10x Price Increase on the NAS Electronic Bible Library???
The NAS Electronic Bible Library used to be priced at $29.99.
I noticed recently that the price is now $299.95!!
https://www.logos.com/product/8734/nas-electronic-bible-library
Is that a mistake?
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Must be a mistake as Lockmans are still selling it (Libronix CD version) based on a SRP of $29.95 and others are selling it for similar prices (shipping costs will make a difference !!).
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Last month it was being sold for $49.99. And was being argued as a inexpensive way to get into Logos. One that I said I would gladly recommend for anyone not being able to afford a traditional base package. I hope you are right and this is a mistake, but it honestly would not surprise me if Logos decided this deal was too good and placed it up higher. Bob has said in the past the $300 entry point was chosen because of the expense to help new users through technical support/customer service.
-Dan
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One way or the other, yes...IT IS A MISTAKE.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Dan, on the one hand, I can't believe Bob said that. And on the other (I've only 2 hands), I can. He is prone to obstruse logic.
My first Bible software I still have (PocketBible), and I think I emailed him once with a suggestion; he replied within minutes with a good answer. That was many years back.
OliveTree I emailed once when some of my resources disappeared; again a quick reply not wholely satisfactory but certainly responsive.
Accordance, they emailed me! I tried to buy a resource twice. Believe it or not I almost tried to buy it a third time (Accordances's categories are not eminently clear). Plus they don't have a Accordance University you can pay a lot to discover the obvious. Theirs are free.
And Logos, I think I called on some sort of problem many years ago, and their tech fixed it (an offending Windows file).
So '$300' as the price of entry for a 'package'? That does sound pretty Bob-ian. I wonder what happened if someone just bought a single resource and called the help desk?
Now if I worked at Logos (and being the match-ivelian that I am), I'd crank the NAS package price up due to the inclusion of concordances .... make 'em pay! 'Concordances'. Oh sure.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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David J. Wilson said:
Must be a mistake as Lockmans are still selling it (Libronix CD version) based on a SRP of $29.95 and others are selling it for similar prices
How does that make it a mistake?
If this isn't an error, it is dumb.
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Bob statement is here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/9906/83901.aspx#83901
I did misquote him somewhat, but I do not believe I misrepresented him.
Bob also explains the costs more clearly here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/88357/622779.aspx#622779
-Dan
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Just to add to Bob's defence I recently saw one person on here who had signed up for the free Faithlife Bible assuming he had the App on his phone downloaded the desktop App and was looking for help here. Now here it is users (for the most part) helping users. But it could have just as likely ended up with him calling Logos for help (all he really needed to do was add in the Lexham English Bible, so he could have some functionality on his computer Logos).
-dan
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Dan Francis said:
calling Logos for help
I would prefer Logos lower resource prices and charge for support calls.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super.Tramp said:Dan Francis said:
calling Logos for help
I would prefer Logos lower resource prices and charge for support calls.
[Y]
I'd suggest free support for a year from buying a base package (any base package; so it would be renewed for another year if you bought another base package), then free simple support calls after that (Logos gets to decide the threshold of what constitutes a "simple" support call), but anything complicated (e.g., taking 10 min or more to solve, and/or involving connecting to your computer, and/or escalating to a more knowledgeable tech support staff level; whatever criteria they want to establish), then you have to either pay-per-incident or subscribe annually to premium support which would cover as many support calls a year as you need, no matter how complicated.
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I've rarely had to call Logos support, but as much as I've spent, I would be upset if I had to pay for tech support including resources.
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Ronald Quick said:
I've rarely had to call Logos support, but as much as I've spent, I would be upset if I had to pay for tech support including resources.
I think there are a lot of us out there with the same view point!
http://hombrereformado.blogspot.com/ Solo a Dios la Gloria Apoyo
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I was sort of hinting that if Logos designed its UI better and even (gasp) provided some advice for installation / early use, a $300 minimum gate might not be necessary. I think PocketBible, OliveTree and Accordance would all go out of business with that price of entry.
I remember in the good ole days (Libby, yes), that WBC provided a man-u-al on their CD. It was quite good, fairly short, illustrated and pleasant to scan for any nifty things I didn't know. At the time, I couldn't understand how they could have produced such a man-u-al. It's just so hard to do.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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At $299.95 I would not touch it with a barge pole.
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Denise said:
if Logos designed its UI better and even (gasp) provided some advice for installation / early use
They do provide some advice for installation and early use. But if they designed their UI better and had even better free training available, then perhaps they could cut down on their support call costs. Then again, that would cost more money too, so perhaps it would be a wash.
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OK, Rosie. We're both immensely intelligent folks (for sure you; once in a blue moon me).
Let's say you needed to literally HIRE someone to write a simple, easy to use manual. And let's say that it would literally take all 40 hours of the week, 50 weeks a year, and 3 years (to include any updates). Keep in mind we're not talking chapters on how to do syntax searches etc; Dave's already on board, since he's the sole expert. Actually it's difficult to imagine how it'd take more than a week, plus maybe a week per major update. Tops.
Now compare a manual maker to a single help desk answer-er in their stable of help desk answer-ers. The one that is 'not really sure'.
Of course, being immensely intelligent, you certainly would want to put advertising in the simple manual .... nifty packages for per denomination, the fact that you offer Proclaim to many churches just like yours, and what a great magazine you print! And don't forget co-op money from publishers. Advertising to die for.
And being immensely intelligent, you'd probably want to package it as a handout at various events to demonstrate how powerful Logos is but how easy it is to learn (along with those advertisements, don't forget).
We're just not talking rocket science here. I get a short manual for my iron from Walmart. An manual for our coffeemaker. An 80 page manual for one of our synths that costs less than the OP mentioned for NAS (and fewer customers as well). Printed no less. In 6 languages.
And I haven't even STARTED on the benefits at a Bible college or seminary. Or the ability for Logos fangirls to hand them out to their friends. Whoa!
Did I mention 6 languages .... like Korean, Chinese, German, .... there must be at least 2 more. I forget.
Yes, it's true .... blue moons are not very frequent.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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David Paul said:
One way or the other, yes...IT IS A MISTAKE.
Or perhaps the mistake was ours ... by drawing Logos' attention to it.
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Allen Browne said:David Paul said:
One way or the other, yes...IT IS A MISTAKE.
Or perhaps the mistake was ours ... by drawing Logos' attention to it.
I refuse to accept the guilt if Logos decides to shoot the puppy I called cute. It is THEIR mistake, not ours.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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The price increase coming so quickly after the thread pointing out the product as a great intro to Logos seems more than a coincidence.
The price being clearly out-of-line with the contents and previous pricing seems to indicate it's a mistake.
How-some-ever if I were Lockman and had licensed this to Logos I might be concerned that they didn't seem interested in actually selling the product if they raised the price this much. Might be they can do nothing about it.
It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. I hope it doesn't resemble a preschool problem where the biggest kid ends up with all the blocks. I hope it's all just a mistake, that Logos meant to list it at $29.99.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Denise said:
OK, Rosie. We're both immensely intelligent folks (for sure you; once in a blue moon me).
Let's say you needed to literally HIRE someone to write a simple, easy to use manual. And let's say that it would literally take all 40 hours of the week, 50 weeks a year, and 3 years (to include any updates). Keep in mind we're not talking chapters on how to do syntax searches etc; Dave's already on board, since he's the sole expert. Actually it's difficult to imagine how it'd take more than a week, plus maybe a week per major update. Tops.
Now compare a manual maker to a single help desk answer-er in their stable of help desk answer-ers. The one that is 'not really sure'.
Of course, being immensely intelligent, you certainly would want to put advertising in the simple manual .... nifty packages for per denomination, the fact that you offer Proclaim to many churches just like yours, and what a great magazine you print! And don't forget co-op money from publishers. Advertising to die for.
And being immensely intelligent, you'd probably want to package it as a handout at various events to demonstrate how powerful Logos is but how easy it is to learn (along with those advertisements, don't forget).
We're just not talking rocket science here. I get a short manual for my iron from Walmart. An manual for our coffeemaker. An 80 page manual for one of our synths that costs less than the OP mentioned for NAS (and fewer customers as well). Printed no less. In 6 languages.
And I haven't even STARTED on the benefits at a Bible college or seminary. Or the ability for Logos fangirls to hand them out to their friends. Whoa!
Did I mention 6 languages .... like Korean, Chinese, German, .... there must be at least 2 more. I forget.
Yes, it's true .... blue moons are not very frequent.
You're on a complete tangent to what was being discussed in this thread and what I said. I'm 100% in agreement with you and others that Logos should provide a free easy-to-use manual. Full stop. Nothing in my posts above negated that. You just wasted your time defending that to me in a rather patronizing way. I wasn't talking about manuals at all or defending Logos for its current policy of not offering them for free. Don't know where you got that idea.
What I actually said was: #1 agreed (via thumbs-up) that Logos should lower resource prices. #2 nuanced someone's else's proposal that Logos should charge for support calls; I don't think they should charge for basic support, but I suggested they could possibly charge for only the top-end most expensive support calls, but keep it free for the majority of calls. #3 I suggested that they could eliminate many of the easier support calls by providing better documentation (i.e., free manual would go a long way to helping there).
I actually would prefer that Logos keep all support calls free, I was merely entering into the dialogue with someone who suggested all support calls should be paid for if that could bring resource prices down. I don't have any dog in this fight, so it wasn't worth your effort coming back at me like you did. And it probably wasn't wort my effort explaining myself either, because (a) I don't care about it one way or the other and (b) you'll probably find some reason to snark back at me anyway. So g'day. I'm off this thread.
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elnwood said:
The NAS Electronic Bible Library used to be priced at $29.99.
I noticed recently that the price is now $299.95!!
https://www.logos.com/product/8734/nas-electronic-bible-library
Is that a mistake?
Sorry about this. There was some internal miscommunication. We'll get this sorted out soon.
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Sorry, Rosie. Snark-time (your words). Read your last line in your previous post. I was talking a manual; you changed my flow.
Producing a small manual is a peanuty operation .... I suspect a good portion of the forum has done it at least once (and me many times). It's not in the ballpark of running a significant help desk operation.
And it was Dan that made the point on help-desk costs relative to Bob (which I queried and he confirmed).
And it was you that responded to me.
So, I'll return to my point .... Bob pointing to help desk costs (multiple times) and then associating with high start-costs for package introduction, fails in the light of his policy of limited user guidance. Discussing user charges relative to resource pricing is a canard.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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If you do a quick search on Google you can find this package (for Libronix) for under $19... not including postage etc.
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woof, thats a steep price increase. I notice its still 300$
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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http://hombrereformado.blogspot.com/ Solo a Dios la Gloria Apoyo
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The $299 seems reasonable, since in print, it's $500. What a deal! The Amazon price of $27 looks suspiciously correct.
But what caused me to hit the delete button was the 7 publishers. There's only 2. I get the feeling there was quite a bit of 'miscommunication'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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NAS Electronic Bible Library
It still there and still $299.95 i did a search and it is there but one can not have a ink to it for some bizarre reason.... But if you search for the above you do find it...
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
It still there and still $299.95 i did a search and it is there at the link above....
When I click on the link, I get a "sorry" message. When I search "NAS," I see the package listed, but clicking on the link produces the "sorry" message as well.
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Same for me.alabama24 said:Dan Francis said:It still there and still $299.95 i did a search and it is there at the link above....
When I click on the link, I get a "sorry" message. When I search "NAS," I see the package listed, but clicking on the link produces the "sorry" message as well.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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It's there when you search but there is no product page and it cannot be added to cart.
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As soon as I tried clicking my post and found it wouldn't work I modified my original post... it is searchable.. for whatever reason links to it are invalid but searching NAS Library brings it up and from the search page it opens up...
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
As soon as I tried clicking my post and found it wouldn't work I modified my original post... it is searchable.. for whatever reason links to it are invalid but searching NAS Library brings it up and from the search page it opens up...
-Dan
We’re sorry!
We couldn’t find that product.
Please try browsing our products on the left or searching for keywords in the box above.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Searching brings it up, but clicking on it results in the posted error.
Guessing you have a cached copy on your machine, that mine lacks?L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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That could be... I would would say most definitely now after opening up Chrome browser and got the same results as you.
[:(]
-Dan
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Found an old Libronix copy of this still sealed in the plastic for free at my schools "share shop".
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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I honestly have no idea. It is counter productive to people buying a traditional Base package. You are left in this collection with mostly older reference works but you have original language support. This collection was a bargain and a great way for anyone to get into Logos. I would recommend people wanting a good starting point in Logos for under $100 seek out the CDROM since it can easily be found for under $30. I hope Logos brings it back, at a reasonable price. Stating that buying the books would be over $500 is more than a bit deceptive since the vast majority of the works are in public domain (in reality old books can be dirt cheap, or exceptionally expensive). It does not surprise me that it got pulled but I do find it sad.
-Dan
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Phil Gons said:elnwood said:
The NAS Electronic Bible Library used to be priced at $29.99.
I noticed recently that the price is now $299.95!!
https://www.logos.com/product/8734/nas-electronic-bible-library
Is that a mistake?
Sorry about this. There was some internal miscommunication. We'll get this sorted out soon.
So FaithLife sorted it into the trash? Solved the problem by not offering it? [:^)] It was a very good starter package. [:D], I am a logos user now because I first bought Compublia 2.0 and then saw the LBLA offered with the NASB Lib. Oh well all good things must come to an end. [:'(]
http://hombrereformado.blogspot.com/ Solo a Dios la Gloria Apoyo
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Did Faithlife ever offer an full explanation about what happened to this?
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No, my suspicion is that it was too good a value, and offered new logos users without enough investment to cover their technical calls. This has been the logic for having an entry point of $300... while this package does not offer what a package will it does have enough to make a vast number of users happy. Last i checked it was fairly easy to find the CDROm version of this for as cheap as $19 so it is still a good option for new users albeit a more circuitous route to get into Logos.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:
No, my suspicion is that it was too good a value, and offered new logos users without enough investment to cover their technical calls. This has been the logic for having an entry point of $300... while this package does not offer what a package will it does have enough to make a vast number of users happy. Last i checked it was fairly easy to find the CDROm version of this for as cheap as $19 so it is still a good option for new users albeit a more circuitous route to get into Logos.
-Dan
Thanks Dan. It sounds like your suspicions are probably correct.
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