What's Up Logos???

As we are currently seeing in this thread:

https://www.logos.com/product/37458/the-baptism-of-the-holy-spirit

The community pricing has gotten down to the lowest digit, but lately logos has failed to extend the graph.(as I have seen them do before) I mean a dollar a two isn't the end of the world, but it does seem to dampen the spirit of community pricing.

As it has lately in two other ones (if you remember):

https://www.logos.com/product/36449/selected-works-of-r-a-torrey

https://www.logos.com/product/36492/the-tongue-of-fire-the-true-power-of-Christianity

Maybe they could have gone lower, but we will never know.

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Comments

Bruce Dunning

Matthew, I have had the same observation. You are right that it is demotivating not to see a lower option. It would make sense to me that there is always at least one bidding unit below the current bid number.

Simon’s Brother

but it does seem to dampen the spirit of community pricing.

Maybe they could have gone lower, but we will never know.

Agreed.

Rosie Perera

As we are currently seeing in this thread:

https://www.logos.com/product/37458/the-baptism-of-the-holy-spirit

The community pricing has gotten down to the lowest digit, but lately logos has failed to extend the graph.(as I have seen them do before) I mean a dollar a two isn't the end of the world, but it does seem to dampen the spirit of community pricing.

Mathew, this happened over a weekend, and Logos is not open on weekends. Also, Today is Veterans Day, a public holiday in the U.S. So they would probably not be open today either. These charts are adjusted manually, when they are adjusted. So someone would have to notice it tomorrow or in the next few days before bidding closes in order for any changes to be made.

In the future, whenever you see a CP chart that needs to be extended at the low end of the scale, you can raise the alert to someone at Logos by emailing LogosFeedback@Logos.com. That email address goes to Customer Service, and they'd be able to get someone on it ASAP. They are not always reading every post on the General forum, so they might not see this thread. But the emails they do read, each and every one.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542066#Comment_542066

They are open today...I had to make a call to CS. You have a few minutes to get through.

Wild Eagle

As we are currently seeing in this thread:

https://www.logos.com/product/37458/the-baptism-of-the-holy-spirit

The community pricing has gotten down to the lowest digit, but lately logos has failed to extend the graph.(as I have seen them do before) I mean a dollar a two isn't the end of the world, but it does seem to dampen the spirit of community pricing.

As it has lately in two other ones (if you remember):

Here is the link to R A Torrey:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/77309.aspx

If we would have lower digits, much more people could add their bids for the lower price and we would get a better deal

Mathew Haferkamp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542075#Comment_542075

Thanks for all the replies, maybe someone at logos will notice.

Mathew Haferkamp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542066#Comment_542066

Thanks Rosie, I forwarded the thread to that email address.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542109#Comment_542109

Logos always monopolize how high is their target price..

In reality we don't really know how much is their target price & they can always move the price higher to their liking if there are many bids ...

Community pricing is fishy

Mike Tourangeau

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542115#Comment_542115

Logos always monopolize how high is their target price..

In reality we don't really know how much is their target price & they can always move the price higher to their liking if there are many bids ...

Community pricing is fishy

I guess this is possible, but Logos has proven themselves to be an honorable and ethical company. I don't think community pricing is "fishy" It's a wonderful way of getting cheap books!

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542132#Comment_542132

I don't think community pricing is "fishy" It's a wonderful way of getting cheap books!

Agreed.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542133#Comment_542133

Agreed. I don't think there is anything fishy. Rosie raised some fair points as to why this might not have happened in these cases.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542141#Comment_542141

Also, I would point out that on a number of occasions in the past, at our request (or because they noticed on their own), they have adjusted the scale to allow some lower bids. I really don't think there's some nefarious will on the part of Logos to not be fair. I think they simply have too much on their plate, and sometimes things like this slip through the cracks.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542145#Comment_542145

I believe that you would need 150% @ $3 for the needle to move to $2. Here is my math (counting the magic number @ $300):

100 x $3 = $300
150 x $2 = $300

It doesn't matter what the magic number is, the formula is the same. Logos perhaps could and should put a lower price point, but getting an additional 25% bidders might be really tough. In any case, there isn't anything "fishy."

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542178#Comment_542178

I believe that you would need 150% @ $3 for the needle to move to $2. Here is my math (counting the magic number @ $300):

100 x $3 = $300

150 x $2 = $300

It doesn't matter what the magic number is, the formula is the same. Logos perhaps could and should put a lower price point, but getting an additional 25% bidders might be really tough. In any case, there isn't anything "fishy."

I dont agree with your formula. You forgot that many people like me in this case don't place their bid on $3, but would place their bid on $2 if Logos would move. That's why you never see a needle in 150% before it moves. Usually 110-120% is the max

EDIT: I don't think anything is fishy here. When Logos places CP's it places the minimum to insure that it would go through CP. But later, when it is realistic that it can go lower, they just are not aware of it being busy at other stuff.

Mathew Haferkamp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542211#Comment_542211

Good one Wild Eagle I am with you on that explanation. It is hard to dispute observation!!!

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542218#Comment_542218

My question is: why isn't the process automated? after all, with more and more CP titles coming out, manual control over the program would definitely cost more.

Kent Hendricks

The ranges have been updated for the Community Pricing products over 100% this week. We'll try to keep a closer eye on this in the future; we're discussing some internal processes to make this more automated.

Kent Hendricks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542115#Comment_542115

Logos always monopolize how high is their target price..

In reality we don't really know how much is their target price & they can always move the price higher to their liking if there are many bids ...

Community pricing is fishy

Mike, when we post a new product on Community Pricing, we don't set a price, but we do set the ranges based on our best guess on where we think the price will end up—usually based on past experience with similar products. If the graph moves one way or the other, we try to quickly adjust. We don't manipulate the price. It's not even technically possible for us to do so (as far as I know). The prices you see are the real prices that people are bidding.

There are a few products, however, where we know a low price won't get it over. Bob has written about this elsewhere:

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542224#Comment_542224

English Bible Collection (27 vols.) has progressed in the 1½ years I've followed it, although slowly. I'm in at $80 with 2 accounts, (my own account and an extra account I created for friends but which has not been used at all and will be for my mom when she retires, if not for anyone else).

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542211#Comment_542211

I dont agree with your formula. You forgot that many people like me in this case don't place their bid on $3, but would place their bid on $2 if Logos would move. That's why you never see a needle in 150% before it moves. Usually 110-120% is the max

I don't think there is anything wrong with my formula, but you have misunderstood me. My point is only that you would have to have 150% of the bidders required at the $3 price point to move the needle to the $2 price point. I understand that there might be some bidders willing to bid $2, but not $3... and I agree it would be good for Logos to add additional price points... But 125% bidders at $3 does not equal the $2 price point. When the total number of $2 bidders is added to the total of $3 (and higher) bidders, it must equal 150% of the $3 bidders required.

After looking at this resource a bit more, I would guess that the "magic number" is actually smaller than most, and the 25% of new bidders needed might be more "doable." With my simple math above, for example, an extra 25% would be 25 bidders. Multiply that by 10 and you are looking at needing 250 new bidders; Multiply it by 100 and you need 2500 new bidders. 25 is likely. 2500 is not. My guess is that this resource falls somewhere in-between those numbers, but that is pure speculation on my part.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542221#Comment_542221

we're discussing some internal processes to make this more automated.

That is great news.

Paul-C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542406#Comment_542406

It's getting close to $2!

KJ Niblett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542232#Comment_542232

How many Logos accounts do you have Unix?

Your main account

This one you mention which will be for your mum

Plus haven't you got some you buy things for friends too?

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542248#Comment_542248

I don't think there is anything wrong with my formula, but you have misunderstood me. My point is only that you would have to have 150% of the bidders required at the $3 price point to move the needle to the $2 price point. I understand that there might be some bidders willing to bid $2, but not $3... and I agree it would be good for Logos to add additional price points... But 125% bidders at $3 does not equal the $2 price point. When the total number of $2 bidders is added to the total of $3 (and higher) bidders, it must equal 150% of the $3 bidders required.

After looking at this resource a bit more, I would guess that the "magic number" is actually smaller than most, and the 25% of new bidders needed might be more "doable." With my simple math above, for example, an extra 25% would be 25 bidders. Multiply that by 10 and you are looking at needing 250 new bidders; Multiply it by 100 and you need 2500 new bidders. 25 is likely. 2500 is not. My guess is that this resource falls somewhere in-between those numbers, but that is pure speculation on my part.

There is nothing wrong with your formula, and I agree with you its mathematically right (if no one bids at $2). My point was that in real CP world, a lot of people are biding at lower prices, especially those who are half-willing to buy this resource, because of that the CP never reaches to 150% but usually 110-120% max. The reason why in this case we have 140% because there was not enough time frame for $2 bidders to place their bid.

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/542115#Comment_542115

FWIW, even with digital there are 'per transaction' costs. (Our credit card processor, for examples, charges a percentage of the transaction, plus a fixed fee per transaction.)

So while the top-line revenue for 1 x $1,000 and 1,000 x $1 is the same, with a $0.15 per-transaction credit card processing fee (I'm guessing, but think I'm close), the first returns

1 x $1000 * 0.98 (a 2% credit card percentage) = $980 - ( 1 x $0.15 ) = $979.85

and the second

1000 * $1 * 0.98 = $980 - ( 1000 * $0.15 ) = $830.

Our system presently doesn't account for this; it's usually trivial, except when the book gets down to the $1 range, which it's significant per unit.

(Numbers are all useful proxies, not exact. Some cards charge more -- I think we've had as high as a $0.45 minimum per transaction.)

I'm not saying we don't make money on CP -- we do. (And we collect the delta above the line, which is always something, since there are fixed dollar increments along the horizontal axis, and the price moves in decimals as orders come in.) And the whole system is based on a "Production Cost" that's just an estimate, anyway. Sometimes we get the book done for less, and make more, and sometimes it's harder and costs us more. Some have been losses.

But I'm just pointing out that 'the game isn't rigged', even if some of the variables are unknown at the start.