your ability to use your computer while the indexing or update is in progress?
Maybe some other questions would be helpful. Please add them if you think that this might be helpful.
I think that this might be useful information for all of us including the Logos development team.
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Bob Pritchett said:
It would really, really help if every complaint/issue/report about indexing indicated Mac or Windows. It would also help to know the age (rounded to years) of your system.
Bob (and Bradley):
Perhaps it would help if you added some telemetry around indexing, that way you could gather info about O.S., # resources needing indexed, time it took to index, maybe even some basic hardware info. That would give you a larger sample size than people posting to the forums and hopefully including the right information. It might reveal some classes of users and how they depend on indexing. I don't know if you already gather any kind of telemetry the way MS has been doing for the last 5+ years, but this seems like a good scenario in which to consider it.
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:Bob Pritchett said:
It would really, really help if every complaint/issue/report about indexing indicated Mac or Windows. It would also help to know the age (rounded to years) of your system.
Bob (and Bradley):
Perhaps it would help if you added some telemetry around indexing, that way you could gather info about O.S., # resources needing indexed, time it took to index, maybe even some basic hardware info. That would give you a larger sample size than people posting to the forums and hopefully including the right information. It might reveal some classes of users and how they depend on indexing. I don't know if you already gather any kind of telemetry the way MS has been doing for the last 5+ years, but this seems like a good scenario in which to consider it.
Donnie
[Y]
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I don't have time to read this entire thread, so my apologies if I am repeating someone else's sentiments here..
I don't understand all the moaning about indexing. I don't have the fastest machine by far and it takes 20-30 minutes to do a full rebuild index; big deal. The tradeoff is well-worth it.
One thing that would make me leave Logos is a requirement to be always connected to the internet. That is not possible for me and the online connections are not reliable where I live.
It is the main reason I have not even considered Proclaim.
Some of the things people complain about... amazing.
Jerry
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Jerry Bush said:
Some of the things people complain about... amazing.
Your implicit complaining about the possibility of requiring an always-on internet connection isn't too different than users who are basically complaining about the apparent requirement that Logos has that you need a "relatively new" computer in order to not be crippled by indexing. If you are invested in the software, then you get almost daily updates of products. If you get daily updates and that seizes your computer for an hour, then you've lost out on 5% of the use of your computer. What people on this thread are asking for is the ability to control this process a little bit better: let it happen with lower priority, let it happen automatically overnight, allow a bundling feature so you only go through it once a week.
It's an important enough topic that it's garnered 160 comments so far (5,000+ views), including two posts from the CEO of the company. You brush it off, but it is a big deal.
I'm going to roll up some thoughts and responses to other users in this same post:
Donnie Hale said:Perhaps it would help if you added some telemetry around indexing, that way you could gather info about O.S., # resources needing indexed, time it took to index, maybe even some basic hardware info.
This is one of the best ideas I've seen in the thread. I would gladly opt-in to this kind of a program.
@Doug Witmer:
I'm right there with you in many of your feelings. I'd like to constructively help with solutions here so that Logos is as good as how you feel WS is and how others feel Acc. is. But I sense that part of your frustration comes from not understanding what goes on under the hood. For instance, you claim to have solved the binary tree "problem" and turned the challenge around on me. Here's the thing: I can write you the code that will merge those two trees, produce a correct answer, and do it in the time that Computer Science has demonstrated it will happen. If you have figured out something more efficient, you have some honorary PhDs and possibly a nobel prize coming your way. I cannot claim to be smarter than the guys who have figured out how do to O(log n) binary tree insertions.
Even I don't understand all that Logos is doing under the hood, and that's what Bob fundamentally saying when he gave us his previous post in this thread. I know it's not as simple as a one-line coding tweak that will fix the issues. But I do believe, from a user and programmer stand point that many of the issues can be mitigated. Logos is pretty unique in that the CEO of the company will actually dialog with its users and work to improve the next version to their satisfaction (I assume that's why Bob is here...do other CEOs get on their product forums and post?). I hope the message isn't, "deal with it, we know what's best for you," because that would probably induce me to work toward shifting my investment. But hey, competition is great and gives everyone the incentive for improvement, and I'll personally be here trying to encourage Logos through what I experience and what I know. And I hope I am able to do it positively.
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William Gabriel said:
do other CEOs get on their product forums and post?
I do appreciate Bob, Dan, and Dale taking the time to engage us users, but they are not alone. The powers that be at Accordance also interact with users on their forums.
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Would one quick step practically to this be for us to be able to see what updates are proposed before downloading them? For example, a lot of the updates I'd be happy to wait for but I don't know what they are before downloading them.
An alternative to this might be for Logos to give each person a set day in the week and restrict downloads to that day alone (vary the day per person so the Logos servers aren't overloaded).
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I agree with Paul's suggestion -- which has been made before but gone unheeded -- to show users what will be downloaded first. I like the WS format: you get a pop-up that tells you that update a, b and c are available to download. You have checkboxes you can use to select or unselect and you can click download now or later.
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Say, I just had a download and I told myself I'd postpone indexing. But now I am waiting for "preparing my library". What is being done at this point in contrast to indexing AND why does it also take so long???
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Francis said:
"preparing my library"
The "Preparing Your Library" stage is:
- Stage 1: 'Discovering' the newly downloaded resources which means
- Checking the licences are valid
- Moving them into the resource folder
- Updating the lists of the various databases of special resource types
- Stage 2: Extracting the metadata and adding the resource to the library catalog
- Stage 3: Configuring keylinking, which means:
- Finding out which datatypes are supported by each resource
- Figuring out where each datatype/resource fits in the prioritisation list
Stage 2 generally takes the longest. On a fast machine, it's about 1s per resource, which isn't too shabby when you realise how much data is being added to the catalog. But you only need a few hundred resources for that to take 3-4 minutes - and that's on a fast machine.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Paul Chatfield said:
Would one quick step practically to this be for us to be able to see what updates are proposed before downloading them?
Back in the Libronix day we showed every single component and a large list of check-boxes -- you could download exactly what you want.
It was a nightmare. Of course no user (and most of our team!) never really understood all the inter-dependencies and connections between components, and days / weeks / months later we'd have support calls about all kinds of unexpected behavior that came down to having rejected something 'it didn't seem like I needed' long before.
We do let you choose when to download, but letting you choose what to download would quickly lead to pain for all of us.... The one exception might be 'which books' to download, which we could possibly control through the same UI we use on the web to manage what's downloaded to mobile devices, though it's missing some of the batch processing interfaces on the web that we presently offer via the Library menu in the software.
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Bob Pritchett said:Paul Chatfield said:
Would one quick step practically to this be for us to be able to see what updates are proposed before downloading them?
Back in the Libronix day we showed every single component and a large list of check-boxes -- you could download exactly what you want.
I don't think Paul was asking to choose which resources would download (though others have requested that). He was asking to see which resources would download, so that he could make an informed decision as to whether he delayed the download and indexing to a later time (which he might do if the resource was an obscure one that he rarely used).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Bob Pritchett said:
We do let you choose when to download, but letting you choose what to download would quickly lead to pain for all of us.... The one exception might be 'which books' to download
I would like that. It seems redundant to, after having upgraded your base package, to have to download all the books and then hide the ones you know you don't want. That might also be true with collections...
Andy
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AndyTheGreek said:
That might also be true with collections...
What do you mean? Collections are documents which you can create and delete - sync or not sync - as you choose. They only list resources according to a rule or because you explicitly included them.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:AndyTheGreek said:
That might also be true with collections...
What do you mean? Collections are documents which you can create and delete - sync or not sync - as you choose. They only list resources according to a rule or because you explicitly included them.
The word 'collections' is also used in the sense of 'Classic Commentary Collection'. I think Andy is saying that if he bought a large collection, he might want to hide part of that collection, and it would make sense to do that before downloading it, not afterwards.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
The word 'collections' is also used in the sense of 'Classic Commentary Collection'.
Ahh, yes!
Sorry Andy, must have had a literal mind set last night.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark Barnes said:
The word 'collections' is also used in the sense of 'Classic Commentary Collection'.
It might be easier if we all refer to those things as 'bundles' rather than 'collections.' But good luck with that, right?
As long as Logos continues to sell so many new works in bundles (good or bad), this will be an issue to some users. I don't know an easy way around it for either the company or the user.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Doc B said:
It might be easier if we all refer to those things as 'bundles' rather than 'collections.' But good luck with that, right?
Logos do use that vocabulary sometimes, but I don't know what the difference between a bundle and a collection is.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
I don't know what the difference between a bundle and a collection is.
In my head, a 'bundle' is a group of related resources for sale together.
A 'collection' is a group of resources in the software that are defined by a user-created rule that can be accessed by the Library, Guides, etc.
FWIW. (Not much, probably.)
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Question or do I correctly understand:
If we did not index right after a download, as I understand it, a search would act just like it would have before the download - that is it would not search the book that just downloaded.
I have no clue what would happen if you opened the book, without indexing, and tried to search the open book. [A message that I need to index first is OK]
What if indexing asked before it started: 'is now a good time to index?'
What if we were given the option of downloading by day and time [now only by time]
What if we were given the option of setting when the system could index independent of when it downloaded? [Yes, want that book at Church today but index tonight after all services]
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David Ames said:
If we did not index right after a download, as I understand it, a search would act just like it would have before the download - that is it would not search the book that just downloaded.
If you download, but do not restart Logos, then:
- For new books - you would not see the book in your library or search results.
- For updated books - you'd get the old version in your library or search results.
If you download, restart, then pause indexing, then:
- For new books - you'd see the book in your library, but get zero results for it when searching.
- For updated books - you'd get the new book in your library, but results from the older version in your search results. Search highlighting might be incorrect until the indexing finishes.
With the combination of scheduling or turning off automatic downloads, and with total control over whether you restart Logos or not, and with the option of pausing indexing as much as you want, you've got pretty much total control over when indexing happens.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
If you download, restart, then pause indexing, then:
Some have said that if you pause indexing the memory used by indexing is still reserved for indexing
I assume that if you did not start indexing that memory would sill be free.
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David Ames said:
Some have said that if you pause indexing the memory used by indexing is still reserved for indexing
That misunderstands how operating systems allocate memory. It doesn't really matter that the memory used by the indexer is 'in use'. The OS will just swap that out to the hard drive when it becomes short of memory, so when the indexer is paused it won't reduce the memory available to other applications.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Bob Pritchett said:mike said:
this constant indexing really cripple my computer and my life
Mike, just curious... are you on Windows or a Mac?
Windows sir.
Would it be possible for the user to choose whether he/she wants to index in the cloud like what we do with Android app OR index with our own computer?
My second question, it is really stupid really .. but is it possible to make the indexing less painful for the laptop and maybe more optimized for lesser time. I know not everyone here has "good" laptop to run Logos. why ? ...
consider this, I have many missionary pastor friends who I'd love to introduce to Logos, but their laptop normally aren't up to date like the average Joe American pastors who makes $3000 or more per month. (I'm not asking pity for missionary pastors, God has equipped them well in different ways as well) .. if you been working in real missionary world more than 3 years consecutively, I'm sure you know well what I'm talking about by living for Christ daily.
Also, some of us aren't always attached to our computer everyday where we can manage our downloads, some have 2, 3, 4 children and loads of ministries plus prayer life .. Logos is and can become the vital part of everyday life, if only the indexing can be made easier for some us who aren't so fortunate with mid-high specs laptop or extra time to wait for the indexing.
Again, thank you for those guys who works on the background to make indexing less painful.. we're waiting [:#]
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mike said:
Also, some of us aren't always attached to our computer everyday where we can manage our downloads,
The download options in Tools >> Program Settings allow you to schedule a time OR set Automatically Download Updates to NO and you will receive a notification when downloads are available. You can refuse the download or accept it! If you want to receive a software update but not resource updates then use the weblink.
mike said:is it possible to make the indexing less painful for the laptop and maybe more optimized for lesser time.
Less painful usually means more time i.e. using less of the CPU. Further optimization is probably not going to give significant gains. It would be more realistic to have an option that manages CPU utilization & priority but remember that you can pause indexing for up to 4 hours if you want to do other work.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Swapping out memory should be the rule (Windows). But at least on my system (W7/64), whenever Logos holds on to too many gigs, I know it from the other programs slowing down (Logos cpu at 0).
That said, after all the whining a while back (by me!) on Logos not giving up memory for several months, I notice my RAM usage has stablized out, back the way it used to be.
Clearly my PC got the word and whipped Logos into shape! (or something else happened to fix it).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Swapping out memory should be the rule (Windows). But at least on my system (W7/64), whenever Logos holds on to too many gigs, I know it from the other programs slowing down (Logos cpu at 0).
That said, after all the whining a while back (by me!) on Logos not giving up memory for several months, I notice my RAM usage has stablized out, back the way it used to be.
Clearly my PC got the word and whipped Logos into shape! (or something else happened to fix it).
Perhaps you finally twitched your nose the right way. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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@Bob Pritchett
Admittedly, I have been a huge source of grief to you, on more than one occasion. While I believe I was right in my positions, once again, I see how wrong I was.
While I have an ancient laptop (its nearing 3 years, come January), my small library of 1150 resources apparently is not as big a problem as others. I did appreciate the technical lessons, because for me, it does explain what all goes into what we are getting for our money. As has been said many times, we are getting a research assistant. Seeing these two other complaints you have dealt with, really makes me appreciate what exactly Logos is and does. And while I have been quick to criticize, in just a short time, I can't even imagine all the criticisms you deal with, on a weekly and even daily basis. And to come back to even respond to us, and to explain technical details, so even someone like me can almost grasp it, is awesome.
While I hope we don't see Logos 6 for a long time, I am becoming more of a fan of Logos more and more. Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there. (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh).0 -
Batman said:
And while I have been quick to criticize, in just a short time, I can't even imagine all the criticisms you deal with, on a weekly and even daily basis. And to come back to even respond to us, and to explain technical details, so even someone like me can almost grasp it, is awesome.
While I hope we don't see Logos 6 for a long time, I am becoming more of a fan of Logos more and more.Well said Batman!
Batman said:Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there. (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh).
Yes, and I think I'd like it better than Disneyland!
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Send me a ticket Batman, I can always sleep on the Couch at Logos Headquarters.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Batman said:
Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there.
Actually, for anyone within driving distance of Bellingham, I've organized a visit for 4 or 5 of us on Wed (Oct.16) at 8am. If you want to join us, email me: rderuiter that certain symbol wavecable ending with the first part of the word "comfort."
This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.
Is this international "Talk Like a Pirate Day"? [;)] [:D]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Richard DeRuiter said:
This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.
Is this international "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?
No. It's improper use of personal pronouns day. Don't your know that?
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:George Somsel said:Richard DeRuiter said:
This will be me fourth visit to Logos HQ, the first when they were still in Oak Harbor. It's really an amazing place.
Is this international "Talk Like a Pirate Day"?
No. It's improper use of personal pronouns day. Don't your know that?
Did not realize that "me" was impersonal [*-)] Thanks for the enlightenment.
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Batman said:
(Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh).
Why do I live in Denmark? Instead of trips to Disneyland and even better "Logos-land", I have to settle with Legoland [:'(]
Seriously - I love Logos 5, and indexing is NOT a problem!!
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Jack Nørdam said:Batman said:
(Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh).
Why do I live in Denmark? Instead of trips to Disneyland and even better "Logos-land", I have to settle with Legoland
Seriously - I love Logos 5, and indexing is NOT a problem!!
I would suppose that you might go to the Tivoli Gardens.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Doc B said:
As I've said before, indexing is a pain, but I understand why it is necessary. I'd MUCH rather be bothered with indexing after a download than with slow searches. And as Bob implied, having something like a Google search result is untenable. "We found your restaurant. It's on Earth." Start computing permutation formulae with a thirty-six thousand in there, and you'll need a mainframe computer to not choke on the numbers.
As for anyone for whom slow indexing becomes inconvenient, I sympathize. My computer is pretty much useless for that half-hour too. But as for anyone for whom slow indexing 'cripples my life', well, you really ought to find something else to do with your time.
thats how much generating the next prime number takes. but no one wants to know, not even that american site that previously offered a prize for prime numbers (they didn't reply back).
my point: well offer a scenario, and a prize (and respond!).
secondly: offer a prize for a solution for sqlite indexing method that doesn't crash as often as is reported? (ie reduced by n %)
my points point: what if someone else had answers, but you didn't ask (or offer something so that others can make a living too?)
my intention: nothing related to disrespect to Logos. merely saying that I bet there are plenty of people who are Christians who would entertain challenges related to things like this that could be set as a fun / challenge rather than doom, gloom, cant, and if i cant then it cant be. I dont really care about a
prime number algo, I have no real use for it. but I know that others covet better than what they have with * dollars - and wont even bother replying!in good faith,
L
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Some users are reporting here that indexing is not an issue for them. Good! But for some of us its a real pain and a massive weakness with the design of how the product works. I have been buying a number of "cheaper" titles in community pricing and its common to get one or two titles each week, for maybe $10 or $20 if I'm lucky. An expensive week can run a little more :-( Anyway, the result is I'm sick of the slow startup phase 123 etc stuff, rather than being able to get into the core program, or maybe the last book in 30-60 seconds. At least I can pause the idexing, but its the prep stages before that that drive me crazy. Yes, the indexing is slow and can take hours it seems at times, but its the startup thats killing the fun for me!!!
(Main pc is a laptop with Windows Vista and 4gb ram, so its not the fastest any more, but I've got a few thousand titles now, so indexing becomes a big deal. No matter what Logos staff continue to say, I believe. good design could have allowed us to be selective in what and when we download, and keep program and books and two different things. Unix "make" and the likes have been around for tens of years and can work out whT depends on what - its really not rocket science to design and add some metadata in so the application can determine that if you update A you need a new B too, and an extra C.)
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Batman said:
Maybe it would be beneficial for each of us to come and see just what every one does there. (Instead of a Disneyland trip, lets all make it a Logos trip. Heh).
You're absolutely invited. I'll give you the tour myself.
The best time to visit is during National Camp Logos held usually in June (It was June 26-28 this year, and isn't on the calendar yet for 2014.) You can spend 3 days mastering Logos, tour the offices, and network with other users. It's a great time.
RD3
Logos Marketing | ray.deck@logos.com
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JimT said:
Some users are reporting here that indexing is not an issue for them. Good! But for some of us its a real pain and a massive weakness with the design of how the product works. I have been buying a number of "cheaper" titles in community pricing and its common to get one or two titles each week, for maybe $10 or $20 if I'm lucky. An expensive week can run a little more :-( Anyway, the result is I'm sick of the slow startup phase 123 etc stuff, rather than being able to get into the core program, or maybe the last book in 30-60 seconds. At least I can pause the idexing, but its the prep stages before that that drive me crazy. Yes, the indexing is slow and can take hours it seems at times, but its the startup thats killing the fun for me!!!
(Main pc is a laptop with Windows Vista and 4gb ram, so its not the fastest any more, but I've got a few thousand titles now, so indexing becomes a big deal. No matter what Logos staff continue to say, I believe. good design could have allowed us to be selective in what and when we download, and keep program and books and two different things. Unix "make" and the likes have been around for tens of years and can work out whT depends on what - its really not rocket science to design and add some metadata in so the application can determine that if you update A you need a new B too, and an extra C.)
I've asked this before and no one has chosen to answer: How much free space do you have on your hard drive. If your HD is stuffed, it will not be able to perform the necessary changes as rapidly as if there were plenty of space to allow the program to move things around. If you don't have sufficient space on your HD, I suggest you get a larger one so that there is space. Usually indexing is not a problem so I can only suppose that you have limited room. If that is the case, I would say: Don't gripe if you choose to not get a larger HD unless you truly can't afford one (the price has dropped considerably from the old days—you can get a 1 T internal HD at Best Buy for $75). If you truly can't afford a larger HD, you'll simply need to suffer—sorry.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Rebuilding the index, also helps speed up indexing individual book or books.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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George, My PC I wrote about a few posts ago (Windows Vista, 32 bit, 4 gb) typically has about 10-15 GB free on each of C: and
and I always attempted to keep 10% or so free if possible as I know NTFS performance degrades as it has to work harder to find free working space.
Anyway, my solution is a new Toshiba. Its got an i7-4700MQ Intel Haswell chip with 8 cores.
So far its taken many hours before I could even get the application to start to the point where I could ask it to scan an external drive to "download" the resources I saved from the Vista laptop. Its been running and indexing for about 12 or 14 hours so far and is currently at 69%.
My simple answer is that the current design of Logos 5 is BROKEN and defective for large resource libraries.
I would have liked to have been able to install and start the application within 15 minutes or so, and be told it needed to download core modules based on my resource collection. This might have taken an hour or so longer, and then it would have informed me it needed to scan or download resources, but offer to let me have my fav bible or other selected titles downloaded and usable within that first hour or so. Then it could index and do what it likes over time, with only searches being impacted. I've said it many times over the last few years but Bob gets to make the rules and disagrees. I'm the customer: My view is the product is very weak for large libraries.
(So there is a stake in the ground for "large", I'm talking of 10,000 resource files for 32 GB of source. This is not including index files - just books and whatever is in the resource subdirectory.)0 -
No, that would be unacceptable. Searching is one of my most frequent activities. It would be a pain if I needed an Internet connection every time I mantis to do search. One can delay indexing if the computer is being slowed too much.0
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JimT said:
So far its taken many hours before I could even get the application to start to the point where I could ask it to scan an external drive to "download" the resources I saved from the Vista laptop. Its been running and indexing for about 12 or 14 hours so far and is currently at 69%. My simple answer is that the current design of Logos 5 is BROKEN and defective for large resource libraries. I would have liked to have been able to install and start the application within 15 minutes or so, and be told it needed to download core modules based on my resource collection. This might have taken an hour or so longer, and then it would have informed me it needed to scan or download resources, but offer to let me have my fav bible or other selected titles downloaded and usable within that first hour or so. Then it could index and do what it likes over time, with only searches being impacted. I've said it many times over the last few years but Bob gets to make the rules and disagrees. I'm the customer: My view is the product is very weak for large libraries. (So there is a stake in the ground for "large", I'm talking of 10,000 resource files for 32 GB of source. This is not including index files - just books and whatever is in the resource subdirectory.)
For goodness' sake, can't anybody at Logos get on the case and reach out to these users? There's a pattern, it's not isolated, something could be broken, and it's in the interests of the company to get this usability issue resolved.
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JimT said:
So far its taken many hours before I could even get the application to start to the point where I could ask it to scan an external drive to "download" the resources I saved from the Vista laptop.
I'm puzzled by this. I presume it was a custom installation similar to Method 3 because you didn't want resources downloaded, so you should have access to Logos within 15 minutes even if you have a lot of documents to sync over i.e. you could tell the sync window to start the app and sync would continue in the background. Otherwise, a normal install, download & Preparation would have taken taken some hours.
JimT said:I would have liked to have been able to install and start the application within 15 minutes or so, and be told it needed to download core modules based on my resource collection. This might have taken an hour or so longer, and then it would have informed me it needed to scan or download resources, but offer to let me have my fav bible or other selected titles downloaded and usable within that first hour or so.
What are Core modules? In a normal installation a download is the only option although Logos will scan for Libronix resources if installed on the computer. It would be easy to have Logos scan for any resources on the computer but they still might need to be updated via download.
JimT said:My view is the product is very weak for large libraries.
It's interesting that we realised 6+ years ago that Libronix was weak for 'large' libraries (over 1000 or so). But there is a case that Logos is weak for libraries over 5000 or so mainly because of Preparation & Indexing. I have proposed that the Bible Index be removed as this causes bibles and morphological resources to be indexed twice; perhaps affecting several hundred resources i.e. can't do much about downloading but there are weaknesses in Preparation and Indexing. With a first-time installation it would make sense to have access to nominated resources before downloading the rest of the resources.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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If it were a Logos problem then I would have problems; Dave Hooton would have problems, MJ would have problems. As it stands, you and a few others have problems while the rest of us don't. I suggest you stop griping about "Logos problems" and find out what it is about your setup that is causing the problem. It may sound somewhat extreme, but I would recommend a target of having ½ of your HD free.JimT said:George, My PC I wrote about a few posts ago (Windows Vista, 32 bit, 4 gb) typically has about 10-15 GB free on each of C: and
and I always attempted to keep 10% or so free if possible as I know NTFS performance degrades as it has to work harder to find free working space.
Anyway, my solution is a new Toshiba. Its got an i7-4700MQ Intel Haswell chip with 8 cores.
So far its taken many hours before I could even get the application to start to the point where I could ask it to scan an external drive to "download" the resources I saved from the Vista laptop. Its been running and indexing for about 12 or 14 hours so far and is currently at 69%.
My simple answer is that the current design of Logos 5 is BROKEN and defective for large resource libraries.
I would have liked to have been able to install and start the application within 15 minutes or so, and be told it needed to download core modules based on my resource collection. This might have taken an hour or so longer, and then it would have informed me it needed to scan or download resources, but offer to let me have my fav bible or other selected titles downloaded and usable within that first hour or so. Then it could index and do what it likes over time, with only searches being impacted. I've said it many times over the last few years but Bob gets to make the rules and disagrees. I'm the customer: My view is the product is very weak for large libraries.
(So there is a stake in the ground for "large", I'm talking of 10,000 resource files for 32 GB of source. This is not including index files - just books and whatever is in the resource subdirectory.)george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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