Colleges require current literature

Most of the text books I need each semester are not available on Logos. There is, however, a large amount of outdated books I can't use. Perhaps Logos can check with colleges and find out which books will be needed for the upcoming semester and make these available. You have a market available to you that you aren't targeting yet. It's a great app. It just needs the resources to back it up.

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Mark Barnes

Perhaps Logos can check with colleges and find out which books will be needed for the upcoming semester and make these available.

Logos already do this, and work very hard to work with seminaries to try and make sure the resources they need are available. In the past, they've requested professors send their reading lists for that very reason.

Most of the text books I need each semester are not available on Logos.

Could you post a list of the text books you need for a couple of classes? It would be interesting to see what is and isn't in Logos.

David Beth-El

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536076#Comment_536076

That's good news that Logos is doing this. The reading lists are available at ac.edu.au Go to courses, I'm studying BTh but there are many other subjects. Go to units and all the reading lists are there. Happy researching. I really love Logos; I'd love to use it more.

Russ White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536076#Comment_536076

I'm constantly finding things I need for papers but aren't available in Logos --here's the list from the last two papers I worked on:

Barnett, Paul. Jesus and the Logic of History. New studies in Biblical theology / Eerdmans. Grand Rapids, Mich: Eerdmans, 1997.

Beale, G. K. The Right Doctrine from the Wrong Texts?: Essays on the Use of the Old Testament in the New. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 1994.

Birnbaum, S.A. “Bar Kokbha and Akiba.” Palestine Exploration Quarterly (1954): 23–33.

Ellis, John M. Against Deconstruction. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 1989.

Feinberg, C.L., J.S. Feinberg, and P.D. Feinberg. Tradition and Testament: Essays in Honor of Charles Lee Feinberg. Moody Press, 1981.

Feinberg, John S., ed. Continuity and Discontinuity: Perspectives on the Relationship Between the Old and New Testaments: Essays in Honor of S. Lewis Johnson, Jr. Westchester, IL: Crossway Books, 1988.

Fitzmyer, Joseph A. “The Causes of the Second Revolt.” The Bible in Current Catholic Thought. Edited by J.L. McKenzie. Herder and Herder, 1962.

France, R.T. Jesus and the Old Testament: His Application of Old Testament Passages to Himself and His Mission. Regent College Publishing, 2000.

Fruchtenbaum, Arnold G. “How the New Testament Quotes the Old Testament”. Ariel Ministries, 2005.

Gichon, Mordechai. “New Insight into the Bar Kokhba War and a Reappraisal of Dio Cassius 69:12-13.” Jewish Quarterly Review 77, no. 1 (1986): 15 – 43.

Gruber, D. Rabbi Akiba’s Messiah: The Origins of Rabbinic Authority. CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform, 2013.

Gundry, S.N., and K. Berding. Three Views on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament. Counterpoints: Bible and Theology. Zondervan, 2009.

Isaac, Benjamin H., and Aharon Oppenheimer. “The Revolt of Bar Kokhba: Ideology and Modern Scholarship.” Journal of Jewish Studies 36, no. 1 (1985): 33 – 60.

Johnson, D.E. Him We Proclaim: Preaching Christ from All the Scriptures. P & R Publishing Company, 2007.

Lindars, B., D.A. Carson, and H.G.M. Williamson. It Is Written: Scripture Citing Scripture: Essays in Honour of Barnabas Lindars, Ssf. Cambridge books online. University Press, 1988.

Schäfer, P. The Bar Kokhba War Reconsidered: New Perspectives on the Second Jewish Revolt Against Rome. Texte und Studien zum antiken Judentum. Mohr Siebeck GmbH & Company K, 2003. No pages. Online: http://books.google.com/books?id=1TA-Fg4wBnUC.

Schafer, Peter. “The Causes of the Bar Kokhba Revolt.” Pages 74 – 94 in Studies in Aggadah, Targum, and Jewish Liturgy in Memory of Joseph Heinemann. Magnes Press, 1981. Online: http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=rfh&AN=ATLA0001124887&site=ehost-live.

Three Central Issues in Contemporary Dispensationalism: a Comparison of Traditional and Progressive Views. Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 1999.

Some of this stuff I'd expect not to be there --but I'm always surprised at a lot of the stuff I can't find in Logos. It is Written? Three Central Issues? Him We Proclaim? Three Views? Continuity and Discontinuity? These are pretty major works, can't see how they're not making it into Logos. It's starting to feel like Logos is primarily producing really nicely formatted sets of public domain works, while most of the new scholarship is only available on Kindle and other places.

Russ

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536079#Comment_536079

Three Views? Continuity and Discontinuity?

These two are both available (or have been):

It's starting to feel like Logos is primarily producing really nicely formatted sets of public domain works, while most of the new scholarship is only available on Kindle and other places.

I don't think that's fair, with the number of new books available from T & T Clark, Sheffield Academic Press, Zondervan, Baker, Eerdmans, B&H and Fortress. What is true is that many publishers — including several important ones — haven't yet been persuaded to make their publications available. It's also true that Logos have prioritised — rightly, in my view — books that add most value in the Logos ego system, namely reference works and commentaries. So the percentage of books available for a theology class will be less than that for a biblical studies class.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536077#Comment_536077

That's good news that Logos is doing this. The reading lists are available at ac.edu.au Go to courses, I'm studying BTh but there are many other subjects. Go to units and all the reading lists are there. Happy researching. I really love Logos; I'd love to use it more.

I checked the lists for Biblical Hebrew and Pentateuch. 58% of those resources were available in Logos. In the Biblical Hebrew module, only one of the resources was available for Kindle.

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536087#Comment_536087

Also available is Beale, G. K. The Right Doctrine from the Wrong Texts?: Essays on the Use of the Old Testament in the New. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 1994.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536079#Comment_536079

I don't think you searched hard enough in the Logos website. They do carry these ones (links to the product descriptions pages provided):

I'm constantly finding things I need for papers but aren't available in Logos --here's the list from the last two papers I worked on:

Beale, G. K. The Right Doctrine from the Wrong Texts?: Essays on the Use of the Old Testament in the New. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 1994.

Feinberg, John S., ed. Continuity and Discontinuity: Perspectives on the Relationship Between the Old and New Testaments: Essays in Honor of S. Lewis Johnson, Jr. Westchester, IL: Crossway Books, 1988.

Gundry, S.N., and K. Berding. Three Views on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament. Counterpoints: Bible and Theology. Zondervan, 2009.

Some of this stuff I'd expect not to be there --but I'm always surprised at a lot of the stuff I can't find in Logos. It is Written? Three Central Issues? Him We Proclaim? Three Views? Continuity and Discontinuity? These are pretty major works, can't see how they're not making it into Logos. It's starting to feel like Logos is primarily producing really nicely formatted sets of public domain works, while most of the new scholarship is only available on Kindle and other places.

Two of those major ones you would expect to be in Logos are. I agree that the other ones you expected which aren't should be, but don't exaggerate the problem.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536080#Comment_536080

Three Views on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament

This is not the same title as:

Gundry, S.N., and K. Berding. Three Views on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament. Counterpoints: Bible and Theology. Zondervan, 2009.

Russ' book is a "Counterpoint" title answering the first authors' positions. It was published a year later and is written by different men.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536112#Comment_536112

http://www.fuller.edu/schedule/

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536076#Comment_536076

Logos already do this, and work very hard to work with seminaries to try and make sure the resources they need are available. In the past, they've requested professors send their reading lists for that very reason.

It all depends on the seminary. As I have said before, there was (and still isn't) anything in Logos that I could use for my seminary classes (with the exception being my language/scripture classes).

Tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536144#Comment_536144

As I have said before, there was (and still isn't) anything in Logos that I could use for my seminary classes (with the exception being my language/scripture classes).

Are you saying that NONE of you classes require knowledge of "Luther and his works" and the historic confessions? [:^)]

I only ask because of your "Faith Life" activity highly suggests you are attending a Lutheran Seminary. [:)]

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536144#Comment_536144

As I have said before, there was (and still isn't) anything in Logos that I could use for my seminary classes (with the exception being my language/scripture classes).

Maybe your seminary needs to have a wider reading list, that includes a few titles from Zondervan, Baker, T &T Clark, Fortress, etc....

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536079#Comment_536079

I'm constantly finding things I need for papers but aren't available in Logos --here's the list from the last two papers I worked on:

Russ,

one thing interesting came to my mind when I saw your list and thought of the thread title "current". You mainly used literature from the 1980s, some a couple of years older, some a bit younger. In terms of theological textbooks thus is current, but in terms of eBook production this is like cuniform tablets, meaning not even the publishers have electronic texts of these - in the case of reprints, they scan an old copy and print 300 pictures into a book. Nowadays the books are produced electronically and many of them will become available as Kindle and/or ePub editions.

Thus I believe Logos will somewhat be able to catch up with the 21st century production (my mantra: if they aren't able to produce a full-fledged resource, they should at least have a vyrso edition of every meaningful theological book that becomes available electronically - save commentaries), but I wouldn't expect a full coverage for all of the books since WWII.

David Beth-El

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536087#Comment_536087

Sorry this thread has become a bit gripey, that wasn't really the intention. I wonder though, of the books that are available, how many are only available in massive collections. The easy payment options are helpful but in the case of the languages, for example, I just don't need $600 worth of resources on every language; I only need Greek. CBD have the pack I need in print for $126 (Basics of Biblical Greek pack). I would love to buy it from Logos; I'd even pay more to have it as a digital set but CBD have the right pack at the right price and they have it now, and that's really the point. Some of the books for biblical studies are available on Logos, but again, only in sets college students can't afford. The bundles are a great idea (I recently bought the Moltmann bundle on a payment plan and I love it, thanks) but every book could be available individually or in the least bundled into smaller, more logical packs (like the biblical Greek pack from CBD).

I notice too that some of the books in Logos are 2-3 times the price of kindle editions. Logos is massively superior, yes, but if I only want to rip a quote or two from the book and not use it extensively in the future, I have to go with the best option, which is not always the cheapest, but 3 times the price - no, but 1.1-1.5 times - yes. As I said, I love Logos. It's always my first option when I'm searching for books. I wish I could give you all my business instead of just a few tidbits.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536079#Comment_536079

https://www.logos.com/product/5330/the-right-doctrine-from-the-wrong-texts-essays-on-the-use-of-the-old-testament-in-the-new

https://www.logos.com/product/2915/continuity-and-discontinuity

These two are available...others may be as well. Interesting that your syllabus has Gruber's book. I'm just finishing the last chapter. Awesome. Only book I've read that I feel like I could recommend to someone else without hesitation.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536229#Comment_536229

I only need Greek.

Like you only need the plague. With a name like Beth-El you can say this with a straight face? Perhaps you are already fluent in Hebrew, yes?

David Beth-El

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536249#Comment_536249

Not quite my point. These forums take the form of letters, not legal documents; it was a sentence, not an absolute statement of fact.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536229#Comment_536229

Sorry this thread has become a bit gripey, that wasn't really the intention.…As I said, I love Logos. It's always my first option when I'm searching for books. I wish I could give you all my business instead of just a few tidbits.

Those are good points - and said in a good spirit. Thanks. You're not the only only to be similarly frustrated, and perhaps one day Logos will change this practice and unbundle things earlier.

David Beth-El

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536258#Comment_536258

[:)]

I suppose these are the problems Logos wants to have - namely, customers loving to product so much they demand the company sell them more. If nothing else comes from this thread it at least gives Logos 2 more college web sites research when adding books.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536265#Comment_536265

The New Oxford Annotated Bible is one resource frequently required in colleges and universities, yet it was shockingly absent when Logos when they released the many items from OUP earlier this year. Indeed Wordsearch has released it so it would seem odd that Logos would not be able to get it since they were able to get the Catholic Study Bible and Jewish study Bible.

-Dan

Bob Pritchett

We appreciate suggestions, which you can send to suggest@logos.com.

Unfortunately many schools have book lists full of 'books current when the prof started teaching this class.' :-) The 1970s, 80s, and even early 90s are difficult years for us to license from: publishers often (usually) don't have electronic files, the contracts were written before anyone though about digital (so it's not clear if the publisher or author had the rights), the book may be out of print (which may invoke a confusing rights-status issue), and sometimes the author is dead and it's hard not only to know if the publisher has rights, but if not which heir does.

See: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/the-hole-in-our-collective-memory-how-copyright-made-mid-century-books-vanish/278209/

I'm not anti-copyright (I'm for it), but I do support reasonable Orphan Works and 'safe harbor' laws: http://blog.logos.com/2006/08/progress_on_copyrighted_orphan/

-- Bob

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536315#Comment_536315

See: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/the-hole-in-our-collective-memory-how-copyright-made-mid-century-books-vanish/278209/

I'm not anti-copyright (I'm for it), but I do support reasonable Orphan Works and 'safe harbor' laws: http://blog.logos.com/2006/08/progress_on_copyrighted_orphan/

Very interesting thank you for the information on copyright orphan works…. and I and most realize you can only do so much at a time even when things are easily available. Let alone the lost gems.

-Dan