Church of Christ Library for Logos Bible Software
Comments
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Thank you Lynden. That is very insightful. It is evident that this post has gone "south" so to speak. The purpose of this thread was to announce the work and continue building up a list of members in churches of Christ who use Logos and would offer to contribute to the work. It has created a large degree of confusion as you can see, since there are several movements that have sprung out of churches of Christ (some liberal, and some anti), yet continue to identify themselves with churches of Christ. A reverse method may be more successful as you suggest here. Thanks again.
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If I understand Daniel correctly, he's attempting to create a library, to which a series of members can purchase and have a reasonable assurance what they're reading is consistent with their faith (or as Daniel says, the New Testament church).
Personally, I think that's great. I'd recommend that for many smaller groups, especially if they can fund a significant portion of the cost that Logos must pay. And I wouldn't be surprised if indeed Logos invited Daniel to do just that. It'd especially be great for groups that having preaching schools, etc. and even better with missionaries being trained individually overseas.
That said, I'd think to be successful, there'd need to be a clue in the name more than 'not liberals or antis'. Or 'not liberals or legalists'.
But ignoring the naming, Daniel's invitation I would hope to be great example for other groups as well.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Super.Tramp said:DAL said:
I think Daniel is having the wrong attitude in trying to put this "Package" together and there might be some speculation on his part as to who is liberal and who is not.
It still begs the question; "Who should pass judgement on the churches of Christ?"
Should Daniel be the one who decides what should go in a Logos package?
Answer to question 1: Christ will judge the churches of Christ, as He has been appointed to be judge.
Answer to question 2: It comes across as if he wants to be the one who decides, but he's not clear on that either.
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MJ. Smith said:
Elsewhere in the forums, I have supported a Restoration Movement package. I think anything narrower would be difficult to market.
One of our former members has spoken wisely! [;)]
Paul quoted poets and philosophers of his days, we, too, should do the same when it comes to having a "Restoration Base Package" that includes more than what a "narrow" group would have to offer. The church is divided as it is and by narrowing it down we'll divided it even more and that will leave us with only a few articles online and a few books here and there - I think we should include "Restoration" in a broader sense.
By the way, Daniel's references to Lynden are just references that contains information about the church of Christ that has already been elaborated. Those references are not our creeds, our only creed is the Bible - i.e. The Word of God! [Y]
DAL
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Super.Tramp said:Bill Shewmaker said:
We NEED a great collection of Restoration Movement scholarship.
I welcome any and all College Press published works. The Bible Study Textbook series has been in Pre-Pub too long. I hope that is not an indication of a lack of interest.
I would also like to see the Gospel Advocate and Coffman commentaries.
Me too! Though to be honest, Gospel Advocate is a little outdated. The only good volumes that have some meat on them are the ones by Guy N. Woods and McGarvey; the others are way too simple for me to invest my money on the whole set - plus, I already own it in another software. Now Coffman has more scholarship and is a complete OT and NT set, I'd rather push for that one, though I haven't used them in a long time. I would also go for the church of Christ version of the Tyndale commentaries - i.e. The Living Word Commentary Series and the several Denton/Shertz Lectureship Books which would be (sort of) the equivalent to the Preaching the Word Series by Kent Hughes.
I commend Daniel's suggestion, but I think he should just go ahead and contact Logos so they can guide him better as to how to go about this whole process. I think there's plenty of material on the Restoration movement (broader sense) that could/would make for a great new line of Restoration Base Packages that would cover from Starter all the way through Portfolio. It's all a matter of pulling the right strings to make it a reality.
By the way, one thing I love about Coffman is how most of his work contain the famous "catch phrase" (if you would) ---- "As 'so and so' aptly said...." or "As 'so and so' stated..." and then he goes on to quote non church of Christ commentators.
DAL
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And to Brother Daniel: The whole point of writing about Wayne Jackson, how he gets crucified by others for teaching head covering and the use of song books that are not written by members of the church of Christ was to get you to see that you cannot get too narrow in your approach to this new line of Restoration Base Package because that would pretty much leave you with nothing but a few resources that will not even make a Silver Base Package. We would barely get to Bronze if you narrow it down too much. We'd probably have to start with "Starter" then "Semi-Starter" and then "Bronze" LOL so you gotta be a little bit more open.
DAL
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Daniel Lange said:
The purpose of this thread was to announce the work and continue building up a list of members in churches of Christ who use Logos and would offer to contribute to the work.
Please clarify. Are you a new product manager that works for Logos?
I am still doubtful excluding those groups closest to your own is productive.
Who decides what is acceptable for this package?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Gary Butner said:
Mark and James, it's very obvious to me both of you are members of the churches of Christ. I have little use for liberalism or legalism, and I identify with those who love The Lord and His grace. I have been a Logos user since 1993, and I know Bob Pritchett. do you think we should form a group. I lean towards forming a Restoration Movement Group. I would appreciate hearing your opinions?
I'd be happy to be part of a "Restoration Movement" Group dedicated to trying to get a "Restoration Movement" base Package in Logos.
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Daniel Lange said:
The purpose of this thread was to announce the work and continue building up a list of members in churches of Christ who use Logos and would offer to contribute to the work.
It sounds as if the best route for you to take is the PB route I've mentioned before. That is the only way to maintain as narrow a perspective as you appear to want as Logos for business reasons needs to address broader markets. Put another way, Logos' apparent thrust currently is (1) to expand the languages that it serves and (2) to address the major theological streams e.g. it is an Orthodox product manager not a Russian Orthodox Church in Exile product manager.
Daniel Lange said:It is evident that this post has gone "south" so to speak.
Actually, I've been pleased at the degree to which the forums users have not spoken judgmentally/insultingly regarding the various subgroups - I unfortunately have a reputation of "police" because I don't allow slander or libel in my living room.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Denise said:
If I understand Daniel correctly, he's attempting to create a library, to which a series of members can purchase and have a reasonable assurance what they're reading is consistent with their faith (or as Daniel says, the New Testament church).
Personally, I think that's great. I'd recommend that for many smaller groups, especially if they can fund a significant portion of the cost that Logos must pay.
I may be wrong but I believe that this is what the long promised, still coming PB store was envisioned to provide. Because of Logos' generous policy of perpetually updating the tagging on resources, they have an overhead level that would be hard to negotiate if they took over such resources. I would love to see Logos become the hub for all church publications.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hi Super (...)? I honestly don't feel comfortable quoting your user name. Nevertheless, you have asked this question several times, thus I would like to respond to you just quickly. 1st, judgment would be guided by a publications adherence to God's word. 2nd, judgment concerning the package resources will preferably be discerned collectively by the church of Christ Library for Logos Bible Software group.
A church of Christ Library for Logos Bible software should not be treated as if we are canonizing Scripture. This is a man made pool of resources that will in some degree be judged by the group's interest and likes. Some publications may not even wholly comply with New Testament doctrine, but given a high degree of leaning toward New Testament doctrine, it may qualify. I disagreed with some responses above such as Everett Ferguson, but some of his works are very helpful to the cause of New Testament teaching, and would likely be included as I have some of his works in my own library. Hope this helps, but if you are sincerely interested, please check back soon as I hope in the near future a collection of publications will be put together for the project and presented publicly.
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Thanks for the insight MJ. I am not familiar with "PB." Would you mind explaining that further?
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Daniel Lange said:
Thanks for the insight MJ. I am not familiar with "PB." Would you mind explaining that further?
Personal Book = PB
I have Brother Guy N. Woods commentary on James in Personal Book format in my Logos Library. I'm planning on taking the time to do his volume on John, 1st, 2nd Peter, 1st, 2nd, 3rd John and Jude. Also Bro. McGarvey's volume on Mark, since I already have his Acts volume in my Logos library. Personal Books would be a last resort alternative, in case Logos can't come to an agreement with "Church of Christ Publishers." Also, it would be cheaper doing them this way. Note: This is a screen shot when I had Logos 4, I now own Logos 5 along with some of the other new line of base packages.
DAL
Take a look:
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Oh my goodness, I didn't even think. 'Denise' might sound tramp-y. But maybe not. It's hard to say, when one is an anti.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I like the recently introduced idea of a denomination (or New Testament church) funding a package. Contents could be determined by the religious group (though once developed, rights are between Logos and the publisher). Could be sold by Logos to anyone of course.
But the cost might be sky high. It'd sort of be a 'denomination pre-pub' (or New Testament church pre-pub).
Conceptually Logos, similar to being a publisher for an author (self-publish), it would step into the shoes of many dieing small religious publishing houses attached to smaller religious groups.
OK, maybe not.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Daniel Lange said:
1st, judgment would be guided by a publications adherence to God's word
Talk about a non answer. Most views represented in Christianity believe themselves to adhere to God's Word. Some can do a better job of defending their answer than others. Here the answer appears to be "me and my buddies." BTW ST grew up as a Church of Christ missionary kid in Japan - he was asking an honest question with a genuine purpose. You might also want to ask him who the original "Super Tramp" is.
Daniel Lange said:2nd, judgment concerning the package resources will preferably be discerned collectively by the church of Christ Library for Logos Bible Software group.
I would be very disappointed in Logos if they promoted this.approach. I see it as potentially eroding their credibility. If various denominations/sects/cults/theological stances which to form Faithlife Groups and/or offer PB files - more power to them.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Daniel Lange said:
1st, judgment would be guided by a publications adherence to God's word
Talk about a non answer. Most views represented in Christianity believe themselves to adhere to God's Word. Some can do a better job of defending their answer than others. Here the answer appears to be "me and my buddies." BTW ST grew up as a Church of Christ missionary kid in Japan - he was asking an honest question with a genuine purpose. You might also want to ask him who the original "Super Tramp" is.
Daniel Lange said:2nd, judgment concerning the package resources will preferably be discerned collectively by the church of Christ Library for Logos Bible Software group.
I would be very disappointed in Logos if they promoted this.approach. I see it as potentially eroding their credibility. If various denominations/sects/cults/theological stances which to form Faithlife Groups and/or offer PB files - more power to them.
Don't be disappointed M.J. This is the type of inconsistent and somewhat arrogant attitude the younger generation of preachers get at some "schools of preaching." I can tell he either went to SW or to Elvis' town to study to become a preacher (you know where Elvis Presley was from, right?).
One of the things that disappointed me a lot when I went to preaching school was to see how the school of preaching from the SW and the one in Elvis' town always thought they were better than other preaching schools. Our students would be in one end and they (both SW and Elvis' town) would look at us and pretty much walk away. If you wanted to talk to some of their students, they would barely talk to you or pretty much ignore you. My thought to that kind of attitude was, "How disappointing is to see this type of attitude in our brotherhood when we're trying to promote the same goal as they." Soon I learned they were trained to have the "holier than thou" attitude and my school is better than yours. So my approach was to continue preaching the Word and let God judge each according to their deeds/attitudes.
DAL
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Daniel Lange said:
Hope this helps, but if you are sincerely interested, please check back soon as I hope in the near future a collection of publications will be put together for the project and presented publicly
I am sincerely interested. I will pray for your speedy success.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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MJ. Smith said:
You might also want to ask him who the original "Super Tramp" is.
Regardless of who the original "Supertramp" is - I think Daniel approached his "screen name" with a pre-conceived idea and why not "passing a little bit of judgement" hence violating John 7:24, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement." - In short, he jumped the gun when he said he didn't feel comfortable quoting Supertramp's screen; mainly, the tramp part...LOL...that's why looking up words is helpful, because not all mean what we think they mean. Take a look:
Someone who wants to explore new places on foot, car, plane, etc.Chris McCandless referred to himself as "Alex Supertramp" as a surname.2. tramp verb1 to walk, tread, or step especially heavily <heard hobnailed boots tramping across the square>
synonyms trample, tromp; compare PLOD 1
related words march; thud; footslog, stodge, trudge; stamp, stomp
2
synonyms HIKE 2, tromp
3
synonyms TRAMPLE 2, stamp, stomp, trompAlso: a journey on foot or a walking trip <took a long tramp through the woods>
Merriam-Webster, I. (1996). Merriam-Webster’s collegiate thesaurus. Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster.Now that you know, don't feel bad quoting the "tramp" part of his name [:P] [A] It's in the Bible too and it doesn't mean what you thought it meant [;)]19 “Gad, a troop shall tramp upon him,
But he shall triumph at last.
The New King James Version. (1982). (Ge 49:19). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.0 -
WoW, DAL,
I just thought it meant hobo. [:P]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super.Tramp said:
WoW, DAL,
I just thought it meant hobo.
It might, it might [:P] - but as we emphasize in the church of Christ - Context, context, context! or else it becomes a pretext [;)]
All joking aside, I don't think Daniel meant any harm. I think he's just a newbie who's really excited with Logos that I totally agree with him that we should have a "Restoration Base Package" for those of the restoration persuasion - and I just made it an alliteration...hehehe
I'd love for it to be sooner than later, though, as that would be the best way to get resources cheaper.
DAL
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DAL said:
(you know where Elvis Presley was from, right?).
I'm old enough to remember Elvis getting drafted[:D]
DAL said:school of preaching
Dad put literally hundreds through Boise ... how's that for a hotbed of Church of Christ preachers? Since Puget Sound College of the Bible closed there aren't many local choices.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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DAL said:
I don't think Daniel meant any harm. I think he's just a newbie who's really excited with Logos that I totally agree with him that we should have a "Restoration Base Package"
No harm done. I just hope he succeeds. I'm a little jaded and tend to throw cold water on everything. Sorry.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Most readers at this point I would strongly suggest to see original posting and purpose of thread. If you do not identify with churches of Christ (non-liberal and non-anti movements, as should have been originally stated) then this thread may have little of any value for you at this stage in our development. This would especially relate to those who may disagree with the approach of the work. As stated before, however, a collection of titles and authors will hopefully be presented soon for public endorsement, which would then have a much broader relevance to the public square.
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151427 said:
Most readers at this point I would strongly suggest to see original posting and purpose of thread. If you do not identify with churches of Christ (non-liberal and non-anti movements, as should have been originally stated) then this thread may have little of any value for you at this stage in our development.
You seem to still not understand that your definition is meaningless to most people on the forums. To show you why, as I was growing up "anti" applied to those who did not use musical instruments, "liberal" applied to the Christian Churches in the ecumenical movement that resulted in the United Church of Christ. To my sister-in-law, being from a different part of the country, "anti" meant unwilling to engage in multi-congregation institutions and "liberal" meant Northern/Western. To others "anti/liberal or" was used for the open/closed communion issue or one/many communion cups or separate preacher/elders as preachers or separate Bible classes for children or .... It would make more sense to make a Faithlife group for Restorationists and allow people to drop out as they see your goals are incompatible with your goals ... or be observers until they see your goals are similar to their own. Making a push that publicly fails can make it much harder to convince Logos that this is a group that needs attention. Please listen to your allies who have worked with Logos on the forums for years and have seen how groups succeed in getting recognition as a target audience. Otherwise, please stick to the PB route.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hi again, M.J.
Thank you again for the comment. I understand that this "description," I would better understand it may be broad and have a wide-range of meaning to some. I appreciate the concern. That is why those who do make request to join the group (again there is already a group established, readers please visit https://www.facebook.com/groups/1485846511646120/ to make request) these will receive further information as a type of screening to help better establish unity and prevent conflict. If I could edit my original post, I would probably change the description to say something a little more specific like churches of Christ (No non-institutional, instrumental, hand-clapping, boston, ecumenical movements, Christian church, or Disciple of Christ, etc.) Then again, this still might not cover every base, which is why further information will be shared upon request.
The good thing is, this post has already generated over a thousand views, and people are making request to join the group and help the effort. As Nehemiah said, God will prosper us. Readers are welcome to look again at our original post to see the purpose of this good work and join if this is something of interest.
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Daniel Lange said:
...I understand that this "description," I would better understand it may be broad and have a wide-range of meaning to some... If I could edit my original post, I would probably change the description to say something a little more specific...
Daniel,
Although, you can not change your original post you might consider creating a FaithLife account and group there, too. (see here https://faithlife.com/ ) . Faithlife is Logos.com's social network and it is simular to facebook, but your faithlife account would be directly connected with your Logos.com account and Logos software account, too. Which means that as you and others create documents and personal books inside of Logos Bible Software you can immediately share them with anyone in your group or the greater public. In a Faithlife social group you and others could help share the work of editing resources before they are finally released, too. Anyway, there you could create a new statment of purpose and one that could be editied if you or someone else wanted to clear up a misunderstanding.
And, please keep in mind that on the world-wide-web our words are never as clear as we might imagine them to be!
Modern English has a great many dialects and is a mother tongue spoken in many nations(not to mention a 2nd or addition language for many, many others around the globe).
Some words, terms, or jargon that have taken on one meaning within the society (fellowship / congergation) that we live in might have a very different range of meanings in another English speaking community or within another dialect. And, guess what? Churches of Christ exist in many different countries and those that fellowship with it may use dialects of English and languages that differ in many ways from those that you are used to.
One last thing though Daniel; I admire the humble spirit I sense in your words.
Grace and Peace,
Brian
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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Oh, I think Daniel knows the english language quite well. And he also knows the terms liberal in the presence of anti .... they're church of Christ 'fightin' terms. Kind of like motorcycle colors.
I think the part Daniel is clueless on, is the word 'forum'. I think he's under the impression this is an announcement board and that the OP can 'manage' the conversation. I think we all know starting a thread only stays on-course for a single entry.
But his comments bring back many, many hurtful memories. I'm not referring to the hurt resulting from abiding by the guidance from the New Testament. Nor the hurt on the receiving side. Rather the penchant for managing other human beings by virtue of ones opinion (i.e. 'belief') and demanding the divine's full agreement.
The churches of Christ are a rough and tough world. Whether it's representative of the early first century church, hard to say. 1st John is a good clue. And of course the early chapters of 1st Corinthians.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Daniel Lange said:
I would probably change the description to say something a little more specific like churches of Christ (No non-institutional, instrumental, hand-clapping, boston, ecumenical movements, Christian church, or Disciple of Christ, etc.) Then again, this still might not cover every base,
Do you actually paint that on your church signs?
I wonder if you screen baptismal candidates that well.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Daniel,
I would be interested in seeing such a package be developed and would be very interested in purchasing it depending on the number and quality of the resources that would be included. Here is a starter list of resources I would like to have access to in Logos. It is by no means complete, but I wanted to at least put it out there to see if others have interest as well.
Apologetics Press Articles
Many of these articles are probably already available in the various publications put out by Apologetics Press that are also on this list.
http://apologeticspress.org/APTopicsList.aspx?pub=1
http://apologeticspress.org/ContactUs.aspx
Apologetics Press Books
While they do not do this for their entire catalog, many of their books are offered for free in PDF form.
http://apologeticspress.org/PDF-books.aspx
http://apologeticspress.org/ContactUs.aspx
Bellview Church of Christ Lectureship Books
These are available on CD in PDF form. I believe the electronic copies go back to 1975.
http://www.bellviewcoc.com/lectures.php
Bob Winton Outlined Commentaries
Commentary set covering the Old and New Testaments. Unfortunately, I could not find direct contact information for Bob Winton, whom I **believe** self-publishes. The best I could do was find a link to a vendor. However, I **believe** the vendor's list of available volumes may not reflect all of Bob Winton's writings.
http://www.tuckersbooks.com/cobw.php
Christian Courier Articles
These are mostly (if not exclusively) written by Wayne Jackson and are available for free.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles
https://www.christiancourier.com/contact
Complete Library of Foy E. Wallace
This is actually the tile of a CD that includes the following works by Foy E. Wallace:
A Review of the New Versions
The Book of Revelation
Bulwarks of the Faith
The Christian and the Civil Government
Commentary on Romans, Galatians & Ephesians
Current Issues
Evaluation of the New International Version
God's Prophetic Word
The Gospel For Today
The Instrumental Music Question
Mission and Medium of the Holy Spirit
The Neal-Wallace Discussion
Number One Gospel Sermons
The Plain Truth About the Revised Version
The Story of the Fort Worth Norris-Wallace Debate
Sermon on the Mount and the Civil State
The Present Truth
King James Version of the Bible
A Large Photographic Section
Articles Appearing in Gospel Magazines: Gospel Advocate Editorials (1930-1934); Gospel Guardian (1935-1936); Bible Banner (1938-1949); Torch (1950-1951)
The copyright says Foy E. Wallace, Jr. Publications, but I have not found a specific website for the publisher (and am not even sure if they are still in business). The link provided below is simply for an online vendor.
Discovery Magazine
A monthly Christian evidences magazine by Apologetics Press for kids. Issues are already available online for free in PDF format.
http://apologeticspress.org/DiscoveryArchiveIndex.aspx
http://apologeticspress.org/ContactUs.aspx
Florida School of Preaching Lectureship Books (South Florida Avenue Church of Christ)
These are available on CD in PDF form. I believe the electronic copies go back to 1994.
http://www.fsop.net/Lectureships/booksandmedia.html
http://www.fsop.net/contact.html
Fortify Your Faith
Publisher affiliated with Christian Courier (see above). Books for sale on Christian Courier link here. The website appears to be undergoing maintenance right now, but I **believe** this is the publisher Logos would need to contact regarding obtaining the rights of any of the many books published by Wayne Jackson.
http://www.fortifyyourfaithbookstore.org/
Freed-Hardeman University Lectureship Books
These are available on CD in PDF form. I believe the electronic copies go back to 1953.
http://www.fhu.edu/lectureship/index.aspx
http://www.fhu.edu/lectureship/contactus.aspx
Focus Press Articles
I would suspect that many of these articles would be included in Think Magazine (see below) .
http://www.focuspress.org/Articles.html
Gospel Advocate
Publishes a wide range of material affiliated with the churches of Christ, including a complete New Testament commentary set. Some of their material appears to be available in digital format already.
http://stores.gospeladvocate.com/
James Burton Coffman Commentaries
Commentary set on covering both the Old and New Testaments. As far as I know, these are currently available electronically in two formats. They can be viewed online for free one chapter at a time or they can be purchased for use with Theophilos. Looks like Abilene Christian University Press is the publisher.
http://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/
http://www.theophilos.com/products.htm
http://www.acu.edu/campusoffices/acupress/
Memphis School of Preaching Lectureship Books (Forest Hill Church of Christ)
These are available on CD in PDF form. I believe the electronic copies go back to 1982.
http://www.msop.org/lectures.php
http://www.msop.org/foresthill.php
National Christian Press
Publisher with the rights to various books by Thomas B. Warren.
http://www.nationalchristianpress.net/NCPcatalog.pdf
http://www.nationalchristianpress.net/about.html
Power Lectureship Books (Southaven Church of Christ)
These are available on CD in PDF form. I believe the electronic copies go back to 1989.
http://southavencoc.org/?page_id=173
Reason & Revelation
A monthly journal by Apologetics Press on Christian evidences for adults. Issues are already available online for free in PDF format.
http://apologeticspress.org/APArchiveIndex.aspx?pub=1
http://apologeticspress.org/ContactUs.aspx
Sain Publications
Publisher affiliated with the churches of Christ. I do not readily see any resources already available in PDF format on their website, so I have simply provided the link to their catalog.
Http://sainpublications.com/catalog/
Schertz Church of Christ Lectureship Books
The Schertz lectureship was previously known as the Denton Lectureship. This is important to know because the Schertz/Denton lectureship books work together to form a set. Each year the lectureship has focused on one or more specific books of the Bible. When the books are taken together, they essentially form a commentary set. I know that there is a CD available with these books in electronic form, but I do not know how far back they go.
http://www.schertzcofc.org/lectureship/2013/lectureship2013.htm
Science Vs. Evolution (Vance Ferrell)
This is not affiliated with the churches of Christ as far as I know. It is just a resource that I have found to be helpful and that I included here because it is available online for free. It is actually an expanded version of another book by Vance Ferrell called The Evolution Cruncher (which is available for free in PDF from the same website).
http://evolutionfacts.com/sci-ev-PDF/sci_vs_ev_PDF.htm
Shenandoah Church of Christ Lectureship Books
These are available on CD in PDF form. I believe the electronic copies go back to 1987.
http://www.shenandoahcofc.org/lectureship.html
http://www.shenandoahcofc.org/index.html
Spiritual Sword Lectureship Books (Getwell Church of Christ)
From what I can tell, these books are not available to the public in PDF form. I would **assume** they still exist in digital form somewhere, but I cannot confirm this, as I have not spoken to anyone at the Getwell Church of Christ about it. This is the same congregation that puts out the Spiritual Sword quarterlies (see below), and those are available on CD as PDFs. If the Spiritual Sword lectureship books are also in a digital format somewhere, they could potentially go back to 1976.
http://www.getwellchurchofchrist.org/the-spiritual-sword-lectureship
http://www.getwellchurchofchrist.org/locations/church-building
Spiritual Sword Quarterlies
A 48-page quarterly that addresses a wide range of topics. While not free to download, the website indicates issues are available digitally on a CD.
http://www.getwellchurchofchrist.org/the-spiritual-sword/the-spiritual-sword-quarterlies-topics
http://www.getwellchurchofchrist.org/locations/church-building
Think Magazine
Christian magazine the covers a wide range of topics. Issues are available to download, but they are not free.
TLC Publishing
Publisher dedicated to “Preserving Restoration Movement Materials.” In looking over the website, I found “125+ Debates in PDF.” I do not see any information about who owns the rights to this work, but that sounds like something that would be a welcome addition to Logos.
http://tomchilders.net/store/debates-in-pdf/?menuid=9
Truth for Today Commentary Series
Commentary set covering both the Old and New Testaments. Published by Resource Publications.
http://www.resourcepublications.net/index.php?page=series
Truth in Love Lectureship Books (East Hill Church of Christ)
Unlike most of the lectureship books on this list, these are available for free in PDF. The books go back to 1992.
http://www.easthillchurch.org/TIL_Books.html
Valor & Virtue
A Christian evidences magazine by Apologetics Press for teens. There only appear to be two issues so far, but both are available online for free.
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I think the argumentative and inconsistent spirit of some of the younger generation of preachers may not be a good thing to inject in the new Restoration Base Package.
Argumentative: In the sense of them dictating what goes in the package and not allowing others' opinions to count when selecting the "chosen" resources for that base package. Especially if it's not on par with their particular "school of preaching."
Inconsistent: In the sense that a particular author can be an "Anti-" member of the church of Christ yet he's allowed in the package because they agree with him in most of the things he says (e.g. Homer Hailey [Anti]).
Hence, a wise recommendation would be to start all over and based the package on the "Restoration Movement" as a whole; not as a "Church of Christ Library" since, based on what the OP has already found out by participating in the forums, he would have to "break down" what "Church of Christ Library" actually means every time someone wants to know what the package is all about. Is it the Church of Christ estimated 30 AD or the one estimated 33 AD? Is it the one that believes in head covering or the one that doesn't or does it make a difference? Is it the one that allows skits during VBS or is it the one that rejects them because no drama/skits need to be part of any church service? Is it the church of Christ that promotes "Bible Search/Bowl" where they promote competition among different youth groups from different churches or is it the one that doesn't do that? (promoting competition in any form or shape doesn't fly with the conservative groups) Is it the one that doesn't approve selling stuff in a garage sale to raise money for a church activity or is it the one that approves selling lectureship books and their respective DVD's or CD's to raise money to pay for the lectureship?
The point? Those are petty things that shouldn't cause division, yet for some reason if you were taught that way in X school of preaching, then it doesn't fly and you wanna go around "debating" people to "prove your point." I know a lot of young graduates that they make it their job to go to other congregations and if they spot or smell something that is not in agreement with what they believe, then they go around trying to force people to change or they'll get "disfellowshipped." My question is: What happened to the "Autonomy" concept found in Scriptures? The worse part is that type of attitude comes from preachers who are just fresh off of preaching school and haven't even been in the ministry that long and they already want to go around debating and changing things for others. Maybe a key element that needs to be taught in all schools of preaching should be "Humility." Paul says, "Knowledge puffs up...but love edifies." (1 Cor. 8:1)...And If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know..."(1 Cor. 8:2).
My hope and prayer is for a Restoration Base Package to come along soon, but not under the terms suggested here...e.g. "Ferguson doesn't fly, but Jack Cottrell does, since in a sense he believes some of the things we believe" and that type of thing. That approach will only cause more disagreements and we don't need any more of those in the church.
Blessings!
DAL
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As a supplement to what [b]DAL[/b] wrote, I'd like to point out that if the Verbum packages contained only works written by Catholics or Eastern Orthodox, they would be noticeably smaller... and probably less useful to most Catholic and Eastern Orthodox owners of those packages.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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OK, DAL. You're getting seriously close to loosing your Denise approval rating. I've no problem with a lack of humility since I've never actually observed humility (I wasn't born in early 1st century Galilee so as to observe).
But don't mess with Homer Hailey. He lost his anti credentials in Las Cruces NM, and was left with great Bible commentaries. Plus he's from Tucson Arizona, no less! You can't come from Tuscon and not be great.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
OK, DAL. You're getting seriously close to loosing your Denise approval rating. I've no problem with a lack of humility since I've never actually observed humility (wasn't born in 1st century Galilee).
But don't mess with Homer Hailey. He lost his anti credentials in Las Cruces NM, and was left with great Bible commentaries. From Tucson Arizona, no less! You can't come from Tuscon and not be great.
LOL Chill Denise! He's actually my favorite commentator. I got all his commentaries, I just wish I had them in Logos since print books are not my cup of tea anymore. I still read his Revelation commentary, though I've changed my view and no longer go for the view he takes. One of my mentors met Homer Hailey and said he was a true gentleman and in GREAT SHAPE too. I think he said being skinny but muscular at the same time. Some of his "lectures" are found in the "Florida College Annual Lectureship" available in Logos -- but that probably won't fly as acceptable in the new "Church of Christ Library."
DAL
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The original poster seems to contemplate a package that would be curated by the group he is forming, but published by Logos. That model raises a host of practical questions. Will it be limited to publications that Logos already offers? If not, who will obtain the necessary permissions from copyright holders? There are some potential advantages: this group might have the connections to obtain permissions on better terms than Logos might otherwise obtain, and Logos would not take any potential heat for what is (or is not) included. A simpler model, though, would be for this group to act simply as a focus group or advisory committee to suggest works to include in a potential product that Logos would develop. In that case, Logos will have to decide whether the group represents a large enough potential customer base to be worth the effort of developing the product.
I do believe there would be a significant amount of interest in package on Restoration Movement history. That would interest users from all branches of the Movement, and potentially others who might also be interested in that area of church history. As has been noted, Logos already has a few works by authors with roots in the churches of Christ and other branches of the Restoration Movement. I for one would like to see them add more, which seems like a necessary first step before a Restoration Movement base package would be practical. If Logos wanted to go in that direction, my personal advice would be to use it as an opportunity to build closer ties with some of the universities affiliated with the churches of Christ and Christian churches by working with them to develop a base package tailored for use by their students. That would effectively guarantee them a minimum user base, and would over time increase the use of Logos by preachers in those groups.
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Who decides which universities are Worthy?Tom Wildsmith said:build closer ties with some of the universities affiliated with the churches of Christ and Christian churches
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OK, DAL. My apologies; I lost my head. I can clearly remember the banging of the heavy weights in the late afternoon. He exercised outside in his backyard.
However, Tucson and southeast IS just short of heaven. And ... the home of my favorite Supreme Courst justice-ess.
And Tom's advice is good. It'd be difficult as MJ and Super .... notes, to tailor right down to the jot/tiddle in the restoration world.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Paul C said:
Who decides which universities are Worthy?Tom Wildsmith said:build closer ties with some of the universities affiliated with the churches of Christ and Christian churches
Paul, that's not where I was going, and apologize if it was anything I said that left you with that impression. I simply meant that Logos could choose several that would be willing to partner with them on a project like this. You wouldn't want all of the schools - there are too many for the partnership to be workable - and some of them may simply not be interested. As a practical matter it would probably make sense to initially approach a couple of the larger schools affiliated with each of the major branches of the movement. I suspect that if those schools were willing to work on the project, the consensus package coming out of the process would be attractive to people across the movement.
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Tom Wildsmith said:
use it as an opportunity to build closer ties with some of the universities affiliated with the churches of Christ and Christian churches by working with them to develop a base package tailored for use by their students.
I think this is a very good starting point. Does anyone know what software is promoted in the Theology schools/departments of Abilene, Harding, Pepperdine ... ? I list these because (a) I know people who went there and (b) they'd also be a market for Noet.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I fear it is you who misunderstood "Where I was going" I agree that consulting universities would be a good starting point. The issue here is Which universities are allowed. The OP suggests that all contributors or resources would be JUDGED by his Mutual Admiration Society. Daniel Lange said: judgment concerning the package resources will preferably be discerned collectively by the church of Christ Library for Logos Bible Software group.If this were allowed to happen, the resulting package would be so focused, That it might be better for folks of that persuasion to pick their resources individually ... Or start a software company they could totally control.Tom Wildsmith said:Paul, that's not where I was going, and apologize if it was anything I said that left you with that impression.
To demand that the Church of Christ Package only include resources aligned with his Theology, seems dictatorial to me.0 -
Paul C said:
I fear it is you who misunderstood "Where I was going" I agree that consulting universities would be a good starting point. The issue here is Which universities are allowed. The OP suggests that all contributors or resources would be JUDGED by his Mutual Admiration Society.Tom Wildsmith said:Paul, that's not where I was going, and apologize if it was anything I said that left you with that impression.
If your issue is with the original poster, it might make for a clearer discussion if you'd respond directly to his comments. My specific suggestion was:
Tom Wildsmith said:As a practical matter it would probably make sense to initially approach a couple of the larger schools affiliated with each of the major branches of the movement. I suspect that if those schools were willing to work on the project, the consensus package coming out of the process would be attractive to people across the movement.
Is there something about my suggesting that approach that troubles you? It certainly wasn't intended to be divisive or dismissive of anyone else's beliefs or heritage.
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MJ. Smith said:
Does anyone know what software is promoted in the Theology schools/departments of Abilene, Harding, Pepperdine ... ? I list these because (a) I know people who went there and (b) they'd also be a market for Noet.
I don't know which software they might have (if any), but I know WordSearch is one where the Gospel Advocate Commentaries are being sold. They also used to have (maybe still do) Burton James Coffman OT & NT commentaries on a platform called Theophilus; which is the same platform for the Denton Lectureship books and the Living Word Commentary Series. For what is worth, Theophilus was a very bad, dysfunctional and not user friendly software; especially when it came to adding resources that used the same platform! Total headache!
Oh and when you called Abeline for "tech support" it seemed nobody knew what to do to unlock additional products. So I gave up on the software, even though I still have the CD's. If I want to check Coffman I go to the internet. If I want to check Gospel Advocate I just do it with the reader app WS has available for phones, since I really don't want to install the CD in my laptop.
Maybe putting this together will not be as easy as we would like for it to be. [:(]
DAL
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MJ. Smith said:
I think this is a very good starting point. Does anyone know what software is promoted in the Theology schools/departments of Abilene, Harding, Pepperdine ... ? I list these because (a) I know people who went there and (b) they'd also be a market for Noet.
I don't see any of them on the Logos page that lists partner schools.
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Tom Wildsmith said:
I don't see any of them on the Logos page that lists partner schools.
I see several Restoration Movement schools:
- Lincoln Christian University
- Manhattan Christian College
- Johnson Bible College
- Dallas Christian College
- Ozark Christian College
- Central Christian College of the Bible
These would be Independent Christian/Churches of Christ (instrumental) of the Stone-Campbell heritage.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I think Bear Valley Bible Institute in Denver, Colorado gets Logos for their students and they are non-instrumental. I'm not sure if MSOP does the same, I think they just get Mac laptops.
DAL
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Just chiming in here, I would very much like a Restoration Movement base package. Also, I agree that they should consult with universities and presses within the movement to determine, which books to include and at what level (Starter, Bronze, Silver, Gold). They could also do some number crunching to find out how many Logos users have identified themselves as Church of Christ/Disciples of Christ (and I think I'm missing a group in here), and what books we have in our libraries. I do agree also that there are a shortage of Restoration Movement books available in the Logos collection. Actually, I wish that they were faster in getting books into the Logos format once they are published (Although, I understand that it is a tedious process.)
I believe the problem involves a combination of issues. (1) Logos cannot negotiate (and to determine what one works in/out) with one large authority or even publishing house for everything in the Restoration Movement. (2) Most(?) universities part of the Restoration movement are not partner schools, which would automatically create a larger base of users within the movement. (3) The aforementioned fragmented nature of the movement: The Churches of Christ, the Disciples of Christ, and the Int'l Churches of Christ. Some of them at least also have further divisions within those sects (sad but true). Perhaps getting the top publishing houses (Gospel Advocate in particular), and a couple of the top universities in the movement (as mentioned by Tom W.) on board would help this. Perhaps they could also give/sell some sort of package to their students as well (Dallas Theological Seminary and Knox Theological Seminary).
P.S. I came across this listing of Universities/Seminaries via the Association of Theological Schools (They are responsible for accrediting various theology programs.). You can search for seminaries and universities by denomination there. See: http://www.ats.edu/member-schools/denominational-search
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For any lazy ones like me: http://www.ats.edu/member-schools/denominational-search
I assume it's primarily structured toward formal theology schools. Interesting list.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Alex, I agree with you to a point. But many of the same issues also occur for Baptists and for non-/semi-denominational evangelicals. So I trust Logos can navigate the problems if they have a product manager dedicated to the area. Watching other groups develop, that seems to be a key.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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<<Alex, I agree with you to a point. But many of the same issues also occur for Baptists and for non-/semi-denominational evangelicals. So I trust Logos can navigate the problems if they have a product manager dedicated to the area. Watching other groups develop, that seems to be a key.>>
Logos has done this with other groups, and so all we need to do is make suggestions, and then let them run with the ball. I do think we need to push for a Restoration package(s), and that so we do not get stuck only with resources from one of the preaching schools. I want to focus on Christ and not one of the 28 sects. I have a very large library at this time, however, I probably will purchase a RM package.
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