Interlinear question about Ecc.12:1..."Creator" plural or singular?

David P. Moore

I was studying Ecc.12:1 tonight and read in a resource that "creator" was a plural noun, and I thought I would see that in an interlinear. However, there it is called a singular verb (VaR-MSC). So.....I don't understand. I admit I'm a novice when looking at the original language, but this was just nagging me enough to do a post and ask. Actually I get 70 hits on "<ecc12.1> NEAR plural", most talking about how the word "creator" is a plural noun. Why doesn't the interlinear back that up? 

Dave Hooton

I did a search for בּוֹֽרְאֶ֫יךָ NEAR  (plural, singular)  and got:

• NAC on Eccl 2:12 notes that the participle is plural in a footnote
• Gesenius Hebrew Grammar states that the singular "should be read" in a article on uses of the Plural form.

Otherwise your search yielded:

• Complete Word Study Bible states Creator is plural
• EBC on Gen 9:26 implies it is singular
• Matthew Henry on Job 35:9-13 considers it to be plural
• NTSK on Job 35:10 says it is plural
• Wilmington's Book of Bible Lists on God says it is plural

All my interlinears (English, Hebrew and Greek) & BHS/WIVU have a morphology of singular but AFAT & BHS/WHM have it as plural.

It would seem that a dispassionate view has it as singular but a traditional view is plural.

HansK

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533508#Comment_533508

It is plural. But by many commentators it is a pl. majestatis.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533515#Comment_533515

HansK said:

It is plural. But by many commentators it is a pl. majestatis.

After a search of my Grammars I found this definition:-

PLURALIS MAJESTATIS  If the plural form does not express a normal numerical plural, but indicates that something or someone is mighty, big, terrible or respectable, it is called the pluralis majestatis or royal plural.

Van der Merwe, C., Naudé, J., Kroeze, J., Van der Merwe, C., Naudé, J., & Kroeze, J. (1999). A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar (electronic ed., p. 363). Sheffield: Sheffield Academic Press.

That would follow only if people agreed it was a plural form. Why does this word get the 'singular' attribute in morphology?

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533517#Comment_533517

Dave Hooton said:

 Why does this word get the 'singular' attribute in morphology?

Perhaps because it can't be given the attribute "married" until after the wedding supper? [:^)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533519#Comment_533519

I'd think an expert 'at the time' would be the better evidence. Marcion clearly thought of the two, only 'one' did the deed. But we don't know if he studied hebrew, his dad being the bishop, etc.

Milford Charles Murray

David P. Moore said:

I was studying Ecc.12:1 tonight and read in a resource that "creator" was a plural noun, and I thought I would see that in an interlinear. However, there it is called a singular verb (VaR-MSC). So.....I don't understand. I admit I'm a novice when looking at the original language, but this was just nagging me enough to do a post and ask. Actually I get 70 hits on "<ecc12.1> NEAR plural", most talking about how the word "creator" is a plural noun. Why doesn't the interlinear back that up? 

Peace, David!                 Thanks for posting!           *smile*

                  I'll be studying this later today; however, I am quite "startled" by the Jewish Publication Society Tanakh translation where it's not Creator, but "vigor"!            Wow!                   I will be studying that today also -  for sure!                  Does your resource that you mentioned deal with that, please???

12 So appreciate your vigor^a in the days of your youth, before those days of sorrow come and those years arrive of which you will say, “I have no pleasure in them”; ²before sun and light and moon and stars grow dark, and the clouds come back again after the rain:

³When the guards of the house^b become shaky,

And the men of valor^c are bent,

And the maids that grind,^d grown few, are idle,

And the ladies that peer through the windows^e grow dim,

⁴And the doors to the street^f are shut—

With the noise of the hand mill growing fainter,

And the song of the bird ^g-growing feebler,^-g

And all the strains of music dying down;^h

⁵When one is afraid of heights

And there is terror on the road.—

For the almond tree may blossom,

^i-The grasshopper be burdened,^-i

And the caper bush may bud again;^j

But man sets out for his eternal abode,

With mourners all around in the street.—

⁶Before the silver cord snaps

And the golden bowl crashes,

The jar is shattered at the spring,

And the jug^k is smashed at the cistern.^l

⁷And the dust returns to the ground

As it was,

And the lifebreath returns to God

Who bestowed it.

⁸Utter futility—said Koheleth—

All is futile!

⁹A further word: Because Koheleth was a sage, he continued to instruct the people. He listened to and tested the soundness^m of many maxims. ¹⁰Koheleth sought to discover useful sayings and recordedⁿ genuinely truthful sayings. ¹¹The sayings of the wise are like goads, like nails fixed ^o-in prodding sticks.^-op-They were given by one Shepherd.^-p

¹²A further word: ^q-Against them,^-q my son, be warned!

The making of many books is without limit

And much study^r is a wearying of the flesh.

¹³The sum of the matter, when all is said and done: Revere God and observe His commandments! For this applies to all mankind: ¹⁴that God will call every creature to account for ^s-everything unknown,^-s be it good or bad.

 The sum of the matter, when all is said and done: Revere God and observe His commandments! For this applies to all mankind.^[1]

 

---

^a  Cf. postbiblical bori; others “Remember thy Creator.”

^b  I.e., the arms.

^c  I.e., the legs.

^d  I.e., the teeth.

^e  I.e., the eyes.

^f  I.e., the ears.

^g-  Exact meaning of Heb. uncertain.

^-g  Exact meaning of Heb. uncertain.

^h  Cf. 2 Sam. 19.36.

^i-  Emendation yields “The squill (postbiblical Heb. ḥaṣab) resume its burden,” i.e., its blossom-stalk and its leaves.

^-i  Emendation yields “The squill (postbiblical Heb. ḥaṣab) resume its burden,” i.e., its blossom-stalk and its leaves.

^j  These plants, after seeming dead for part of the year, revive, unlike man; cf. Job 14.7–10.

^k  So in Punic; others “wheel.”

^l  Poetic figure for the end of life.

^m  A noun, like dibber (Jer. 5.13 ), which occurs in such postbiblical phrases as shanim kethiq(qe)nan, “normal years” (lit. “years according to their propriety”).

ⁿ  Wekhathub is equivalent to wekhathob, an infinitive employed as in Esth. 9.16 and elsewhere.

^o-  Meaning of Heb. uncertain Others “are those that are composed in collections.”

^-o  Meaning of Heb. uncertain Others “are those that are composed in collections.”

^p-  Meaning of Heb. uncertain Emendation yields “They are accounted as a sharp ox goad” (post-biblical mardea˓).

^-p  Meaning of Heb. uncertain Emendation yields “They are accounted as a sharp ox goad” (post-biblical mardea˓).

^q-  Emendation yields “Slow, there!” Cf. Arabic mah and mah mah; so also mah (meh) in Prov. 31.2.

^-q  Emendation yields “Slow, there!” Cf. Arabic mah and mah mah; so also mah (meh) in Prov. 31.2.

^r  Meaning of Heb. uncertain

^s-  Emendation yields “all their conduct.”

^-s  Emendation yields “all their conduct.”

^[1] Jewish Publication Society. (1985). Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (Ec 12:1–14). Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society.

David P. Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533625#Comment_533625

Thanks all for chiming in. I did note later that the YLT does render it "Creators," but is the only translation I have that does that. And thanks Hans and Dave: I've learned something new with "pluralis majestatis." All of your replies gives me thoughts to mull over. Wish there were 25 hours in a day!

Milford Charles Murray said:

Does your resource that you mentioned deal with that, please???

Milford: interesting translation of "vigor." See the JPS Bible Commentary: Ecclesiastes, where it explains further: 

12:1 appreciate your vigor Hebrew zekhor ʾet borʾeykha; its plain sense is “remember your Creator.” NJPS instead identifies borʾeykha with a rabbinic word bori, meaning “health” or “vigor.” Many other commentators have likewise felt that “remember your Creator” is too pietistic to suit Koheleth, and they also wonder how remembering God would be relevant to the exhortation to enjoy life. Nevertheless, the advice “remember your Creator” fits well in the passage, echoing and reinforcing the cautionary note in 11:9b (“but know well that God will call you to account for all such things”). Both sentences counterbalance the advice to enjoy life with an admonition to remember that God is watching over your acts.
Rabbi Akiva saw a triple meaning in the word borʾeykha, reading it as beʾerka, “your well” (semen); boreka, “your pit” (the grave); and borʾeykha, “your Creator” (God) (Lev. R.18.1).

Michael V. Fox, Ecclesiastes, The JPS Bible Commentary (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 2004), 77–78.

Again, not enough time to chase all my rabbits!