Will the new Dell Venue 8.1 Windows Tablets run Logos?
With 2 GB of ram, not very well. Very slowly.
Thanks for replying Michael. Shucks!
There will be a Dell Venue 11 Pro that will have up to 8 GB of Ram and up to 256 GB of SSD drive. That should be able to run Logos quite well.
http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/secure/en/Documents/dell-venue-11pro-brochure.pdf
There will be a Dell Venue 11 Pro that will have up to 8 GB of Ram and up to 256 GB of SSD drive. That should be able to run Logos quite well. http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/secure/en/Documents/dell-venue-11pro-brochure.pdf
I'm afraid that's going to be priced out of my reach.
The Dell XPS 11 looks nice as well. It is another take on the Lenovo Yoga 11S. I wonder if they will come out with a 13" version to take on the Yoga Pro?
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/19/campaigns/xps-11
I am with Todd. Please someone make an affordable Surface Pro 2 competitor we can all enjoy Logos on.
Heavy sigh,.
I am with Todd. Please someone make an affordable Surface Pro 2 competitor we can all enjoy Logos on. Heavy sigh,.
We all agree with that. <\P>
However, to run Logos 5 well a tablet will need 8 GB Ram, a strong processor, preferably a quad i5 or i7, and at least a 256 GB SSD hard drive. All that does not come cheaply. There may be a bargain tablet that will run Logos 5, but the question is how well. <\P>
I would expect Dells Venue pro 11 will be a little cheaper that the Surface Pro 2, but I doubt it will be much cheaper.<\P>
And even with the tablet that can run Logos, don't forget Logos 5 was not written for a touch screen, but a keyboard. That will be a factor to consider. Logos needs some modifications to make it more tablet friendly.<\P>
It is a couple of pounds heavier, but I wonder it the Dell XPS 12 convertible might not be a better solution right now.
I think Jesus will come back before we get a useable affordable Logos 5 machine that is more than a reader.
Still too expensive with not enough ram to run L5 properly.
[N]
Josh,<\P>
It is a bit confusing because the thread has discussed two tablets: the Dell Venue 8 and Dell Venue 11 pro. I agree that the Venue 8 does not have enough RAM to run Logos well. But the Venue 11 pro can have 8 GB of RAM. It also has an new quad 4 processor. I believe that is more than enough to run Logos.<\P>
Expensive? That sounds like your mean the Venue 11 pro - Yes, but it is cheaper than its equally equipped competitors like Surface pro 2, and not much more than an equally equipped laptop. There is no such thing as a cheap machine with 8 GB of RAM, a quad 4 i5 processor, and a SSD 256 GB HD. The Venue 11 with these specs will not be out until about the first of December. Less powerful versions are for sale now. But if running Logos is the reason for buying, it is better to wait a few weeks.<\P>
But the Dell Venue 11 should have everything it needs to run Logos 5, and be not much more expensive an equally equipped laptop. And there are other tablets out there than can run Logos as fast as any laptop right now. But none inexpensively.<\P>
Thanks Mr. Weber. My curiosity is peaked. Keep posting - especially on the day you return it.
Community service freebie:
If you run into a problem with the wifi Dell's WiFi driver, go to the Dell site, download the Dell Wireless 1538 WAPI Application (File: DW1538_WAPI_2007_WB32_setup_ZPE.exe) updated on 23/October/2013, install and reboot. It might help. I borrowed this fix online and thought it might be fun to post it for you.
Please let us know how it works with a good stylus and cover/case. I pray its a blessing for you.
Waiting expectantly and hoping for us all.
Very interesting. Thanks for the report!
Just got the Dell Venue 8 Pro. In my opinion, Logos 5 runs acceptable. Takes about 3-5 seconds to open a resource from my library. Around 10-12 seconds to run a search. Touch scrolling is slightly laggy but acceptable - you'll want to go in portrait mode. Voice reading is great. Indexer is pegging my CPU right now but somehow it's still responsive. RAM is at 1.3 of 1.9GB used - not paging yet. Bay Trail is way better than previous Atom processors. I confirmed this with a Windows 8 App, Excel and PowerPivot as well (I'm a developer). It's not nearly as fast as my Surface Pro but for a reader, it's just fine. Now I'm certain that battery will go down the tube if the indexer is running and there's no telling how long it will run. I have the Logos Resource files stored on a microSDHC which is much faster than when I tried it over a year ago. (up to 30MB/s). I bought the 32GB Venue Pro but there's a 64GB available. I'm certain the indexer would run faster. You cannot charge this on your desktop or laptop which is a little disappointing. It requires a 10W USB charger. I also bought an Asus T100 for my wife for $389. I'm sure the experience would be the same as the CPU and RAM are the same. I need to give it more time. I have about a 12GB resource library and I'm crossing my fingers the indexer can get through it on an SD card in my lifetime. "Preparing your library" took about an hour. However, I'm more than pleased with the responsiveness even while resources are pegged. I'm not sure if Logos does a full indexing after every update. If it does, that my hurt a little as it seems the devs release about every other week. Oh it's soooo lite however. A much better companion to my work-horse laptop than the Surface Pro. I've come to the realization that even on a 10.1 or 12" screen you are not going to be productive. It's been a dream to have the Window Logos desktop app on something portable. It completely blows away iOS. Folks, even if I had more RAM I'm not certain I'd get better performance. It's the CPU. i5s and Haswells work extremely well with Logos. When it comes to file I/O, CPU and disk speed is where it's at. Logos is continually loading your resources from GBs of file into memory and writing to the index. Regardless - pleasantly surprised so far. Definitely will be using it in Church. I don't have a stylus yet but that's the next step. Under screen resolution, you'll want to manually enlarge text to 125% right off the bat. Desktop mode is tiny.
Thanks for being so thorough. I am now even more discouraged.
Is it possible to download only a select list of books/resources on your Dell Tablet (e.g. just the various Bible, lexicons) or any laptop without downloading your entire library? It hopefully consume less space and also allow the indexer to run faster?
Thanks for your description of Logos and the Dell Venue 8.1. Might you share a bit more regarding how one stores the Resource files on a microSDHC card? Can that happen in the actual install process? Or only post-install? With the 32GB Dell and the limited available memory, and a resource folder larger than the limited available memory, I've wondered whether any install of Logos would short-circuited . . . i.e. I'd never get the resources to a point where I could transfer them to an SDHC card.
Also, can the index file be moved to an SDHC card?
Michael, your posts have been such a blessing here and so informative. Thanks.
Why would anyone want the less robust Dell Venue 8 with even fewer GB please?
32GB is fine if you get a 64GB SD card as I indicated.
You will have to move the resource folders using mklink. I can't recall the exact command but I think you'll find if it you search for it on the forums. It creates a "symbolic" link - a pointer - to your SD.
General steps:
1. Shutdown logos.
2. Go to resource folder and copy specific folders to SD.
3. Make symbolic links in resource folder to point to new location.
Also remember to increase your desktop resolution to 125% at a minimum.
The stylus is subpar. See if you can get along without it.
I love my Dell Venue 8 usage with Logos. But unlike with people, I'm longsuffering with technology. (Work in progress!)
I moved my BibleIndex, LibraryIndex and ResourceManager to the SD.
Works fine for me.
Make sure it's the microSDHC. Or avoid headaches by getting the 64GB Dell Venue 8. You'll pay $40+ for the SD anyways.
This is perfect. Thank you very much for your time. One follow-up question . . . given that a successful initial install is critical to make possible a later move of files, I'm assuming you had enough space in the 32GB version to do that initial install? [My resource folder is 13GB, and my total Logos folder in the Users locations is 21GB]
I was envisioning a possible workaround there--http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers (Method 3)--where I could install only the system (absent resources) on the Dell, and then I'd copy resources from my laptop onto the SDHC card, and then I'd "scan <path to your resources> in the Command box, designating the SDHC card as the path. If I'm understanding the "scan" function correctly, I'd be left with my system and index files on the Dell, and the resources on the SDHC card. If needed, does that workaround make sense?
Again, thanks for your time. And for the reminder that the 64GB version would avoid some of these challenges A $229 Microsoft deal today on the 32GB version was the conversation catalyst.
Blessings.
I'm not sure in your case. I have about the same size.
I did not wait for the indexes to complete but I did let them start. I then stopped Logos and got everything moved over.
Indexing will be much slower on the SD so if you have the space, you may want to let them finish.
Logos will run faster on the main drive then SD. It's not much of a difference but you will notice it.
Again, thank you for the time you took to respond. Much appreciated! God bless.
Michael and others, anyone have a good link for the 64 GB version?
My wife would be thrilled if I spent under $400 for such an item? What other cons are there?
Can it be hooked up to a larger monitor? Charged at the same time its being used? Do you need a magnifiying glass and a needle to use the menus? Is it ok that my heart is pumping faster thinking this might be a good cheap possibility at long last?
I wonder what Lisa at www.mobiletechreview.com thinks. Will have to check.
Blessings,
Joshua
Microsoft is running a sale today. The 64GB Dell is on sale for $299. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/list/Tablets/categoryID.67092800 I don't believe there is an easy way to connect it to a large monitor, unfortunately. The Toshiba Encore does have an HDMI out. The Lenovo ThinkPad 8, offered for sale as of today, is starting at $429, but it has a much better display than either the Dell or Toshiba and possesses impressive porting ability. It has HDMI as well as USB 3.
The Dell can be charged while being used, but there is no way to use the mini-USB for anything else if you are charging it.
The Asus VivoTab Note 8 is not available yet, but that uses the reliable WACOM active digitizer, storing the pen in the case. It has similar specs to the Dell, but with a superior digitizer (Dell has had lots of problems with their active digitizer; they are currently not selling it--is an add-on--but a Dell rep told me today that it will be available mid-February for $40 . . . the VivoTab's pen will be included in their base unit price).
Thanks. Steve. The Toshiba has a lot of cons and I've read its quite bulky.
I had looked forward to this one but its got a lot of problems too.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Dell-Venue-11-Pro-Tablet/productID.289455100
Can a person really use Logos 5.0 with 2.0 GB/64 GB SSD?
Is this one any better?
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Lenovo-Miix-2-8-Touchscreen-Tablet-64GB/productID.288728600
Hate to be stuck with an turkey I have to ebay.
Found this at besbuy site as advice after buying this one.
Here is a nicely configured Windows 8 machine - not a tablet, but a nice desktop for less than $500:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EOGGTJ2/tag=fhj-20
Floyd, I will have some trouble using that one in bed, Sir.
As for the Venue 11 pro I just found this among many negative early reviews.
Dell's Venue Pro 11 offers a Surface Pro 2 alternative at a lower price point, but disappoints with sub-par battery life
You did not ask for a bed sized one. You asked for a "useable affordable Logos 5 machine" - this fits that bill. I understand that most of this discussion focused on tablets - but your comment left me enough room to post a link to a "useable affordable Logos 5 machine."
The problem with the Dell and the other Windows 8 tablets is that they don't have a Wacom active digitizer. On such a small screen you need an active digitizer to manipulate the Logos controls.
I am waiting for the Asus Vivo-Tab Note, which is an 8-inch tablet with Wacom digitizer and pen. Reportedly, the 64 GB verison will be $349 when it is released sometime at the end of the first quarter, 2014.
Bill, Sir, I just just found this. "Even at 100%, we found the display was too dim to effectively use outside, with reflections and glare getting in our way" and this too "However, the screen isn’t as sharp as we’d like and it’s also too dim to comfortably use out of doors, while we noticed the occasional stutter during everyday use."
Rats!
The problem with the Dell and the other Windows 8 tablets is that they don't have a Wacom active digitizer. On such a small screen you need an active digitizer to manipulate the Logos controls. I am waiting for the Asus Vivo-Tab Note, which is an 8-inch tablet with Wacom digitizer and pen. Reportedly, the 64 GB verison will be $349 when it is released sometime at the end of the first quarter, 2014.
Bill, I am not a tech expert. But I can speak from my experience on the Surface Pro. I don't what kind of pen the Surface Pro uses, but I know it works very well. It is really great for taking notes. That thing even reads my sloppy handwriting and converts it to text. Okay, it reads more of my handwriting than I can, and sometimes needs a little editing.
(I am speaking about in OneNote there. Logos, of course, does not convert handwriting to text. And I know it is the program, not the pen reading the text. But the pen does its work almost flawlessly for me.).
And it has no problem with the Logos controls. That is my experience about 6 weeks out with extensive use.
Now personally, I do prefer my wireless mouse and fingers combined over the pen in Logos. It is just easier to touch, and I am used to using the mouse for small controls, where my fingers are too big. But I have used the pen a good bit, and it worked well.
I don't know tech, but I know what works. I have never had a device better designed than the Surface Pro 2 for using Logos. Inside of two days I was addicted. When I have to use Logos on another computer, I catch myself reaching up and tapping or scrolling the screen with my fingers, and wondering why nothing is happening, And I am forever changed in how I take notes.
Nor have I had any problems with screen brightness, I would say it is beautiful and bright screen. Of course, I haven't tried it at the beach. But on porch and patio, there is no problem.
By the way, neither I nor my family work for Microsoft, though I bet some of you are beginning to wonder. Lord, help me. I sound just like the Mac fan boys!!! I will try to shut up about this, unless I have something worthwhile to add to the discussion.
Surface Pro has the best pen experience.
I still like the Venue 11 as a cheaper alternative. Also, the Venue 11 has a softer tip which provides resistance. The Pro's stylus is hardened and slides across the glass - not in a good way.
Although - I used the Surface Pro for year and it was magnificent except for battery. I think the Surface 2 fixed that however.
Believe it or not, I still like the Venue 8 - glitches and all - over both. It's just small and easier to get out. I agree, fat fingers need not apply .
http://www.cnet.com/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-tablet-2/4505-3121_7-35411720.html
Surface Pro has the best pen experience. I still like the Venue 11 as a cheaper alternative. Also, the Venue 11 has a softer tip which provides resistance. The Pro's stylus is hardened and slides across the glass - not in a good way. Although - I used the Surface Pro for year and it was magnificent except for battery. I think the Surface 2 fixed that however. Believe it or not, I still like the Venue 8 - glitches and all - over both. It's just small and easier to get out. I agree, fat fingers need not apply .
I don't disagree with that, especially if the price is better and the processor as good. In fact, I tried to buy the Venue 11 with 8 GB of ram hoping it would cheaper. I think it is a good option. I didn't buy it because (1) it wasn't available for the home market with 8 gig of ram, only for the business market and I had no business account, and (2) I have some concern about its processor. I like Dell products as a rule. In fact, my last couple of laptops have been Dell.
As for the Venue 8, I wanted my Windows tablet to be able to do everything my laptop and desktop could. Two gig of ram will never do that for me. Eight gig is the minimum I could accept. My Surface Pro 2 is really a full desktop replacement with no compromise. So I could not consider the Venue 8. I would pull out my hair just waiting for Logos to do something. I guess that I just don't understand what the Venue 8 could do for me.
My battery life on the Surface Pro 2 is just a bit more than 5 hours of steady use. Of course, I keep it plugged in at my office to have the battery for use at home in the evening. Seems to more than meet my needs.
As for the pen, I have nothing else to compare it to, but it works perfectly for me.
Hey, it is what works for you. God lead you and bless you, and I believe which ever you chose will be a wonderful tool for God's glory. After all, none of us would exchange the Holy Spirit for any computer, tablet, or device.
so 4-8 megs of ram, a stylus, and a prayer of affording it?
got it? I guess I am back to hoping an Amazon drone will one drop off a free Surface Pro 2 on my doorstep...on a parachute that lands softly of course.
Its nice to have a dream.[G]
The problem with the Dell and the other Windows 8 tablets is that they don't have a Wacom active digitizer. On such a small screen you need an active digitizer to manipulate the Logos controls. I am waiting for the Asus Vivo-Tab Note, which is an 8-inch tablet with Wacom digitizer and pen. Reportedly, the 64 GB verison will be $349 when it is released sometime at the end of the first quarter, 2014. Bill, I am not a tech expert. But I can speak from my experience on the Surface Pro. I don't what kind of pen the Surface Pro uses, but I know it works very well. It is really great for taking notes. That thing even reads my sloppy handwriting and converts it to text. Okay, it reads more of my handwriting than I can, and sometimes needs a little editing.
I believe the Surface Pro and Pro 2 have a Wacom digitizer. As you say, the pen works very well in Logos on the Surface Pro 2. For my tablet wants, I like an 8-incher because it is light and easy to hold. If the Asus tablet comes close to functioning well, I may consider it.
That's been out for a while, Josh. I actually tried this tablet out for a week and took it back. It just didn't have enough power for Logos. Scrolling with the pen or a finger was very slow. Great form factor, though. If Lenovo comes out with the same tablet with upgraded Atom specs, it could be worth considering.
Hi Mr. Anderson (Bill).
I look forward to your encouraging cheery posts (seriously). Thanks for the great tip. My wife and my wallet thank you.
Please remind us again what you are using well or looking forward to switching to...thanks.
Just got the new Asus Vivo Note 8 and the stylus is AMAZING. I've been through some tablets and nothing has come so close to the experience on the Surface Pro. And this in an 8" form factor.
I'll be selling my Dell Venue 8 on amazon for dirt cheap - comes with case and stylus.
If you care about stylus, do not get the Dell Venue 8 or Lenovo. Asus is the first W8 tab to get it right.
I think I have 15GB free because they put the recovery partition on an included 8GB SD card. Another nice touch.
Did you retire your Surface Pro? I just got one.
Here are some of my thoughts after getting the Dell Venue 8 Pro two weeks ago:
All in all, I have had a very positive experience with the Venue 8 Pro, and it's mind boggling that this little thing can be so powerful with a full version of Logos running on it.
Brian, That was a well thought out, feature rich review! Thanks for sharing your experience and especially the tips for add-ons.
Excellent, Brian. Happy it is working well for you. Many people will be glad to hear this.
