I suspect most Logos/Verbum users don't use Proclaim. It would be nice to have an option to suppress the Proclaim line in an already sometimes crowded right click menu:
I don't get that line when I right-click. Did you ever participate in some beta program involving Proclaim?
Did you ever participate in some beta program involving Proclaim?
No I haven't. I haven't even seen Proclaim. But it may be a Verbum or beta only problem.
I've never seen that line before, and I use Verbum (but not beta).
Did you ever participate in some beta program involving Proclaim? No I haven't. I haven't even seen Proclaim. But it may be a Verbum or beta only problem.
I thought this option was only intended to appear if one had Proclaim installed and it was running.
I do have Proclaim and have just tested it - and it appears whether Proclaim is running or not so something does seem to be not working correctly
(I am running the Logos beta so I don't think its a Verbum-specific issue although showing this option when you don't have Proclaim installed at all might be)
I have the Proclaim menu option in Verbum as well, and I never used Proclaim, tested it, signed up for it, or tested it in beta. I too think it would be a good idea to remove the entry.
I have the Proclaim menu option in Verbum as well, and I never used Proclaim, tested it, signed up for it, or tested it in beta.
This is not strictly a Verbum problem. I have that option in the right-click menu. I have neither Verbum nor Proclaim installed and am running 5.2b Beta 3 on Mac OS 10.9.3.
Deleted original post. The content of this post was incorrect - see my response further down. [:)]
This was a deliberate change, and having "Send to Proclaim Church Presentation Software" in the context menu is by design.
Thanks for the clarification - appreciated.
[N] [N] From a usability standpoint. Cluttering the context menu for publicity purposes is just a suboptimal decision. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
I would hope this is limited to those cases where there is something logical to send to Proclaim - otherwise it becomes a nuisance not a positive information blurb.
I thought this option was only intended to appear if one had Proclaim installed and it was running. This was a deliberate change, and having "Send to Proclaim Church Presentation Software" in the context menu is by design. This was done, essentially, to increase the visibility of Proclaim among Logos users. Those of you who are already familiar with Proclaim and don't plan to use it can ignore the menu option, but for users who haven't heard of Proclaim this provides a convenient way to discover a program they might find useful. It's a relatively low-impact way of informing users of more interconnection with Logos. Sorry this didn't make it into the 5.2b release notes when it was implemented, there was a mix-up and the case was closed before reaching testing.
This was done, essentially, to increase the visibility of Proclaim among Logos users. Those of you who are already familiar with Proclaim and don't plan to use it can ignore the menu option, but for users who haven't heard of Proclaim this provides a convenient way to discover a program they might find useful. It's a relatively low-impact way of informing users of more interconnection with Logos.
Sorry this didn't make it into the 5.2b release notes when it was implemented, there was a mix-up and the case was closed before reaching testing.
I am sorry, this is a terrible idea and onerous to your users, and it violates any user interface guidelines document I have ever read. Why purposely put a command in the menu that does not work for me? And is not something I have chosen to sign up for or activate? It's an advertisement embedded in menus I try to use. If one ad is good, are 2, 3, or 4 of them better? How do I distinguish the things that actually are features of the software and the things that are ads? What are the side effects it will cause to me in my work when it goes OUT OF the app I am working on, brings up a browser, to open a page? What if I click on it by mistake? Aren't there other, more appropriate places to put AN ADVERTISEMENT, like on the Home page, instead of SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF MY WORK FLOW?
I really think you made some decisions WITHOUT asking users how they feel. In all due respect, how can you say to me "Just ignore it" or "It's low impact"? I actually find that rather inconsiderate of how I use the software. You are wrong. It is NOT low impact.
I really hope you reconsider this. This is an example of the over-emphasis on marketing functionality at the expense of things we need. I can't even get anyone at Logos to acknowledge that Cited By configuration is unusable with 200 collections, most of my library tagged, etc., much less fix it, for example, yet there is time to do this. Why doesn't Marketing take the initiative to be OUR spokesperson inside to start fixing many of the small usability things we complain about instead? If you want to increase the perception and acceptability of Logos among users I assure you that will go farther.
I am sorry, this is a terrible idea and onerous to your users
Sorry Logos, but I must agree with everything Don wrote here. It is marketing run amok.
This was done, essentially, to increase the visibility of Proclaim among Logos users.
I appreciate your desire to "increase visibility" but I agree with others that I don't think it is best to do it this way.
Wa-el, just looking at the problem, it's pretty normal to put sister-product connects in the menus. That goes back a long ways. If I remember, Microsoft was late to that party.
On the other hand, the right-click menu is getting a bit obnoxious, especially if you're in hebrew. Probably we can safely assume both Logos Marketing and Proclaim users don't study hebrew.
But continuing from my bad-design snippet from yesterday, and ignoring 'advertising', Logos is loosing management of the right-click menu. And so, ease of training new users, etc.
I'd suspect it shows how internal decisions are made at Logos.
Aren't there other, more appropriate places to put AN ADVERTISEMENT, like on the Home page, instead of SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF MY WORK FLOW?
Amen. This is a bad idea and will only irritate users.
At least make it something I can turn off.
Deleted, as no longer necessary.[:)]
I thought this option was only intended to appear if one had Proclaim installed and it was running. This was a deliberate change, and having "Send to Proclaim Church Presentation Software" in the context menu is by design. This was done, essentially, to increase the visibility of Proclaim among Logos users. Those of you who are already familiar with Proclaim and don't plan to use it can ignore the menu option, but for users who haven't heard of Proclaim this provides a convenient way to discover a program they might find useful. It's a relatively low-impact way of informing users of more interconnection with Logos.
As a follow up to this, I owe you guys an apology. I was mistaken in my original post, and the current implementation as reported is indeed a bug. [:$]
The design change was supposed to enable the "Send to Proclaim" context menu option for contexts in which we already display "Send to Powerpoint", not enable it for inappropriate situations (like this one-word selection). This was some confusion on the part of the developer when it was implemented, and I took that confusion as the intended design. I should have looked into it more thoroughly before posting such a matter-of-fact explanation. I'll leave those explanations to Bradley and Bob in the future. [:)]
Again, sorry for the false alarm. A case has been made to fix this.
That sounds a lot better. I edited my post to avoid controversy.
Thanks fgh, and thanks for the reminder: I'll edit my original post as well (but I'll leave it quoted in my follow-up). [:)]
This was a deliberate change, and having "Send to Proclaim Church Presentation Software" in the context menu is by design. This was done, essentially, to increase the visibility of Proclaim among Logos users.
Nope, I don't buy it. You increase VISIBILITY using a blog, email, even an article on Homepage. There is no need for "send to PROCLAIM" button if Proclaim is not installed! Logos team should reevaluate their "design" concepts to make it LESS cluttered with unneeded buttons, not MORE cluttered.
I don't use Proclaim, I have no need for "send to PROCLAIM" button.
EDIT: I think I understand Dylan as saying "we tweaked this button to display in a similar contexts as 'send to PowerPoint'", but this is not what this post is about. We don't want it there at all, if Proclaim is not installed in the first place. We don't want marketing in the workflow!
I agree. I am not using the beta, so I don't see the "Send to Proclaim" command when I right click on something (such as a picture) that does give a Send to PowerPoint command. But I surely wouldn't want to see it, as I don't have Proclaim installed and never will.
it's pretty normal to put sister-product connects in the menus. That goes back a long ways. If I remember, Microsoft was late to that party.
Microsoft does use sister-product connects in the menus, but only if you have those products installed. Find other ways to market Proclaim than bothering Logos users in the menus with it every time. Proclaim is obviously struggling for credibility these days, and this seems like a desperate measure. It's lame.
@ Toughski, Rosie:Hold your horses, people. Dylan has retracted that statement because it was made in error. Read his later posts.
In the contexts where send to Powerpoint is appropriate, arguably "Send to Proclaim" would be appropriate as well. Arguably.
@ Toughski, Rosie:Hold your horses, people. Dylan has retracted that statement because it was made in error. Read his later posts. In the contexts where send to Powerpoint is appropriate, arguably "Send to Proclaim" would be appropriate as well. Arguably.
I know, and I was going to say the same to Toughski, before noticing that he'd added an EDIT. I was reacting not to the initial post (which Dylan admitted is a bug), but to Dylan's corrected statement, as was Toughski in his EDIT which I quoted.
I understand that at this point in the thread we're talking only about the situations where sending to screen presentation software would be appropriate (e.g., right-click on an image). But I do not think "Send to Proclaim" would be appropriate even then if Proclaim is not installed. "Send to PowerPoint" shouldn't be present either, if PowerPoint isn't either. (I can't test whether it works that way, because PP is installed on my machine.)
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I hate clutter.
It would be nice to have an option to suppress the Proclaim line in an already sometimes crowded right click menu:
Alternative is provide users a way to prioritize left side choices (similar to Dashboard customization). Personally would suppress "Send to Proclaim" or move to bottom since am not using Proclaim so other choices are more useful: e.g. Top 5 Bibles being higher.
Keep Smiling [:)]
It would be nice to have an option to suppress the Proclaim line in an already sometimes crowded right click menu: Alternative is provide users a way to prioritize left side choices (similar to Dashboard customization)
Alternative is provide users a way to prioritize left side choices (similar to Dashboard customization)
It has been established above that the line is displaying in error.
I'll edit my original post as well (but I'll leave it quoted in my follow-up).
For the future, I suggest adding an "incorrect post" line before the original text, and then applying the strikethrough style on the text itself, but not removing it. That makes the thread easier to follow. My own post never had time to enter the discussion, so that was different.
That said, I think I was tired and reacted too quickly when I removed it. I kind of missed the Powerpoint part. I totally agree that Proclaim shouldn't show up then either if Proclaim isn't installed.
"Send to PowerPoint" shouldn't be present either, if PowerPoint isn't either. (I can't test whether it works that way, because PP is installed on my machine.)
It took me a long while to figure out, but Send to PowerPoint is indeed displayed even when Powerpoint isn't installed, as is Send to Keynote. I agree that ideally they shouldn't be. Though at least those programs are 'neutral', which Proclaim is not. And removing them would require Logos to look into other parts of my computer, while they already know perfectly well that I don't have Proclaim installed.
(Good thing I tested this today. My new computer has arrived to the store, and I think at least one of those programs is preinstalled.[:)])
Send to PowerPoint is indeed displayed even when Powerpoint isn't installed, as is Send to Keynote. I agree that ideally they shouldn't be. Though at least those programs are 'neutral', which Proclaim is not. And removing them would require Logos to look into other parts of my computer, while they already know perfectly well that I don't have Proclaim installed.
PowerPoint and Keynote are "neutral"? I've never heard of Keynote. It's pretty easy to see if a program is installed. Just check in the registry on Windows. I'm sure there's something equivalent for Mac. They'd have to do that to check if Proclaim is installed anyway. It makes no sense to offer a (non-greyed) command on the menu to send something to a program that isn't even there to receive it. I wonder what happens if you run that command when you don't have the corresponding software installed? Probably nothing. But it's still stupid to have it there, and could confuse people.
Points to consider?
(1) Why can't the specific programs be nested in a "Send to..." line?
(2) Isn't it even better to leave the choice to a pop-up "Export to" kind of interactive window?
(3) "Send to Proclaim" is much more acceptable than "Send to Proclaim Church Presentation Software". Would any users want to see "Send to Powerpoint Slideshow Office Application"?
An alternative is adding program icon(s) to Share line:
Also could add icon(s) for open Link List(s) to Share so could click Link List to change location.
Observation: left side has enough Bible Reference choices that none of my Top 5 Bibles appear; hence dreaming of personalized order for sections. FYI: have prioritized favorite commentary in Top 5 Bibles for quick way to open Commentary to Bible Reference.
Observation: left side has enough Bible Reference choices that none of my Top 5 Bibles appear;
Even when you scroll down? I can't get mine to not appear in Verbum.
Observation: left side has enough Bible Reference choices that none of my Top 5 Bibles appear; Even when you scroll down? I can't get mine to not appear in Verbum.
Scroll down has opportunities to open something else if mouse movement is a bit off line while scrolling down. Learned when Reference is selected, then use wheel to scroll down 23 choices on Left Hand side in Verbum 5.2b Beta 3 followed by mouse to click on desired item.
Personally have three custom Guides for Bible References so addition of "Send to Proclaim" and "Share: * * * *" pushed Top 5 Bible section out of sight. Logos addition of "Sermon Starter Guide" also increased Guide section size.
Is there any reason why the context menu can't be bigger, so we don't have to scroll? The things I want to click on always seem to be at the bottom.
