Personal Books in PDF, MOBI or EPUB

It seems to me that DOCX is easily in no higher than fourth place world wide for digital books. PDF, MOBI and EPUB seem to be the clear winners for ebooks in front of DOCX. Making everyone convert to a lesser functioned ebook format before going into Logos doesn't seem to make good long-term sense.

Is Logos working to include these formats for Personal Books?

I've gone "all-in" with Logos just recently in the last 3 months although I first tried it more than 8 years ago in seminary. I now absolutely love it. The UI has been greatly improved. The personal books area is the one where I feel it most needs to be brought up to current day standards...

- Tim

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Unix

I've never found cheap real PDF creating.

JT (alabama24)

It seems to me that DOCX is easily in no higher than fourth place world wide for digital books. PDF, MOBI and EPUB seem to be the clear winners for ebooks in front of DOCX. Making everyone convert to a lesser functioned ebook format before going into Logos doesn't seem to make good long-term sense.

For clarification: ".docx" isn't an ebook format... and the tool is called "personal books" for a reason. Logos doesn't intend for you to purchase eBooks in other formats to include in your library... they want you to purchase the books from them. The tool is designed for you to take YOUR content (hence "personal") and create an eBook which is compatible with your Logos digital library. This feature is a "loss leader" in a way for the company. They don't make money by providing this service... they certainly wouldn't want to make it very easy to purchase books elsewhere and bring them into your library.

Set aside the legal issue of converting a book from another format (i.e. Kindle)... The publisher's and other retailers certainly don't want you to be able to easily convert the files... and the technical challenges of converting PDF's is steep. Many PDF's are nothing more than a photograph... there isn't any "selectable" text.

William Gabriel

Aside from what alabama has mentioned, there would be great difficulty in tagging those other formats. The benefit of using docx is that you have a tool to add the necessary tagging to really make your PBs work well in your library.

http://wiki.logos.com/Personal_Books

Tim Kimberley

alabama24,

I definitely appreciate your quick response. I disagree that personal books should be seen as a loss leader. I work in a similar field and have found out that it isn't a loss for people to consider you the center of their world. Let personal books only be searched at an archaic level. Buy it from logos and it will be all linked up and tagged up. I really want logos to be the center of my Christian reading world. The inability of importing my own epubs and mobi books forces me to live in dual worlds (Logos & Kindle). I also have to remember...was that book one I have in kindle or is it in the Logos world?

I don't like the Kindle reader. I think the Logos experience is far superior. I just purchased an epub book today from a reputable ministry, I really wanted to read the book and search it for future blog posts and possible sermons...the title wasn't available through Logos.

I will probably spend around $3,000 in resources from logos over the next year or so and I am not trying to stab logos in the back. It's frustrating if Logos thinks the personal resources is not a viable area. There's a reason why spotify and itunes let you import your own music. 2 reasons. 1.) They search your stuff and then they know what you like. They then sell you much more of what you like because they've seen all your personal collection. It ends up exponentially increasing sales. 2.) They know you will grow accustomed to being in a certain ecosystem. If you spend hours reading your own personal collection of hundreds of books in the Logos ecosystem you'll stay in that ecosystem and convenience will prevail and you will buy more and more over time from their ecosystem.

Anyway, my purpose isn't to rant. As Executive Director of a ministry I simply want to share my experience and then say as user I think Logos will make more money from me in the long-term if they let me import and even store in the cloud my personal epub books.

Digital Right concerns aren't a viable long-term concern since all you need to do is have the person agree to terms/conditions when they are uploading letting you know they have legally obtained the ebooks.

Rosie Perera

.docx is a SOURCE FILE format. I'd be willing to bet that the people creating .EPUB and .MOBI files from scratch have to start in a word processor too, very likely Word. That's usually where PDF files come from too (except when they are scanned).

I think you are trying to compare apples with oranges. Here's a graphic to make it clearer:

.DOCX --> LOGOS4

.DOCX --> EPUB

.DOCX --> MOBI

.DOCX --> PDF

Logos reads LOGOS4 files,not DOCX files. The personal book compiler (which is built in to Logos) compiles DOCX files into LOGOS4 format for Logos to read.

Logos has chosen to have a proprietary ebook format instead of using the common EPUB, MOBI or PDF formats because they can do much more with it than they'd be able to do otherwise.

They are not open to changing this. Kindle books use DRM (digital rights management) so they aren't easily converted to other formats, and even if they could be hacked into some other format, this would generally be illegal (except with public domain books).

JT (alabama24)

I definitely appreciate your quick response. I disagree that personal books should be seen as a loss leader.

If you disagree, you don't understand the definition of "loss leader." Your own arguments agree with my position.

Digital Right concerns aren't a viable long-term concern since all you need to do is have the person agree to terms/conditions when they are uploading letting you know they have legally obtained the ebooks.

That doesn't fly. Ever hear of Napster? If Logos were to create a tool which allowed users to break the copyright protection other companies put in place, they would be sued out of business. The legality of converting ebooks from one format to another (by breaking copy protection) may be up in the air, but there is a reason that there aren't any real businesses providing that service for a fee... just as there are no companies providing the ability to break DVD/BLU-RAY copy protection.

JT (alabama24)

Your ministry looks interesting Tim. [:)]

GaoLu

Let's say I buy a beautiful new Lambourgini. It's a fine, fine car and there is so much I can do with it! I can enjoy the lovely, luxury leather smell, and cherish the dunkelblau paint job. I can plant my hindparts solidly in the bucket seats, fasten my seat belt and start the radio. I can turn the key and run the smooth, gliding windshield wipers and from inside, using electricity, I can make windows and doorlocks go up and down marvelously. I can even have a picnic with my (small) family in there, even in the pouring rain. When my neighbors go by they can say "Why, that's a mighty nice car old Cyrus Teeesdiddle has there!"

Now it would be nice to have gas as well for my fine car, but Lambourghini doesn't make or sell gas. I have to get that myself. Buy it, make it, whatever. And do so legally. The car does contain an engine, a marvelous one at that, which ran just fine from the factory. Lamborghini profits not only from the sale of the auto, but from the sale of its many parts -- especially if I drive my car as fast as I really like to. The engine does have the ability to convert gas (from which Lambourgini does not profit) into power for my personal needs which really adds "vroooom" to my car.

So is it a lossleader for Lamborghini to install a gas tank?

Tim Kimberley

I think where the misunderstanding is happening is people assume if you have a epub or mobi format that you got it illegally or ripped it out of Kindle. My example was legally purchasing a book from Ligonier that was sold only in epub and mobi formats and is not included in the complete RC Sproul collection from Logos. I wanted the RC Sproul book to be natively imported into logos for searching with all the native epub links in place.

Additionally, one of my favorite Bible commentators is Dr. Tom Constable. My understanding is he has purposefully decided to wait until he dies for his commentary to be published (he wants to update it every year throughout his lifetime.) With the rise of either self-published works or people like Dr. Constable there will be many epubs that are legitimate Bible Study options that can't be found in kindle and/or logos.

Yes, I agree with others that illegal activity should be stopped (like napster). But including your own personal collection (like itunes) should also be considered. I have written 4 iPhone apps in the app store so I am definitely sensitive to piracy. I think it's wrong, however, to assume someone with an epub came about it the wrong way or is trying in some sinful way to rob logos. I think Logos should be secure in their amazing product and trust people to not abuse their ecosystem...hopefully, people interested in Logos have a certain amount of conviction to do what is right.

Alabama, I'm not sure if you work for Logos, since you have so many posts I'm assuming you represent Logos...if not I'd love to hear from actual Logos staff.

thank you again,
Tim

JT (alabama24)

So is it a lossleader for Lamborghini to install a gas tank?

No. That is the business Lamborghini is in. The sell cars... with gas tanks. Logos doesn't sell software... they sell resources. As part of their business model, they develop the PBB tool. This causes a loss for the company money (they don't make money on it) in the hopes that it will lead customers to continue making purchases on the platform. Hence a "loss leader." [Developing the core engine isn't a loss leader since it is a NECESSARY part of the core business].

Frequently a grocery store in town alternates selling coke & pepsi products at 40% below walmart's price. That is a loss leader. The LOSE money on the sale in an effort to LEAD customers into the store to purchase other products at a higher profit margin.

If you want to go the automotive route... A car dealership in town every few weeks makes a big deal in the newspaper and radio ads about a GREAT DEAL on a car. They make little to no profit on that ONE car, knowing that getting customers onto the lot will drive more sales. Only one person gets the "great deal" (it's never me [:)]), but others drive away with emotionally purchased cars.

Casinos do something similar. They purposefully set machines to to create enough winners to cause more people to waste their money.

Mike Childs

They are not open to changing this. Kindle books use DRM (digital rights management) so they aren't easily converted to other formats, and even if they could be hacked into some other format, this would generally be illegal (except with public domain books).

Are you sure about that? Even for personal use in order to read a copy that you purchased in a different Ereader? I am not convinced that is so, but would like to know if it is so.

Certainly, it would be illegal to share or distribute such material. But I am not sure that it is illegal to buy a book from Kindle and convert it to another format.

But I am not a lawyer, and would like to know for sure.

ASUNDER

I'm not happy with the books I buy from Logos being in a proprietary format.
I didn't know that until I had already made purchases, otherwise I may have had second thoughts about it.

Books that come with the software; fine they can be locked to the program. But not stand alone ebooks!
Just like the car analogy, imagine if Ferrari required you only buy gas from a licensed Ferrari dealer.
Companies like John Deer are losing lawsuits over these kinds of things.

I don't think FaithLife is shady but companies like Amazon definitely are.
They don't put DRM on their ebooks to protect them. And they don't tell you that copyright law allows for one personal backup on any purchased digital goods. No, it's to encourage you to buy the hardware (that was made in China by borderline slaves so they don't starve to death; to further enrich some random egomaniacal super billionaire). That way they've forced you into their sandbox. They can put ads in there and take your personal data and sell it. And collect data about book popularity so they can leverage that data against market trends.

Let's not forget how cringe it is for a digital book to be the same price as a physical one, or anywhere near it. Where the cost to send a packet of text down a wire is zero dollars. But a factory had to manufacture a paper book and then ship it.

I really don't want to have to jailbreak anything. Forcing people into legal grey areas is no good. I want a company who advertised an ebook on their webstore to give me an ebook when I buy it. With things like software the licensing model is fine. But not with content (unless it is a subscription based streamed service). If an ebook is bought it ought to be owned.

DMB

You'll need to convince the publishers and/or authors. Faithlife is a reseller.