I'm so mad I could Spicq!!
It is near about a crime that this work is still festering in PrePub limbo. It should have been in our libraries a year ago or longer...that includes YOUR library. If you haven't placed your order for this title yet, you may still have time before the 
finds you. Bid on it, my people.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
Comments
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No, I'm not citing a Logos translation. Put the original up, and I'll bid on it.
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Depends on the translator; not the publisher. Unless citing is all that's wanted.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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We're not all Joe Btfspiks.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Dean053 said:
No, I'm not citing a Logos translation. Put the original up, and I'll bid on it.
I see your point...wait! I know what we need...an interlinear version that has both French and English! Wow, what an amazing idea!
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Dean053 said:
No, I'm not citing a Logos translation. Put the original up, and I'll bid on it.
Okay, now for a more serious response. I understand having that sentiment (at least to some degree) with regard to a Bible version such as Lexham or a reference resource like FSB, where it is likely--actually, practically a certainty--that anyone who doesn't have or use Logos would probably be unfamiliar with it. But the reality is that many resources that get quoted exist in rare and hard-to-find media. That doesn't delegitimize the source, though. The whole point of this resource is to make it available to English speakers. Quoting French in an otherwise English document will be helpful and constructive for probably less than 1% of the readership. If the translation is credible, then it would simply be THE means for English speakers to engage the text, or rather the ideas in Spicq's French text. Anyone who doesn't read French but wants to comprehend Spicq's contributions and thoughts would simply have to download the free Logos engine to engage the text. If that causes more people to become familiar with Logos, so much the better.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Dean053 said:
No, I'm not citing a Logos translation. Put the original up, and I'll bid on it.
Having a translation is better than having nothing. It is also just a guess but I doubt the majority of Logos users know French.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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David Paul said:
I see your point...wait! I know what we need...an interlinear version that has both French and English! Wow, what an amazing idea!
Actually I think they should offer both--like they do with some of the German works in the offering.
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Bruce Dunning said:
Having a translation is better than having nothing. It is also just a guess but I doubt the majority of Logos users know French.
It is better than nothing, but if it can't be cited, then it isn't worth the price tag to me. It would leave me unable to even verify a translation. If I just want to read it, I can get a copy from the library. I would have thought with Logos' apparent attempts to move towards European markets that a French version would have been at least separately on offer.
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Will I've put myself down for a copy - so I've done my bit to get it here earlier!
Shalom Kevin
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Dean053 said:
It is better than nothing, but if it can't be cited, then it isn't worth the price tag to me. It would leave me unable to even verify a translation. If I just want to read it, I can get a copy from the library.
Huh? Please excuse, but I absolutely don't get your argument. Why wouldn't you be able to cite Spicq? People cite the Early Church Fathers, Aquinas, Luther and Calvin from translations instead from Greek, Latin and (in Calvin's case) French, the same with Bonhoeffer and Barth and Luther again (instead as from German).
The difference between you citing from L'épître aux Hébreux and from a "Letter to the Hebrews" edition is that you either paraphrase/translate yourself or copy untranslated French, then give a 1950s edition and a page and the reader has to trust you, or you can give a legible citation. But both will be valid citations.
If your local library carries a French edition you can read, then you can use this same copy to verify the translation, if you think you need to. But why? I'm a native speaker of German, but I don't feel the need to constantly proof-read the Logos edition of Bonhoeffer's works.
Actually, the point of a translation (and why I'm in on this prePub) is not being able to cite, but being able to read the commentary. If the translation was out there, future commentators on Hebrews would probably feel obliged to 'interact' with Spicq - and able to do so.
Logos publishing the French version of Spicq's commentary (or better: all of his works) would surely be a desirable thing for all those out there able to read French. However, this is a totally different thing to the translation and totally independent of it. I tend to think that Logos would probably wish to make a bilingual edition, but Spicq's works are still under copyright and thus they would need to deal with an obscure French publisher. I believe that more than 90% of Logos users wouldn't want to pay more for a bilingual edition.
(OT: in case of Adolf Schlatter's "Faith in the New Testament" they plan for bilingual, but the German text is PD. Bid on it!)
Even if multi-language works are available: Since nearly all of my Logos resources are in English, I tend to search in English and work in the English UI. Thus for me, the English language version of any work is more valuable in Logos that the German language edition - I've yet to buy the German edition of the CA. So I would assume that even those people able to read Spicq in the original will be pleased to have a translation that comes up in searches and that they can work directly with.
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
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The problem here is Logos is translating it; we don't know who is translating it yet, and it seems far from clear to me whether the Logos edition will be considered quotable in academic literature. Thus as much as I'd like to see this important work in Logos, I'm not going to jump on this. And you really think they got the rights to translate it without dealing with the 'obscure French publisher'? This is an important work that I'm going to need to cite; if that doesn't apply to you, go for it, but it applies to me, and as such the Logos edition is not worth paying out on for me.
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Dean053 said:
This is an important work that I'm going to need to cite; if that doesn't apply to you, go for it, but it applies to me, and as such the Logos edition is not worth paying out on for me.
It sounds like you have a need. What are you going to do? Cite in French? Make your own translation? I'm curious.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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French? ... I thought he was Hispanic.David Paul said:an interlinear version that has both French and English!
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I suspect Dean has his foot lodged and best just leave it lodged.
In Logos, you can bid, ship and read for 30 days (just to make absolutely sure) with no risk. I'd hate to be the author that has to stick in one language because of 'citing'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Is this a perceved or real restriction made by an academic institution on citing from pruely electronic sources?
I can't think they really mean such formal sources such as thouse made available via Logos.
Shalom Kevin
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At my academic institution, I've quoted a number of the men already mentioned (Bonhoffer, Calvin, etc) in English without problem. Granted none of the works were directly translated by Logos as far as I know, but the fact its in Logos (or any bible software) would likely be in my favor in my program of study at my institution.
Further, even if (and I doubt it would be) the translation is deemed unsuitable, it likely won't be deemed so for a number of years - IE my paper would be a distant memory.
Perhaps if you are from france, and citing an english translation in a french document - then things would be different. But for an American, or other native English speaker, citing an English translation - IE the ONLY English translation I'm aware of - where is the problem?L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
At my academic institution, I've quoted a number of the men already mentioned (Bonhoffer, Calvin, etc) in English without problem. Granted none of the works were directly translated by Logos as far as I know, but the fact its in Logos (or any bible software) would likely be in my favor in my program of study at my institution.
Further, even if (and I doubt it would be) the translation is deemed unsuitable, it likely won't be deemed so for a number of years - IE my paper would be a distant memory.
Perhaps if you are from france, and citing an english translation in a french document - then things would be different. But for an American, or other native English speaker, citing an English translation - IE the ONLY English translation I'm aware of - where is the problem?As they say: "If you build it, they will come." Or, if you translate it (assuming you're the only translation), they will use it. I suggest that Logos release the translation in paper as well—perhaps through Hendrickson—which would increase the exposure of the work beyond Logos users.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Yep! I want the original. I don't want to have to deal with someone's translation if I can have the original. As I said once, the originals are out of print. Maybe they are too outdated?
I dropped my bid for the vols after waiting about a year. Bids were piling up so $40 was saved. Just bought 8 books this week in printed editions too. All good stuff. Confession: I am impatient.
Ergatees
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Todd Phillips said:Dean053 said:
This is an important work that I'm going to need to cite; if that doesn't apply to you, go for it, but it applies to me, and as such the Logos edition is not worth paying out on for me.
It sounds like you have a need. What are you going to do? Cite in French? Make your own translation? I'm curious.
My practice is to translate ancient languages (or use a published translation) and to leave modern ones untranslated unless there is a published English translation.
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Kevin A Lewis said:
Is this a perceved or real restriction made by an academic institution on citing from pruely electronic sources?
I can't think they really mean such formal sources such as thouse made available via Logos.
Shalom Kevin
My impression is that this is still a shady area. I don't think anyone would raise an eyebrow at some of the Logos works published by recognized scholars. But we don't even know who is going to translate this. It would be useful to have an English translation, and if money wasn't an issue I'd be in on this. But in this case I can purchase a print book that I can both read and cite, so the print edition makes better sense. Now if Logos offered the French edition, it would be different.
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Dean053 said:
The problem here is Logos is translating it; we don't know who is translating it yet, and it seems far from clear to me whether the Logos edition will be considered quotable in academic literature. Thus as much as I'd like to see this important work in Logos, I'm not going to jump on this. And you really think they got the rights to translate it without dealing with the 'obscure French publisher'? This is an important work that I'm going to need to cite; if that doesn't apply to you, go for it, but it applies to me, and as such the Logos edition is not worth paying out on for me.
If you're really going to need to cite it (say in a PhD thesis) rather soon, then go for a paper book - this may be more complicated than simply going to the next bookstore and grab it; Logos' Cliff Kvidahl writes it took him ten years to secure a copy. Currently there seems to be exactly one piece of vol. 2 on sale in Europe for some $60 plus shipping (don't let offers for Spicq's ~80 pages translation of Hebrews distract you). But a good seminary library should have it or be able to get it via inter-library loan.
This is because http://www.logos.com/product/17734/the-epistle-to-the-hebrews still is not "under development" and even if, it could take years. But other than that: I don't think the fact that Logos (or Lexham) produces the translation makes this any less "quotable in academic literature". Why?
Regarding dealing with the publisher: Normally, translation rights should be much easier to acquire than electronic publishing rights in the same language, however, after some clicks it may be that this company (Librairie Lecoffre / Gabalda) is no longer in business. But I can imagine that some theological publisher already secured the translation rights years ago, didn't undertake the effort and just sold this right to Logos. Or: will sell, when the project starts.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Dean053
Thanks for your comments and concerns. I share most—is not all—of your concerns. As the one who spearheaded this, let me try to answer what I can.
1. Translator: We will do our best to get a recognized scholar in the field of NT studies, but this is not an easy process. Translation costs are not cheap. The going rate is anywhere from $6 up per word. With Spicq, you have no less than 4 languages: French, German, Hebrew, and Greek (assuming we translate the Greek; which I would rather not). If I had my way, I would love to get James Ernest to do the translation. He is the one responsible for Spicq's Lexicon, so he is familiar with Spicq's style. At the end of the day, we have to work within the our means. But rest assured we will get the best translator we possibly can.
2. French Edition: Because this work is still protected by copyright, we thought it best to get an English translation licensed at this time. With the addition of new foreign language markets, it may be a good idea revisit this and see what we can do. In regards to the German works we have listed, it is easy to put the original German works on PrePub because they are no longer under copyright.
I have a deep interest in this project! I have been trying for years to get an English translation done of this very influential work. So rest assured that I will do whatever I can to make this project a success for Logos and also respected in the eyes of academia.
Again, I thank you Dean053 for your same passion for Spicq. Let me know if you have any ideas that would make this an awesome work.
Cliff
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http://www.en.zvab.com/refreshSearchPreferences.do?itemId=233720985Ergatees said:Yep! I want the original. I don't want to have to deal with someone's translation if I can have the original. As I said once, the originals are out of print. Maybe they are too outdated?
I dropped my bid for the vols after waiting about a year. Bids were piling up so $40 was saved. Just bought 8 books this week in printed editions too. All good stuff. Confession: I am impatient.
Ergatees
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Thanks Clifford--It's great to hear that you guys are so passionate about this project--I need Spicq for my dissertation (or at least it would be very useful to reference it), and I'm just not sure how citing Logos would look in that format. Having said that, my attempts at securing a copy have not been very successful so far.
$6 per word? Ouch. I need to get into the translation business!
N.B.--you were on the money with regard to the publishing company--I'm not appreciating how complex these things can get!
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George Somsel said:
http://www.en.zvab.com/refreshSearchPreferences.do?itemId=233720985Ergatees said:Yep! I want the original. I don't want to have to deal with someone's translation if I can have the original. As I said once, the originals are out of print. Maybe they are too outdated?
I dropped my bid for the vols after waiting about a year. Bids were piling up so $40 was saved. Just bought 8 books this week in printed editions too. All good stuff. Confession: I am impatient.
Ergatees
George, your search page is invalid, but I believe you mean this, which I already referred 8but not linked) to above:
(I found it via eurobuch.de, a meta search engine that searches all of the usual places for books. It has two or three hits, but for the same piece which carries a stamp from a monastery's library)
Have joy in the Lord!
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Dean053 said:
Thanks Clifford--It's great to hear that you guys are so passionate about this project--I need Spicq for my dissertation (or at least it would be very useful to reference it), and I'm just not sure how citing Logos would look in that format. Having said that, my attempts at securing a copy have not been very successful so far.
$6 per word? Ouch. I need to get into the translation business!
N.B.--you were on the money with regard to the publishing company--I'm not appreciating how complex these things can get!
Dean,
What is your dissertation on, if I may ask? Also, considering how long these projects take and the size of Spicq, it may not be finished before you finish your dissertation.
Cliff
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NB.Mick said:George Somsel said:
http://www.en.zvab.com/refreshSearchPreferences.do?itemId=233720985Ergatees said:Yep! I want the original. I don't want to have to deal with someone's translation if I can have the original. As I said once, the originals are out of print. Maybe they are too outdated?
I dropped my bid for the vols after waiting about a year. Bids were piling up so $40 was saved. Just bought 8 books this week in printed editions too. All good stuff. Confession: I am impatient.
Ergatees
George, your search page is invalid, but I believe you mean this, which I already referred 8but not linked) to above:
(I found it via eurobuch.de, a meta search engine that searches all of the usual places for books. It has two or three hits, but for the same piece which carries a stamp from a monastery's library)
Another thing to note: the pages they are printed on are brittle and falling apart due to the acid paper it was printed on. Further, the pages in mine were not cut, so I had to very carefully tear apart the pages in order to read the pages.
It is a thing of beauty really.
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NB.Mick said:George Somsel said:
http://www.en.zvab.com/refreshSearchPreferences.do?itemId=233720985Ergatees said:Yep! I want the original. I don't want to have to deal with someone's translation if I can have the original. As I said once, the originals are out of print. Maybe they are too outdated?
I dropped my bid for the vols after waiting about a year. Bids were piling up so $40 was saved. Just bought 8 books this week in printed editions too. All good stuff. Confession: I am impatient.
Ergatees
George, your search page is invalid, but I believe you mean this, which I already referred 8but not linked) to above:
(I found it via eurobuch.de, a meta search engine that searches all of the usual places for books. It has two or three hits, but for the same piece which carries a stamp from a monastery's library)
Why is it not valid? It appears valid to me.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Clifford Kvidahl said:
Dean053
Thanks for your comments and concerns. I share most—is not all—of your concerns. As the one who spearheaded this, let me try to answer what I can.
1. Translator: We will do our best to get a recognized scholar in the field of NT studies, but this is not an easy process. Translation costs are not cheap. The going rate is anywhere from $6 up per word. With Spicq, you have no less than 4 languages: French, German, Hebrew, and Greek (assuming we translate the Greek; which I would rather not). If I had my way, I would love to get James Ernest to do the translation. He is the one responsible for Spicq's Lexicon, so he is familiar with Spicq's style. At the end of the day, we have to work within the our means. But rest assured we will get the best translator we possibly can.
2. French Edition: Because this work is still protected by copyright, we thought it best to get an English translation licensed at this time. With the addition of new foreign language markets, it may be a good idea revisit this and see what we can do. In regards to the German works we have listed, it is easy to put the original German works on PrePub because they are no longer under copyright.
I have a deep interest in this project! I have been trying for years to get an English translation done of this very influential work. So rest assured that I will do whatever I can to make this project a success for Logos and also respected in the eyes of academia.
Again, I thank you Dean053 for your same passion for Spicq. Let me know if you have any ideas that would make this an awesome work.
Cliff
Very insightful post. I had no idea that translation would cost $6 and up per word.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I'm starting to wonder if David is real thrilled with the direction of this post.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
I'm starting to wonder if David is real thrilled with the direction of this post.
Why wouldn't he be? This thread is sure to bring more attention to the pre-pub and make it more likely to be put over the top. I thought this was an interesting thread.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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George Somsel said:NB.Mick said:George Somsel said:
http://www.en.zvab.com/refreshSearchPreferences.do?itemId=233720985Ergatees said:Yep! I want the original. I don't want to have to deal with someone's translation if I can have the original. As I said once, the originals are out of print. Maybe they are too outdated?
I dropped my bid for the vols after waiting about a year. Bids were piling up so $40 was saved. Just bought 8 books this week in printed editions too. All good stuff. Confession: I am impatient.
Ergatees
George, your search page is invalid, but I believe you mean this, which I already referred 8but not linked) to above:
(I found it via eurobuch.de, a meta search engine that searches all of the usual places for books. It has two or three hits, but for the same piece which carries a stamp from a monastery's library)
Why is it not valid? It appears valid to me.
hm. here it looks like this:
Have joy in the Lord!
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this is typical for French works printed after WW2.
i used to search used bookstores in France and bought several volumes like you describe.
i am surprised by all the comments generated on this. The interest is good.
but i am thinking that maybe Spicq's work has been taken up by later writers and maybe there is no need to get his volume.
this is a question.
ergatees (iPad)
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george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Ergatees said:
this is typical for French works printed after WW2.
i used to search used bookstores in France and bought several volumes like you describe.
i am surprised by all the comments generated on this. The interest is good.
but i am thinking that maybe Spicq's work has been taken up by later writers and maybe there is no need to get his volume.
this is a question.
ergatees (iPad)
In some ways, yes, Spicq's work has been taken up. This is true of most works, they begin to live on in others. But there are some sections in the introduction that have not been taken up. His chapter on the Philonic background and the similarities between Hebrews and the Gospel of John are quite innovative (for his time). While the Philonic material has been shown to be unhelpful, the comparison between John and Hebrews is interesting.
While Spicq is dated, it still has value. Look at the many Hebrews commentaries published since 1953 and you will see much interaction with his work.
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Denise said:
I'm starting to wonder if David is real thrilled with the direction of this post.
Is there a direction to this post? The bar looks like it hasn't moved a pixel. [:(] Since feigned outrage hasn't worked, maybe I should try feigned flattery?
Come on, all you fabulously attractive and spectacularly intelligent Logos users! Just think how much more attractive you will be when your intelligence level blows through the roof after reading this first of its kind English translation! Why I bet your significant other will be so excited that you will get a big, wet Spicq on the cheek!
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Clifford Kvidahl said:Ergatees said:
this is typical for French works printed after WW2.
i used to search used bookstores in France and bought several volumes like you describe.
i am surprised by all the comments generated on this. The interest is good.
but i am thinking that maybe Spicq's work has been taken up by later writers and maybe there is no need to get his volume.
this is a question.
ergatees (iPad)
In some ways, yes, Spicq's work has been taken up. This is true of most works, they begin to live on in others. But there are some sections in the introduction that have not been taken up. His chapter on the Philonic background and the similarities between Hebrews and the Gospel of John are quite innovative (for his time). While the Philonic material has been shown to be unhelpful, the comparison between John and Hebrews is interesting.
While Spicq is dated, it still has value. Look at the many Hebrews commentaries published since 1953 and you will see much interaction with his work.
And it's always go back to that which they took up and look at it for ourselves.
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David Paul said:
The bar looks like it hasn't moved a pixel.
I signed up for it because of your original post.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super.Tramp said:David Paul said:
The bar looks like it hasn't moved a pixel.
I signed up for it because of your original post.
Me too. I had cancelled, but I re-ordered.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Super.Tramp said:
I signed up for it because of your original post.
Todd Phillips said:Me too. I had cancelled, but I re-ordered.
Good to hear! Neither of you must go outside the camp. [;)]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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My feet are firmly planted in the camp. We just need a few more of them.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I believe as the only English translation, Logos could have great success selling this both as a Logos ebook and in a paper book format. I suspect the paper copy, assuming it is well done, and it will be, would find its way into many seminary libraries and become an often cited reference.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Clifford Kvidahl said:
Dean,
What is your dissertation on, if I may ask? Also, considering how long these projects take and the size of Spicq, it may not be finished before you finish your dissertation.
Cliff
Good point--I might have to track down the French version in any case.
The dissertation seeks to reconstruct the development of early Johannine theology and traditions in the early church period. One particular section of the paper will examine traditions which seem to have linked the Evangelist and his circle (cf. Cullmann) with Syria, prior to the residence in Asia Minor. These seem to provide some independent verification to the suggestions of Cullmann, Sanday, and Danielou that there was a transitional stage of the Johannine theology centered in Syria, responsible for producing such works as the Odes of Solomon. But Hebrews also seems to represent a similar Johannine-type oral catechesis; the value of Spicq for me is that he is specifically said to have argued that Hebrews represents a Johannine catechesis (as indeed Cullmann argued also), and I suspect his work might throw some further light on my own.
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Michael Childs said:
I believe as the only English translation, Logos could have great success selling this both as a Logos ebook and in a paper book format. I suspect the paper copy, assuming it is well done, and it will be, would find its way into many seminary libraries and become an often cited reference.
Yes, maybe I'm worrying too much and should just cite the Logos edition (assuming it's produced in time).
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By the way, I like your title for this thread.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
George Somsel said:
NB.Mick said:
hm. here it looks like this: (...)
Mine looks like this.
(...)
I figured, that's why I gave an alternative link. However, it remains that one will get half of Spicq for roughly double the price of the Logos PrePub - and this is one piece. If someone needs it for a dissertation, that's probably still the way to go - but I do hope the Logos project gets traction (maybe one more post in the general blog to push it over the imaginary line).
Have joy in the Lord!
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Dean053 said:
No, I'm not citing a Logos translation. Put the original up, and I'll bid on it.
Why would it matter? I have friends that have worked on term papers that have cited translated works and sometimes they even do their own translation and just include that in the footnotes. I don't think Spic being a "Logos translation" has anything to do with how citing works or how "scholar" the work is. And for the record, my friends's papers don't get rejected just because they cited a work and did their own translation. Just thought I'd mention that in case that's the only reason that's holding you back from placing your pre-pub order.
Blessings!
DAL
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DAL said:Dean053 said:
No, I'm not citing a Logos translation. Put the original up, and I'll bid on it.
Why would it matter? I have friends that have worked on term papers that have cited translated works and sometimes they even do their own translation and just include that in the footnotes. I don't think Spic being a "Logos translation" has anything to do with how citing works or how "scholar" the work is. And for the record, my friends's papers don't get rejected just because they cited a work and did their own translation. Just thought I'd mention that in case that's the only reason that's holding you back from placing your pre-pub order.
Blessings!
DAL
Not everyone speaks another language fluently enough to gain the insight offered in an academic work (I am an odd and somewhat hopeless case, for while i can usually get the rough meaning of something reading french, spoken i am almost hopeless ), now most every translation leaves something to be desired. But I have little doubt that the translators Logos will find can do a wonderful job, and hopefully where there is ambiguity in the translation their notes can suggest the other options. The scholars Logos finds might be equal to some of the finest ones in the best schools.
-Dan
PS:Yes DAL I realize i quoted you and am basically just adding to your argument but yours was the last link int he chain dealing with the idea of translation.
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I doubt one can ever escape 'translations' when the argument is tight. One always has to either directly quote the original, identify the translation, or quite often 'author's translation'.
Spicq would be one where the original is unavoidable.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dan Francis said:
PS:Yes DAL I realize i quoted you and am basically just adding to your argument but yours was the last link int he chain dealing with the idea of translation.
It's ok Dan, I don't mind. Really, no hard feelings [:P]
As far as translation goes, I've done that because I Spicq Spanish. I very often times find myself quoting English works, so there's a note on the foot notes stating such is the case. As far as French goes, I'd rather quote a Logos translation than not quote Spicq at all; since I only know a little bit of French -- here it is: Oui, ma chérie, Pepe Le pew? Parla François? Hehehe...I know, I know François is a name, but I always joke when using it since it's kind of similar to "Français..." except they're pronounced differently [:P] [8-|]
DAL
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