LOGOS: This is unacceptable!

1) 4 days is not an acceptable advance warning for a $199.95 prepub!

I can come up with that kind of money in that kind of time if I want to, but not everyone can. Some people may not even check their e-mail in time to see it.

2) The exchange rate is exceptionally high, the discount on the product page is rather low, and I don't particularly need it right now, so I decided to cancel for the time being.

However, being diligent, I first did some searching. Only after quite a while did I suddenly find an Academic Blog post stating that the price will go up to $249.95 after shipping today! That should have been posted as a Reg.: price on the product page the moment you decided it! People who consider last minute cancellations have a right to know that their price will go up $50 and not $20.

3) Given that you've had much of the text available for a looong time, why is there still no See Inside feature to help people decide?

4) There should also have been a 'You ordered this for $xxx on xx/xx/xx' message. And grey buttons.

(And, yes, I know that in one sense there has been plenty of advance warning for this, in a vague kind of way, but I would think that those who have put it off until now are precisely the people who are the least likely to follow forum threads and blogs about it, and/or the least likely to be able to come up with a large sum of money in a very short time.)

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Comments

DMB

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I think I've bought this one 3 or 4 times and refunded it 2 or 3 times. I was really thinking I'd be forced to refund it again next Monday if it didn't ship today or tomorrow (I don't do 'massive updates'; I can't believe Logos is so stupid).

All your points above are so 'Logos' (I hate to say 'Faithlife' since supplement companies are considerably more customer oriented). The point about the 'See Inside' feature is frustrating (yet one more video is their solution); I think Steve (Dr Steve) really battled his way through this resource (personal challenges in his life, as I understand). I'd think Logos Marketing could at least take care of their own, when a major accomplishment is finished up.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642798#Comment_642798

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I think I've bought this one 3 or 4 times and refunded it 2 or 3 times. I was really thinking I'd be forced to refund it again next Monday if it didn't ship today or tomorrow (I don't do 'massive updates'; I can't believe Logos is so stupid).

All your points above are so 'Logos' (I hate to say 'Faithlife' since supplement companies are considerably more customer oriented). The point about the 'See Inside' feature is frustrating (yet one more video is their solution); I think Steve (Dr Steve) really battled his way through this resource (personal challenges in his life, as I understand). I'd think Logos Marketing could at least take care of their own, when a major accomplishment is finished up.

[|-)]

If you don't want to do a massive update then don't. Nobody is forcing you to. What's wrong with a video?

William Gabriel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642812#Comment_642812

If you don't want to do a massive update then don't. Nobody is forcing you to. What's wrong with a video?

If you ever want to buy and use another Logos product again, then you'll be forced to. I'm not picking a side on the "big update issue", but you can't get out of it by avoiding it.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642820#Comment_642820

If you don't want to do a massive update then don't. Nobody is forcing you to. What's wrong with a video?

If you ever want to buy and use another Logos product again, then you'll be forced to. I'm not picking a side on the "big update issue", but you can't get out of it by avoiding it.

This is true, but I was making the point that it is not forced. It is definitely option with implications. I will also say I don't understand any reason to not do the massive update, makes no logical sense. We get updates to resources all the time, do we complain about those too? Or is it just the "massive" ones?

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642828#Comment_642828

some of our number are afflicted by dialup; coffee shops are opposed to setting up your desktop in their dining rooms.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642832#Comment_642832

some of our number are afflicted by dialup; coffee shops are opposed to setting up your desktop in their dining rooms.

For those unfortunate folks I would assume Logos is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain.... [:(]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642834#Comment_642834

some of our number are afflicted by dialup; coffee shops are opposed to setting up your desktop in their dining rooms.

For those unfortunate folks I would assume Logos is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain....

That is my understanding.

Praising God for the ability to use my roommates wifi.

Bob Pritchett

1) 4 days is not an acceptable advance warning

I'll talk to the team and see if we can work on lengthening that window in the future. There are just so many books and projects moving ahead it's sometimes hard to predict when something will be completed, and when it is, we hate delaying shipping it since many people are waiting for it.

3) Given that you've had much of the text available for a looong time, why is there still no See Inside feature to help people decide?

This is a bundle of six volumes, and we don't yet support 'See inside' for bundles. (It's an interface problem -- some bundles have hundreds of books, and would then need hundreds of see inside buttons, or a user interface to select which one, etc.) We're working on this -- it's one of many improvements to Logos.com planned. (We need to 'componentize' our product pages, so the books inside a bundle can have programmatic features attached to their descriptions. Right now it's just a block of manually assembled HTML.)

4) There should also have been a 'You ordered this for $xxx on xx/xx/xx' message. And grey buttons.

Thanks, this is a good idea. We'll look to add it in the future.

I am sorry for the inconvenience,

-- Bob

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642850#Comment_642850

Thanks for replying.

I'll talk to the team and see if we can work on lengthening that window in the future. There are just so many books and projects moving ahead it's sometimes hard to predict when something will be completed, and when it is, we hate delaying shipping it since many people are waiting for it.

You don't need to lengthen the normal window (about 14 days), just stick to it. In this case the blog was posted 10 days before shipping, so you clearly knew both the date and the new price before that. You just didn't send out the e-mail. And the impatient could have downloaded it any day they wanted for the last 2 years. The only preorders remaining at this point are those who do want to wait, for one reason or another.

This is a bundle of six volumes, and we don't yet support 'See inside' for bundles.

Didn't think about that! Yet, for a product like this, there really should be a way to see beforehand what we get.

Thanks, this is a good idea. We'll look to add it in the future.

It wasn't an idea. It was more of a bug report. You already do this for all other CP's and prepubs where the price has gone up since ordering. You just missed it on this product page.

Kevin Maples

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642850#Comment_642850

I am sorry for the inconvenience,

-- Bob

From what other company of Faithlife's stature would you get a direct response from the CEO! I understand there are frustrations sometimes, but overall this is an incredible company. Let's give them some slack every once and a while.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642870#Comment_642870

I am sorry for the inconvenience,

-- Bob

From what other company of Faithlife's stature would you get a direct response from the CEO! I understand there are frustrations sometimes, but overall this is an incredible company. Let's give them some slack every once and a while.

Agreed

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642870#Comment_642870

[Y]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642870#Comment_642870

Let's give them some slack every once and a while.

Every once and a while? They already give themselves at least a thousand times more slack than any other company I do business with. They don't need more slack. They need considerably less!

I bought Logos to use it, not to work for free for them. But that's essentially what I've been doing for the last 4 years.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642880#Comment_642880

Let's give them some slack every once and a while.

Every once and a while? They already give themselves at least a thousand times more slack than any other company I do business with. They don't need more slack. They need considerably less!

I bought Logos to use it, not to work for free for them. But that's essentially what I've been doing for the last 4 years.

Which is your choice.....

Michael McLane

I am confused by this bundle altogether. I had seen it on pre-pub earlier. However, I have had this in my library for some time. The "add to cart" button has even been greyed out for me. The "covers" looked different.

Is this a re-branding, packaging, or are they adding or updating? Will i automatically get the update?

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642885#Comment_642885

Which is your choice.....

No, it's not! If I don't report the bugs that I find, I may save some time, but it doesn't make me any more able to use Logos. Unreported bugs don't get fixed. (In fact, all too often reported bugs don't get fixed either. Or even noticed.)

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642891#Comment_642891

Which is your choice.....

No, it's not! If I don't report the bugs that I find, I may save some time, but it doesn't make me any more able to use Logos. Unreported bugs don't get fixed. (In fact, all too often reported bugs don't get fixed either. Or even noticed.)

I understand that, but nobody forces you to do so. There are also plenty of others, me being one of them, that report bugs as well. That doesn't equate "working" for Logos.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642898#Comment_642898

Michael ... as the little blurb on the product page indicates (and indeed occurs), if you already bought the package, they ship you the updates until it's finished (presumably today). You just sit back and enjoy. So I will be scanning my downloads for a finished OT discourse (2 update files likely).

EDIT: I just received 4 Hebrew Discourse files. They're all the earlier Bible sections (i.e. missing 1CH up to Isaiah). Hopefully Steve will write really fast before tomorrow.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642898#Comment_642898

It looks like I already bought this as part of a purchase on a payment plan. There's often more than one way to get something and not to shatter your budget.

Logos usually posts dates in your order information before they send emails. But I agree it's often not always convenient, like that avalanche with Baker releases not so long ago.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642898#Comment_642898

David ... you're not going to get too far with that argument. fgh along with Dave, do a lot more bug detection and follow-up that most everybody.

And it's silly for a user to whack another user that tries to improve the product bug-wise, saying 'Oh ... I'll find your bugs; not to worry.' The bugs she finds are the ones she's having a problem with ... else you'd have already got the job done. But you didn't.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/642798#Comment_642798

(...Logos is so stupid).

Wow, talk about personal insults! I'm glad we're all humans, but it's amazing how I was given a fit when I mentioned Unix's stupid comment and gave him advice about not to have a "mediocre mentality" yet I was accused of getting personal with him and insulting him when I never did.

Anyway, that's why we should never cast the first stone, because sooner or later you'll be guilty of the same thing you accuse others of doing...LOL

Talk about double standards...LOL...Anyway, it is what it is -- it's all fun and games and I'm sure nobody really means any harm. So don't take it personal. [;)]

DAL

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/643081#Comment_643081

DAL, I find myself unable to believe no one means any harm ... assuming reasonable mental health and socialization, I'd have to attribute such a level of stupidity as to be a serious statistical anomaly ...[:P]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/643081#Comment_643081

DAL ... you're confusing 'stupid' with 'stupid'. There's a big difference.

In the first (as used in corporate land), a company proceeds forward with immense amounts of marketing while simulataneously convincing potential and actual customers that they need to cough up to play ball. Like building a mountain so you can climb it. If a nameless (Old Testament significance) CEO slowed down building the mountain, maybe it'd be easier to climb.

Now the other 'stupid' is simply culture. As you well know, I'm pretty stupid. And I've pointed this out many times with concrete examples that satisfy exegetical skills of even the most mundane. Unix, I don't put in the same category. Unix is sincere. And so are you. But neither of you are stupid.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/643087#Comment_643087

DAL ... you're confusing 'stupid' with 'stupid'. There's a big difference.

In the first (as used in corporate land), a company proceeds forward with immense amounts of marketing while simulataneously convincing potential and actual customers that they need to cough up to play ball. Like building a mountain so you can climb it. If a nameless (Old Testament significance) CEO slowed down building the mountain, maybe it'd be easier to climb.

Now the other 'stupid' is simply culture. As you well know, I'm pretty stupid. And I've pointed this out many times with concrete examples that satisfy exegetical skills of even the most mundane. Unix, I don't put in the same category. Unix is sincere. And so are you. But neither of you are stupid.

We're all stupid...only on different subjects/scenarios (I replaced ignorant with stupid). Like Forrest Gump said, "Stupid is, stupid does..." LOL I still get a kick out of that line when I watch that movie (Old time favorite).

DAL

Ted Weis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/643088#Comment_643088

I cancelled my pre-order not because of a four day notice, but because I'm out of money