Unhelpful Counting of Search Results

In the following basic example, I have searched for any verse in which both the words "Jesus" and "Peter" appear. As you can see from the search statistics, there are 70 results in 33 verses. These numbers do not seem very helpful. First, because the number 70 is the number of times that Jesus appears PLUS the number of times that Peter appears when they appear together. But that is not want I want to know. I want to know how many times they are mentioned in the same verse. Second, the number 33 is also not very helpful because it may be that (in a more complex search) the two things that I am looking for appear multiple times in a single verse.

Does Logos see this as an issue? Or, am I missing something?

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Comments

JT (alabama24)

You have used the wrong syntax. Off the top of my head, I think you need to search for Jesus AND Peter.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532092#Comment_532092

Also note: This kind of search will only produce hits where the words "Jesus or "Peter" are both used... not other names or pronouns.

Mark Barnes

First, because the number 70 is the number of times that Jesus appears PLUS the number of times that Peter appears when they appear together. But that is not want I want to know. I want to know how many times they are mentioned in the same verse. Second, the number 33 is also not very helpful because it may be that (in a more complex search) the two things that I am looking for appear multiple times in a single verse.

There are 33 verses where Jesus and Peter are both mentioned by name. The total number of occurrences of either name in these verses in 70. But I don't understand what "I want to know how many times they are mentioned in the same verse" means in practice.

Mathew Haferkamp

Hey Phil, welcome to the forums. I tried "Jesus WITHIN 4 WORDS peter" and my result was 28 in 14 verses in the NASB.

Hope this helps

Also I did not use the quotes in the search.

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532098#Comment_532098

(peter OR peter's) AND (jesus OR jesus' OR christ OR christ's)

I'm confused by the results of various permutations on the above. I don't see where some of those terms occur, but the count increases as they are added.

Phillip Trach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532097#Comment_532097

First, because the number 70 is the number of times that Jesus appears PLUS the number of times that Peter appears when they appear together. But that is not want I want to know. I want to know how many times they are mentioned in the same verse. Second, the number 33 is also not very helpful because it may be that (in a more complex search) the two things that I am looking for appear multiple times in a single verse.

There are 33 verses where Jesus and Peter are both mentioned by name. The total number of occurrences of either name in these verses in 70. But I don't understand what "I want to know how many times they are mentioned in the same verse" means in practice.

What I am trying to understand is what the "70" really tells me. I can't tell if Jesus occurs 30 times and Peter occurs 40 times (adding up to 70), or if Jesus occurs 67 times and Peter occurs 13 times (adding up to 70). My point is that "70" is an unhelpful number. I don't see what it really tells me.

Phillip Trach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532092#Comment_532092

You have used the wrong syntax. Off the top of my head, I think you need to search for Jesus AND Peter.

Adding "AND" makes no difference.

Phillip Trach

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532137#Comment_532137

Perhaps another example will help.

In the search below, I have searched for a specific string of 3 elements (article, δε, verbal). According to the search result, there are 831 results in 273 verses. What does the "831 results" really mean? It seems to be the number of articles PLUS the number of δε PLUS the number of verbals. I guess that means that each of the three elements shows up 277x each.

What good is that number to me?

I would rather know how many times that construction AS A WHOLE occurs, and it may occur more than once in a verse, so the verse number is not as helpful as it could be either.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532135#Comment_532135

I can't tell if Jesus occurs 30 times and Peter occurs 40 times (adding up to 70), or if Jesus occurs 67 times and Peter occurs 13 times (adding up to 70).

I see. Thanks for the clarification.

That said, you know that both must occur at least 33 times, because there are 33 verses where both occur. But I take your point. It would be useful if a count could be given of each search term. There are a couple of ways around this.

You could do an analysis search and group by result. Unfortunately, Analysis searches don't give accurate counts in Reverse Interlinear Bibles like the NASB. But it would work in non-RI Bible, such as the RSV.
You could great a passage list from the verses in your first search result, and then do two searches (one for Peter, one for Jesus) within that Passage List. That's rather cumbersome, but it does give you the result you want: 36xJesus and 34xPeter.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532138#Comment_532138

I would rather know how many times that construction AS A WHOLE occurs, and it may occur more than once in a verse, so the verse number is not as helpful as it could be either.

In this case, an analysis search grouped by reference will quickly locate Mk 12:16, Lk 16:6, Lk 22:38 and Acts 12:15 where the phrase occurs twice. But that's a workaround too, and although it's easy for this search, it wouldn't necessarily be so easy with other searches.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532099#Comment_532099

(peter OR peter's) AND (jesus OR jesus' OR christ OR christ's)

I'm confused by the results of various permutations on the above.

Each word is counted, as Peter is different to Peter's, etc. The parentheses () is only used for ensuring the terms are correctly evaluated with respect to OR and AND.

If you use lists:

(peter, peter's) AND (jesus, jesus', christ, christ's)

Peter is now treated the same as Peter's, Jesus the same as Jesus', etc and the count is much less (84 vs 121 in ESV). You can also see that only two colours are used in the results.

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532147#Comment_532147

Each word is counted, as Peter is different to Peter's, etc. The parentheses () is only used for ensuring the terms are correctly evaluated with respect to OR and AND.

If you use lists:

(peter, peter's) AND (jesus, jesus', christ, christ's)

Peter is now treated the same as Peter's, Jesus the same as Jesus', etc and the count is much less (84 vs 121 in ESV). You can also see that only two colours are used in the results.

Thanks. I guess I never realized that distinction between the comma operator and OR. That's definitely better results.

Is that part of the riddle of why these searches differ?

(peter OR peter's) AND (jesus OR jesus' OR christ OR christ's)

(peter OR peter's) AND (jesus OR jesus' OR christ)

Where I removed the last element, "christ's". The hit count was higher for the first search but "christ's" was never shown in the results. The actual result set is the same for both searches, but the hit count differs. All hits on each term are counted regardless of whether they satisfy the entire expression, but the results displayed are only those that satisfy the entire expression.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532156#Comment_532156

Is that part of the riddle of why these searches differ?

No. If match all word forms is on, then christ and christ's are treated in the same way. So christ's is finding the 9 occurrences of christ, and they're getting added to the count.

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/532160#Comment_532160

It's embarrassing how little I still know about Logos after a year with it. I don't think I ever paid this much attention to the exact numbers returned before. Thanks for the explanations, it's starting to sink in now.