Dynamic Pricing Glitch on:

So I was curious how much an individual title would reduce the price of the Tabletalk magazine collection. I bought two, and had no change in the dynamic price of the bundle, so I bought 4 more, and still see the exact same price. This leads me to believe there is something wrong with its dynamic pricing calculations.

Thanks in advance.

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abondservant

fwiw the before purchase price, and the after purchase price are both: $287.71

Toby Steele (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601400#Comment_601400

We've opened a case for this. The price you're seeing is the Academic discount. However, your dynamic price isn't being applied even though it should be.

Thanks for the report.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601431#Comment_601431

Thank you Toby

Is it possible this is a one off issue, or is it more systemic?

Toby Steele (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601431#Comment_601431

However, your dynamic price isn't being applied even though it should be.

Forgive me, I responded too quickly with that assertion. The website is actually behaving as expected.

In the majority of cases, Dynamic pricing will use the regular sale price as a baseline, even if you are given an Academic discount.

The website will also always display the less expensive price. In this particular case, the Academic price is actually less expensive for you. If your Dynamic price were lower than the Academic price, then you would see the Dynamic price instead.

Sorry again for the mistaken assertion! [:)]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601467#Comment_601467

So then to be clear, if I purchased the collection via the website with my academic discount I would then be re-purchasing 36 titles that I already own, because that is cheaper?

Also, normally academic discount shows up in red, this time its black.

Thanks for looking into it for me

Toby Steele (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601470#Comment_601470

Thanks for looking into it for me

You're welcome!

So then to be clear, if I purchased the collection via the website with my academic discount I would then be re-purchasing 36 titles that I already own, because that is cheaper?

I would contact Customer Service at 1-800-875-6467. They are best equipped to answer this kind of question.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601482#Comment_601482

abondservant

I think what toby is saying is, you lost your dynamic pricing when you have your academic discount. So you lose.

When you have academic discount, you still need to pay for the books you've already own.

at least on most of them.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601490#Comment_601490

abondsevent

I think what toby is saying is, you lost your dynamic pricing when you have you academic discount. So you lose.

When you have academic discount, you still need to pay for the books you've already own.

at least on most of them.

I was afraid of that. I appreciate the academic discount, but its being handled in a messy way... I've got Bob's email, maybe I'll drop him a line on monday.

SineNomine

This issue has come up before and been answered in the same way, unfortunately.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601531#Comment_601531

At this point, neither of my kids are showing the kind of interest in Biblical Studies that would allow them to get the same use out of my 9K+ library that I am getting, but hopefully that will change as they get older. Still, I intend to leave them my Library and so I would not take advantage of Academic pricing even if I had a chance to do so.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601531#Comment_601531

In a way Logos is against it's own motto. (never pay the same book twice).

I don't like the way they handle this, they should still honor academic + dynamic.

Seriously, at the end, normally the dynamic pricing is not much different than the academic, because we have spent much money on the particular collections/bundles.

My recommendations:

1. DO NOT BUY BOOKS INDIVIDUALLY. (because logos won't honor your dynamic price)

2. If you buy a certain book individually, sometimes logos wouldn't honor the price equally towards the collection where that book belongs.

3. If you do want to buy certain books individually, make sure THAT price is way cheaper than how much that book cost in the collection where that book came from (w/academic price).

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601539#Comment_601539

Let's understand something...Academic pricing is not some great deal--it's a pity party for sad sacks who are supposedly incapable of buying needed resources. I'm not totally sure why it's offered (probably under the auspices of an "education is valuable, let's honor the effort" concept). I probably make less money than any participating student who isn't a non-working teen, and I work in education (as a substitute teacher), but I still pay full price for what I get (well, full price minus whatever sale or bundle discounts I can take advantage of). My point is, I don't understand why anyone thinks that they are owed anything where academic discounts are concerned. In typical "Christian" parlance, the whole program is a gift of pure grace...wholly undeserved. It is also, in a sense, a selfish play, since there is no inheritance factor involved in the "investment". Only the initial recipient benefits (apart from some trickle-down spiritnomics--i.e. the recipient may share what he/she has learned with his/her seed). AD resources are not transferable, so they are sort of like a term life insurance policy, having limited viability and utility. Considering the undeserved nature of the program, expecting Logos to pile sale pricing on top of academic discounts is pretty much like biting the hand that feeds. Not cool.

Now, that said, I think that there is some element of what is inelegantly known as "Indian giving" in Logos giving something away and then effectively charging for it later. I think this is especially crass when part of the idea of giving away the "free" resource (I don't see how the quote marks can be left off here) is to introduce the customer to something that is part of a larger collection which Logos is hoping the customer will develop a taste for upon feasting on the gratis sampling. Take the two Brueggemann offerings in the "One Free/Two for 99c" promotion. If someone just takes these and never buys another Brueggemann resource, they've made out pretty swell. If on the other hand, customers decide they like the resources enough to want more and choose to get the Brueggeman Collection, they completely lose the benefit of what they got for free. In this case, the better (paying) Logos customer gets nada and the freeloader keeps his nifty deal. Not cool.

Still, I don't think it's fair to suggest that Logos doesn't honor dynamic pricing. They obviously do, and I have benefited from it often, as has Logos, since I can say with certainty that I would not have purchased tons of stuff I now own otherwise (lack of DP is why I didn't buy the 2010 & 2011 Master Collections even though I wanted them very much). Saying that Logos is guilty of blanket error or worse, when they really just need to tweak a procedure here or there isn't right. Yes, that's right...not cool.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601574#Comment_601574

Academic pricing is not some great deal--it's a pity party for sad sacks who are supposedly incapable of buying needed resources.

I'm a bit at a loss as to how to respond. The charitable response would be to suggest you proofread your comments before submitting them, with an empathetic eye in mind. The less charitable response would be to point out, as others have done, that you seem to not really care who you offend. It's one thing to make an objective statement, for some people to not like the truth of it, and for them to be "offended" (note the quotes). It's another to use loaded adjectives in subjective comments that truly are insulting.

Am I supposed to spend more than I need to? We're supposed to be good stewards of our finances. Should I tell my wife I spent $1K more than Logos was willing to sell it to me for? When I'm a senior (not far away), should I refuse a senior discount, because I can afford the full price? If part of the value someone wants out of their library is that it be inheritable, then they ought to pay full price or plan to pay the delta at some point. But if that's not a priority, and you legitimately qualify for the discount, then why pay the full price?

Donnie

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601574#Comment_601574

Let's understand something...Academic pricing is not some great deal--it's a pity party for sad sacks who are supposedly incapable of buying needed resources. I'm not totally sure why it's offered (probably under the auspices of an "education is valuable, let's honor the effort" concept). I probably make less money than any participating student who isn't a non-working teen, and I work in education (as a substitute teacher), but I still pay full price for what I get (well, full price minus whatever sale or bundle discounts I can take advantage of). My point is, I don't understand why anyone thinks that they are owed anything where academic discounts are concerned. In typical "Christian" parlance, the whole program is a gift of pure grace...wholly undeserved. It is also, in a sense, a selfish play, since there is no inheritance factor involved in the "investment". Only the initial recipient benefits (apart from some trickle-down spiritnomics--i.e. the recipient may share what he/she has learned with his/her seed). AD resources are not transferable, so they are sort of like a term life insurance policy, having limited viability and utility. Considering the undeserved nature of the program, expecting Logos to pile sale pricing on top of academic discounts is pretty much like biting the hand that feeds. Not cool.

Ouch - first of all your rhetoric is unnecessarily acerbic. I suspect as I make 1200$ a year (even that is considered a scholarship and which is spent on Logos), I do indeed make less than you. My church (and an Anglican individual) is footing the bill for my education out of love and investment in my future. Its a gift that is undeserved, and humbling. One I seek to honor to the best of my ability. I do this by living an ascetic lifestyle, I live as inexpensively as I can, study as hard as I can, try to make every dollar spent stretch as far as I can, and by preaching to the best of my ability when they call upon me to do so. This means in practice I don't eat out, I don't indulge in entertainments that are not free, and I stay intentionally conscientiously single. Has the church made these demands? nope. But I know that they are giving sacrificially to provide this level of support, and so I live sacrificially in response. Some say I'm cheap, or too tight with my money - and they are right! But I have good reason. By the time I graduate, between rent, tuition, food, and books the church (and the Anglican) will have supplied nearly 50,000$, and I will have an M.Div, a ThM and a PhD. Any way, its not out of a sense of entitlement - its an effort to honor those who are sacrificing financially to help me succeed scholastically.

Dynamic pricing is not sale pricing, its not having to purchase the same book twice. I would feel differently if it were some 10% off sale, on top of the academic discount - but this is NOT what I am asking for here. I just don't want to purchase the same title twice. If I bought a book at the store, and then a week later see it in a set, I would gladly return the first book and purchase the set. This is sort of how dynamic pricing works, except on Logos end they usually give you less of a refund.

If there were ten books in the set, and individually the books cost 1$, but the set of 10 could be acquired for 5$, in the set each book is valued at $.50. Thus with the book I already have, I would be discounted .50$ off the set, but lose the license to the individual title when I purchase the license to the set.

As to your second assertion that Logos gains nothing from this program that is indeed patently false. They may lure us in with lower cost titles, but once in we are in velvet handcuffs locked to their product. As long as we stay in ministry, we will likely be buying from Logos. I have ~6000$ invested in Logos - and I am not likely to stop using their product or switch to a two software system as long as logos is in business. I suspect this is true of others in the AD program as well. I have a slip of paper in my safe (along with the title to my truck, lease agreement to my apartment and so forth) with my username and password on it, and instructions regarding who should gain the library in the event something happens to me. I have a friend who can open the safe, and so my software can be used by whomever I select without any need for transference. Secondly, and perhaps its unwise to mention this, but I can vouch for the fact that academic licenses can be transferred. Logos bends over backwards to help folks.

Now, that said, I think that there is some element of what is inelegantly known as "Indian giving" in Logos giving something away and then effectively charging for it later. I think this is especially crass when part of the idea of giving away the "free" resource (I don't see how the quote marks can be left off here) is to introduce the customer to something that is part of a larger collection which Logos is hoping the customer will develop a taste for upon feasting on the gratis sampling. Take the two Brueggemann offerings in the "One Free/Two for 99c" promotion. If someone just takes these and never buys another Brueggemann resource, they've made out pretty swell. If on the other hand, customers decide they like the resources enough to want more and choose to get the Brueggeman Collection, they completely lose the benefit of what they got for free. In this case, the better (paying) Logos customer gets nada and the freeloader keeps his nifty deal. Not cool.

I doubt I will buy anything else by him. But I do jump on the free books from Logos, and usually the .99 cent deals. Maybe that makes me a freeloader, but I see it as making my dollars stretch as far as I can.

Still, I don't think it's fair to suggest that Logos doesn't honor dynamic pricing. They obviously do, and I have benefited from it often, as has Logos, since I can say with certainty that I would not have purchased tons of stuff I now own otherwise (lack of DP is why I didn't buy the 2010 & 2011 Master Collections even though I wanted them very much). Saying that Logos is guilty of blanket error or worse, when they really just need to tweak a procedure here or there isn't right. Yes, that's right...not cool.

Believe it or not I didn't originally know that this was a dynamic pricing vs academic issue. It just worked out that way and so when I asked if it was systemic, it was a sincere question. Giving an issue I care about some more exposure was a happy accident.

The long and the short of it all comes down to this. I don't want to pay for the same book twice. Whether the title is on sale or not.

Dynamic pricing works with other sales (look at base packages - I am offered dynamic pricing + 10% off reformed diamond), I just want similar treatment for the AD Program. According to the math, without academic pricing each title in the tabletalk collection in question is valued at about 1.14$. However with academic pricing each title costs roughly .99$ or a whopping 15 cent discount per title. I currently own 36 titles (of 289) - and I paid about 72 dollars for those titles. I'm only asking that I be credited at the reduced academic rate ($.99 x 36 titles) when I try to purchase this product. This would/should bring the cost for me from 287.71 down to about 252$ (all numbers rounded for simplicity).

Edited: to clarify a few things.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601634#Comment_601634

Academic pricing is not some great deal--it's a pity party for sad sacks who are supposedly incapable of buying needed resources.

I'm a bit at a loss as to how to respond. The charitable response would be to suggest you proofread your comments before submitting them, with an empathetic eye in mind. The less charitable response would be to point out, as others have done, that you seem to not really care who you offend. It's one thing to make an objective statement, for some people to not like the truth of it, and for them to be "offended" (note the quotes). It's another to use loaded adjectives in subjective comments that truly are insulting.

Am I supposed to spend more than I need to? We're supposed to be good stewards of our finances. Should I tell my wife I spent $1K more than Logos was willing to sell it to me for? When I'm a senior (not far away), should I refuse a senior discount, because I can afford the full price? If part of the value someone wants out of their library is that it be inheritable, then they ought to pay full price or plan to pay the delta at some point. But if that's not a priority, and you legitimately qualify for the discount, then why pay the full price?

Donnie

yes! I just want things to be fair. If they are going to offer students discounts, and tell us we don't have to buy things twice, then don't make me buy things twice. That's all.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601634#Comment_601634

Donnie, I admit that I painted with a broader brush than I could have otherwise used, but I honestly can't recall anyone who is on AD who hasn't carped about Logos not allowing them to stack discount on top of discount in addition to the massive discount they already are getting. I suppose that assuming the few gripers represent the whole is a sort of argument from silence in reverse, but it also comes across as being rather like ingratitude. Still, I also admit my attempt to condense the matter into a brief representative illustration was lacking in art and was more acerbic than it should have been. I don't have a problem with folks taking advantage of the AD program. I do feel that it is inappropriate for those who take advantage of the program to demand to ability to double and triple dip their discounts. If folks do the math and they are better served forsaking AD and applying normal sale discounts, they should be able to buy outside the AD structure to acquire those price and transfer benefits. But holding Logos's feet to the fire when Logos is extending a tremendous amount of grace is anything from inappropriate to just plain ugly. To anyone who isn't doing or hasn't done that, I apologize for giving the impression of lumping you in with those who have. But as I tell classes all the time, if what I'm saying doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you.

If Logos chooses to offer DP to AD, that's great for those who can take advantage. But if they don't offer it, that's their call. I don't have a problem with folks criticizing Logos, but the criticism should be fair. There is a difference between what we want as customers and what we can demand. I think the only thing we can rightly demand from Logos is paid-for functionality. Everything else is a negotiation, and sometimes we will get what we want and sometimes we won't. It's fine for us to be disappointed and make our case, but accusing Logos of wrong-doing is out of line.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601666#Comment_601666

Statistically, David, the odds are not your favor (your kids).

I was impressed with Catholic missionaries in the post-Columbus days of South America, who consciously targeted the younger rich native kids for conversion. Up here in Norte Mexico (before us Arizonans split over the annual holidays question), the opposing Franscicans simply targeted 'everyone', with dire results (got themselves killed by the next generation).

But like you, I wouldn't touch the academic discount with a ten-foot-pole. I'd go to the library for a few years, and then purchase for the next 40. Happily Logos canceled my OL package, so I'm pretty sure I'm package-free.

Oh, and did I mention, I'm 98% Libronix? Yes, 98% package-free Libronix complete with licenses. Just how many Logosians have those stats??

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601668#Comment_601668

Well, my kids are not yet as old as I was when YHWH reached into my world and jerked a knot in my chain at 23. They do have the benefit of being much more conceptually up to speed than I was back then. My daughter chose to be baptized about a year ago, and she chooses to participate in weekly services and service projects. My son is much more reserved, but he is kind of like the tortoise...a slow and steady type. I'm optimistic where they are concerned. I don't expect them to be as focused as I am, at least not for another few years.

Oh, and did I mention, I'm 98% Libronix? Yes, 98% package-free Libronix complete with licenses. Just how many Logosians have those stats??

You definitely beat me in that department. I have acquired a number of L5-only resources, and the one I'm reading now (as I've discussed in another thread) has forced me to dip my toes into the L5 universe. I've finally started to make use of Clippings. It seems helpful and I'm happy to make use of it. I still download every available L3 file I can when I purchase older titles, though.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601666#Comment_601666

Donnie, I admit that I painted with a broader brush than I could have otherwise used, but I honestly can't recall anyone who is on AD who hasn't carped about Logos not allowing them to stack discount on top of discount in addition to the massive discount they already are getting.

Thanks for the reply, David.

I believe I can safely say that I'm one of those who hasn't complained about limitations on how AD can realistically be applied. Where publisher agreements allow (and we know that some of those publisher restrictions are quite onerous), I would like already purchased resources to be pro-rated against bundles / sets / packages which I purchase (a.k.a. "dynamic pricing"). That seems to be what you're saying, too.

Generally, though, my attitude is that if I want it / need it badly enough, I'll overlook any tolerable shortcomings in that area and make the purchase. Otherwise, I'll live without it.

I've also always found it curious, since dynamic pricing first appeared, why Logos has to "enable" it on a bundle / set / package. If it's eligible (again, publisher stuff), it just works.

Donnie