Offering something free and then requiring a credit card? CustomerServiceFail
Got an email with this offer.
Throughout August, get Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Works, vol. 3: Creation and Fall completely free!
Tried to download but the site required my credit card.
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Hi Steve, Welcome to the forums.Steve Shepherd said:get Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Works, vol. 3: Creation and Fall completely free!
Tried to download but the site required my credit card.
This issue has been discussed several times and it is unfortunate it we still have to deal with it. I have heard several reasons for this but the official word is; Logos is intending to change the website software and do away with the requirement. I don't know when it will be done.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Welcome to the forums.
Yes, a credit card is required but not used. Logos is in the process of changing their sales software so that it is not required but currently it is required so provide a address to verify that they have the rights to the product in your country and because the software product they use for their cart process requires it. A search of the forums will find several threads on the topic including some where the company explains the current situation and their plans.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Several might be an understatement. Seems like this is probably THE single most common question.MJ. Smith said:Welcome to the forums.
A search of the forums will find several threads on the topic...
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Steve you could also use a PrePaid Debit Card instead. that way you would control the amount that could be charged at any one time. Also Logos has been offering a second book with the free book for only .99 cent which is Great!
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MJ. Smith said:
Welcome to the forums.
Yes, a credit card is required but not used. Logos is in the process of changing their sales software so that it is not required but currently it is required so provide a address to verify that they have the rights to the product in your country and because the software product they use for their cart process requires it. A search of the forums will find several threads on the topic including some where the company explains the current situation and their plans.
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/30699/566159.aspx#566159
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I think we need to look at the issue more objectively.
Logos has provided far more information on why it's just too hard not to make potential customers angry.
Now compare the level of we-really-don't-want-to-steal-your-identity-just-yet explanation, to the explanation on the mystic NA28 apparatus (I'm thinking since late 2012?). Hmmm .... let me see ... I think the NA28 explanation is around here somewhere.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Steve Shepherd said:
Tried to download but the site required my credit card.
Not searching the forums for the other ~150 threads which address this issue: customer fail.
-Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:Steve Shepherd said:
Tried to download but the site required my credit card.
Not searching the forums for the other ~150 threads which address this issue: customer fail.
-Donnie
Not at all. It is a very reasonable complaint.
I wonder how much potential revenue Logos has lost because of this longstanding problem. I understand the problem from their end but don't believe it is insurmountable. Also: why don't they include a note/link on the shopping cart page explaining it?
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near as I can tell they've lost out on giving away about 300 books to people over the years.
*Shrug*
It isn't directly our responsibility to ensure logos doesn't lose sales. It can be annoying when people don't search the forums. I think thats all your seeing here sean.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Sean, Logos has been rolling in the dough since late 2009. The problem got so bad, they proposed a sky scraper in Bellingham (at the shock of the local planning and zoning commission).
By asking for a credit card (which automatically makes potential customers nervous), they've been able to slow down the growth, thereby helping their fellow Christian software companies stay in business (and Bellingham to retain its small town appeal).
Rather than being critical, it's proper to truly appreciate their immense kindness (especially the part where they don't tell the customer if they're going to keep the credit card number to share the marketing data with their 'business partners', potentially losing it during a major hack).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Steve Shepherd said:
Got an email with this offer.
Throughout August, get Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Works, vol. 3: Creation and Fall completely free!
Tried to download but the site required my credit card.
(Order via credit card then delete the card.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Sean said:
Not at all. It is a very reasonable complaint.
I didn't say it wasn't a reasonable complaint. In fact, I think it is a reasonable complaint.
I was pointing out the sort of drive-by attitude with which the complaint was raised, and that as the first post by someone on these forums. The question has been asked at least dozens of times. The standing answers from Logos are out there. If someone wanted an answer, versus just pointing out a problem as if no one had previously raised the issue, he/she could have easily found it.
Donnie
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If someone wants the freebie, because it's actually 100% free regardless of the credit card issue, then get it, if not, then don't get it. It may be a legit complaint, but hey, is not like Logos is the only one with the same process for free stuff.
DAL
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Thanks for the comment Donnie. You're right. I did not search the forums for this topic. I guess my bad. I really wasn't looking for a discussion. Just wanted to post my comment. I've worked in Christian publishing and marketing for 20+ years and still get frustrated that marketers don't disclose information in their calls-to-action. If something is promoted as FREE, I think telling them that a credit card is required in the CTA is appropriate.
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I make no apologies for my drive by attitude Donnie. That is the beauty of the internet. We can connect in seconds with what appeals to us and voice concerns and comments in an instant. Kudos to you for your insane commitment to not just "drive by", but to "pull in" and "park" and stay long enough to make 1,096 posts to this forum.
Personally, I have commitments elsewhere, but keep up the good work!
Blessings,
Steve
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That's condescending.Steve Shepherd said:I make no apologies for my drive by attitude Donnie. That is the beauty of the internet. We can connect in seconds with what appeals to us and voice concerns and comments in an instant. Kudos to you for your insane commitment to not just "drive by", but to "pull in" and "park" and stay long enough to make 1,096 posts to this forum.
Personally, I have commitments elsewhere, but keep up the good work!
Blessings,
Steve
Hey I know mr marketer, lets just run into a room full of strangers, and see if we can employ our silver tongue in an effort to cause umbrage.
Hmm... Maybe his Marketing experience was gained in Bellingham? lolL2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Steve Shepherd said:
insane commitment to not just "drive by", but to "pull in" and "park" and stay long enough to make 1,096 posts to this forum.
Personally, I have commitments elsewhere, but keep up the good work!
One man's commitment is another's ball and chain. [;)]
I don't know where I would be without the helpful posts of those ladies and gents with "insane commitment."
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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That's condescending.
Hey I know mr marketer, lets just run into a room full of strangers, and see if we can employ our silver tongue in an effort to cause umbrage.
Hmm... Maybe his Marketing experience was gained in Bellingham? lol
Talk about condescending, abondservant. I guess I was expecting the Super Users in this forum would be more helpful.
PS. No idea what Bellingham means.
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I'm usually the least insightful or discerning person you're likely to meet. But in this case, I think I hit the mark.
On the other hand, Logos could fix this long-standing problem, versus explaining the challenges it presents.
-Donnie
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Thanks. This is a helpful explanation. I think it would be a better user experience to be honest in the CTA that a credit card is required.
Thanks for the helpful reply!
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For what its worth...having a credit card on file sure does come in handy when you actaully want to make a purchase! [;)]
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Steve Shepherd said:
PS. No idea what Bellingham means.
Bellingham, Washington, USA is the physical location of Logos headquarters.
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John Kight said:
For what its worth...having a credit card on file sure does come in handy when you actaully want to make a purchase!
That's for sure!
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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That's NOT for sure.
Lordy. What if all the internet businesses that captured your cc, kept it on file 'just in case'? And didn't inform you. Like Logos.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
That's NOT for sure.
Lordy. What if all the internet businesses that captured your cc, kept it on file 'just in case'? And didn't inform you. Like Logos.
All we were saying is that it comes in handy. It is convenient. That's the part that is "for sure".
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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You can always order the product and then delete the card.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Exactly Lyndon.
Isn't it about time we killed this topic, mountains out of mole hills etc. Those of us who see no problem keep quiet and those with a problem just stop using Logos. Problem solved.
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Exactly JohnB
These freebies are meant for existing customers that don't want to spend money with Logos anymore.
New Logos customers should go elsewhere. They're giving us a big headache.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
These freebies are meant for existing customers that don't want to spend money with Logos anymore.
Huh? [:S]
I take advantage of most of these freebies and purchase lots of Logos resources.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I have only been here a short while. In my time, I have learned to assume that the vast majority of Denise's posts are tongue in cheek. Otherwise I don't know how to make sense of them. [:)]
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True, Tanner. In my growing up years, you had your Fix-Or-Repair-Daily church members (Ford owners), or the Shove-It-Or-Leave-It church members (Chevy owners). All in good fun, especially if indeed ones car refused to budge.
But these days, times have changed. It's near the end time and everyone is nervous they'll be 'left behind'. A new Logosian that didn't check the Logos forum before saying something bothering him merited not just but one but several slaps in the face. I assume part of a new Logosian commercial 'Gee, I needed that!'.
And demainding a non-customer's credit card certainly makes sense, since it's convenient to existing Logos customers. Well, ok!
I see this all in good humor, since at our church, the church parking lot requires a credit card to park. Visitors sometimes complain. But we assure them that we're trying to fix it (it's really, really hard). And that other visitors have complained before, so the more recent visitors shouldn't complain. We're kind of tired of it. And for goodness sakes, if risking a credit card and identity is such a problem, go to some other church. Makes sense to me!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
True, Tanner. In my growing up years, you had your Fix-Or-Repair-Daily church members (Ford owners), or the Shove-It-Or-Leave-It church members (Chevy owners). All in good fun, especially if indeed ones car refused to budge.
I see this all in good humor, since at our church, the church parking lot requires a credit card to park.
Is the parking lot segregated? Is it organized according to the choice of automobile? ... Credit card? ... Or a combination of both?
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The nicer cars (Cadallacs especially) are invited to sit in the choice seats .... er ... parking spaces. Plus the gate is timed so that old run-down cars that arrive late must park alone.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Visitors sometimes complain. But we assure them that we're trying to fix it (it's really, really hard).
Since you have all the answers Denise, how would you verify the country a person came from in a way that would not rely on our honesty? ? I would love to be just able to say that I came from the USA so that I could buy the Jerusalem Bible. Having my credit card give my country of origin kind of removes the temptation to put that I am in the USA. Remember that it may be that the publisher not only insists that Logos verify the country but insist on a method that does not rely on our honesty.
If you must be sarcastic about Logos, try making some concrete suggestions. Kind of money where mouth is.
How about it????
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JohnB, I'm happy you believe I have all the answers. It's a complement few can aspire to.
Secondly, I don't eat money. I generally launch sushi toward my mouth. I think putting money in your mouth may well be illegal?
Third, one doesn't have to use much imagination to either (a) fix the problem or (b) let folks know why you need their identity for a free book. If indeed free Jerusalem Bibles are all the rage, I'm sure a note to the customer would not be too difficult.
Fourth, I sure wouldn't warehouse thousands (?) of cc numbers without the knowledge of free-book customers. Many sites give you the choice.
And lastly, I've been sarcastic about Logos every since the Logos4 launch. The Libronix boys were far more aware of 'customers'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Third, one doesn't have to use much imagination to either (a) fix the problem or (b) let folks know why you need their identity for a free book.
It is my understanding that Logos have told us what the problem is - (what country you come from IS required by some publishers) - and in addition it seems evident that you do not have the "imagination to provide a fix for that problem" just rather unfunny remarks.
Also once your cc details are handed over it takes very little imagination to realise that they will be kept since you are not told that they will be removed. As has been pointed out already you can remove the cc details.
I will now follow my own advice and depart.
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There are other solutions, but every solution has its problems. Traceroute for instance can determine where a computer is with regional precision, but there are ways around it - tor filters, or proxy servers, that sort of thing. I guess my point is eliminating the CC process is more complicated than we'd like to think. Can it be done? Certainly. Is there some magic button they can push to instantly activate the new storefront? nope. Especially not since they are coding their own storefront iirc.
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Well, ok. I guess John is gone now. We can mention what we were reluctant to bring up.
The answer was well hidden on the previous page of this thread ... you know the part where the Logos official said, yes, it's a problem. Yes, they can fix it (though it's not trivial). And it hasn't been fixed since it's for freeby customers. They can't meet their financial goals on fixing things for freeby customers.
Now, frankly I was hesitant to expand the point (especially when it was already brought up). But the Faithlife Corporation CEO had instructed us to 'out' any of his employees that 'promised' anything. And, well, gee ... the Logos official did say it'd be fixed 'hopefully in the next month or two' (that was six months ago).
Now, I'd argue Phil was truly hoping. It wasn't a 'promise'. But can anyone promise that hope is not a promise? I don't think so.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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