BRAINSTORM: How to search to find the literary type/genre of a passage

MJ. Smith

I am frustrated by the single, undefined results I get in Literary Typing:

And yes, I know that there is additional information on genre hidden in Andersen-Forbes

So I want to design the best possible search for genre of a particular passage as assigned in any of my resources.

Suggestions?

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Comments

DMB

OK, I'll bite. I haven't a clue what you're asking (not reflecting on you).

For me, the only solution was to off-load the classes (private use), attribute them, and then see what the pattern was, relative to other 'clues' (e.g. abnormal morph usage, syntax, vocabulary, etc).

In other words, I never got much value from the raw genre assignments. Only the combinations which became significant.

And (I hate to bring this up, yet again, groan) but the assignments are VERY modern.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/597012#Comment_597012

I'll bite. I haven't a clue what you're asking (not reflecting on you).

I want suggestions on how I can build a search argument that could show me the resources I own that would tell me that Luke 2.41-52 is labelled a pronouncement story or Acts 17.16-34 is labelled a missionary speech.

but the assignments are VERY modern.

Some of the genres are very old - depends upon whose work one reads. It also depends on what function you assigned to the genre definition. In some theorectical systems it is analogous to assigning linguistic terms. Even you can't really think like a 1st century Christian - too many terms and concepts you have to erase from your mind.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/597015#Comment_597015

Well, yes, you got me there!

I'm defining modern as significantly outside the writer's immediate world (e.g. a 4th century assignment would be modern for the NT; a Philo type assignment would be modern for a Nehemiah type writing). But that's why I stick with same-world (sort of) comparisons (attributing within the writing, letting the neural nets reject non-significant definitions).

A good example is Matthew vs Romans. The neural net can easily detect the genre and effectively define an introduced genre code as a gimme (adding nothing relevent). And then go on to suggest that Matthew and Romans are by the same author/group (even though badly differing text, genre-wise).

Again, as above, I'm not remotely close to your question. Just reflecting on my attempts nearby.

Dave Hooton

So I want to design the best possible search for genre of a particular passage as assigned in any of my resources

Apart from AFAT no resources expose Genre, and that is only available via the Context menu (as well as being restricted to the OT). So Literary Typing for OT & NT is all that is available in a passage-based Guide.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/597015#Comment_597015

I want suggestions on how I can build a search argument that could show me the resources I own that would tell me that Luke 2.41-52 is labelled a pronouncement story or Acts 17.16-34 is labelled a missionary speech.

Logos don't have a universal datatype for Genre i.e. a Bible Search for <AndersenForbesGenre = Narrative (Author-to-Reader)> will only get results in AFAT (over any OT passage). Also see my previous reply.

Were you expecting "missionary speech" in the OT? A-F might tag that with one of the categories under Human-to-Human Speech.

Schumitinu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/597021#Comment_597021

So, in Logos we have Anderson Forbes Genre Coding. But then we also have two datasets, "Tooman Literary Genre Coding of the Old Testament" and "New Testament Genre Coding". Can these two datasets only be accessed via the guides?

Since these are datasets, why can we not search them? I find that funny. A dataset is something to be accessed and searched. All the data is already there and organized. All that is missing is the option to access it via search. I'd like to make visual filters for example that show me the genre coding in the bible text. But again, I don't think that is possible.

Is this something we need to suggest to Logos, make these datasets searchable? Also for Logos to include the clause search option for creating visual filters? This would open doors to access and use datasets like the bible facts in a whole new way. We then could make visual filters for people (participants), the persons of God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), events etc. This however is just partly related to the topic here.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/620916#Comment_620916

Can these two datasets only be accessed via the guides?

To the best of my knowledge that is correct. It also appears that there are no definitions to correspond to the genres.

why can we not search them? I find that funny.

There are very few datasets that we can search directly ... for each of them there is a specific search tool or argument.

A dataset is something to be accessed and searched

For the program not necessarily the user - unless you're speaking of data warehouses which have a different database design structure or data mining which has a different set of tools.

Logos, make these datasets searchable?

Logos has explored this possibility in the past determining rightly, I believe, that the benefits do not justify the expenditure in the current priorities of users.

for Logos to include the clause search option for creating visual filters?

This is worth giving a uservoice shot at priority. My personal take is that the coding is not yet "industrial strength" which would be a prerequisite for my using it as a basis of filters.

Schumitinu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/620922#Comment_620922

So have you found a way to search for Genre of a given passage in your resources?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/620925#Comment_620925

So have you found a way to search for Genre of a given passage in your resources?

A satisfactory way - no. I believe genre and rhetorical figures and schemes are a major weakness in Logos. Given their approach to the outline section, I'm unsure how to press them into a satisfactory solution. And given my current commitments, its not my highest priority. However, I will gladly support anyone else who choose to take up the cause in a well-reasoned manner.