Responding to frustrated posts
I almost responded poorly to the "WARNING: DO NOT BUY LOGOS 4" thread earlier today. I had an edit box open, ready to give detailed arguments on why brother Preston was wrong in his frustration and to perhaps offer some help. Then I thought better of it... and I'm glad I did not post what I was intending. Every time I do that, I'm glad. Here are some observations I've had about frustrated posters.
- Frustrated people have often tried most of the initial suggestions that we will offer.
- Their experience trumps our experience (it's no consolation that I don't have crashes or good tech support experience to someone who can't use Logos).
- Defending Logos vigorously often backfires, suddenly we become valid targets of their frustration.
- Levity is usually not appreciated.
- They often feel like they are attacked.
So in response to frustrated posters I recommend "I'm sorry you haven't got the help from Logos that you need." and then proceed with the troubleshooting and just ignore what feels like inflammatory comments... even if steam is rolling (metaphorically) from their ears 
.
Remember, Logos frequently responds to frustrated customers and issues that we can't handle with grace and speed; all that's left is our recriminations over poor communication.
Prov. 15:23
Comments
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Amen! Good advice.
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Yes, you are right. I also was tempted to write something, but I am glad I didn't. Still, I have to say it lefts me speechless how far can frustration over just a piece of software (although the best one in the world) get some Christians. Logos on the other hand again proved to me that they are both Christian and professional [Y]
Bohuslav
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Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Kevin Becker said:
and I'm glad I did not post what I was intending. Every time I do that, I'm glad.
So much better to be glad than sorry. You can tell the latter by the deleted posts in their wake (like me [:$] )
Your observations are good. My personal satisfaction and lack of problems does not give much consolation. I'll try to keep that to my self and hear them out.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Kevin Becker said:
I almost responded poorly to the "WARNING: DO NOT BUY LOGOS 4" thread earlier today. I had an edit box open, ready to give detailed arguments on why brother Preston was wrong in his frustration and to perhaps offer some help. Then I thought better of it... and I'm glad I did not post what I was intending. Every time I do that, I'm glad.
....
Remember, Logos frequently responds to frustrated customers and issues that we can't handle with grace and speed; all that's left is our recriminations over poor communication.
Looks like Logos has deleted that thread. (I couldn't find it, so I searched for it on Google by its title and clicked the link that it found, but reached this page: http://community.logos.com/msgs/default.aspx?MessageID=6)
Normally I am not in favor of that drastic a move, but in this case it was a good idea. Perhaps it was the original who requested they delete it. In any event, I'm very glad that frustrated customer's issue was resolved so quickly.
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Rosie Perera said:
Normally I am not in favor of that drastic a move, but in this case it was a good idea. Perhaps it was the original who requested they delete it. In any event, I'm very glad that frustrated customer's issue was resolved so quickly.
yes, the poster requested that his post be taken down.
Prov. 15:23
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IMO, the OP (of the other thread) wanted to provoke an argument. He was angry. He was frustrated. He sought revenge against Logos for the perceived slight. (Thus, the belligerent title and content of his thread.) I, for one, did not appreciate the malice aforethought. I know we all make mistakes. (I certainly do.) Still, I hope the OP, in addition to issuing an apology to everyone, will think twice before making such a post again.
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Then again, I have little patience for spam and self-promotion for gain.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I just ignore the post and do not respond. I prefer to respond to those people ask for help without the drama. I do appreciate those gifted with patience and understanding that are able to deal with the drama. I sometimes feel as though Logos folks should be the only ones responding to the most extreme posts.
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Kevin Becker said:
- Frustrated people have often tried most of the initial suggestions that we will offer.
- Their experience trumps our experience (it's no consolation that I don't have crashes or good tech support experience to someone who can't use Logos).
- Defending Logos vigorously often backfires, suddenly we become valid targets of their frustration.
- Levity is usually not appreciated.
- They often feel like they are attacked.
So in response to frustrated posters I recommend "I'm sorry you haven't got the help from Logos that you need." and then proceed with the troubleshooting and just ignore what feels like inflammatory comments... even if steam is rolling (metaphorically) from their ears.
Amen! Thanks for the reminder. How quickly that came up & dissipated!
Rosie Perera said:Looks like Logos has deleted that thread.
Apparently, I got to finish reading, right before it was deleted. Though I'm not sorry the thread title was removed, I am sorry the thread is gone--because it demonstrated what we've all experienced: Logos' consistent grace & excellence in taking care of user concerns. Dan's response was powerful, & I wish we still had it.
Many blessings to you all, Friends!
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Richard DeRuiter said:
Then again, I have little patience for spam and self-promotion for gain.
I agree, but that's an entirely different issue. I would have been happy if she had just said, I just finished a book and Logos was very helpful, thanks, Logos! If I was curious about what she wrote Google would have let me find it just fine. The book picture and the web link were too much.
Prov. 15:23
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PaulStrickert said:
I, for one, did not appreciate the malice aforethought.
Who exactly was he planning on murdering?
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John Fidel said:
I do appreciate those gifted with patience and understanding that are able to deal with the drama. I sometimes feel as though Logos folks should be the only ones responding to the most extreme posts.
John, that is such a good idea!
I know
Richard DeRuiter has been very gracious in reprimanding me when I needed it. Most of us get rather emotionally invested in our posts and forget the points Kevin mentions in the original post of this thread. (btw: Thank you again Richard for your pastoral heart.)Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Damian McGrath said:PaulStrickert said:
I, for one, did not appreciate the malice aforethought.
Who exactly was he planning on murdering?
I used the expression in the sense of "malicious intent." But then again, you knew that.
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Kevin Becker said:
Frustrated people have often tried most of the initial suggestions that we will offer.
Their experience trumps our experience (it's no consolation that I don't have crashes or good tech support experience to someone who can't use Logos).
Defending Logos vigorously often backfires, suddenly we become valid targets of their frustration.
Levity is usually not appreciated.
They often feel like they are attacked.Kevin,
I agree with you completely. I have read posts on this forum that come from lay preachers who have had to admit they did not mean to be "a smart _ _ _" in their responses. And read through comments that consist of verbal fights over who can write code the best, and have been doing it for the longest, etc.
In my simplistic mind these types of threads are not productive or useful for Logos users who want to learn about a bug, submit a suggestion, or state what they miss about L3 in features, speed, etc.
I speak from experience, because a handout I "accidently" created in L4 during a passage guide search caused L4 to lock up two minutes into the program, every time. And this forum provided answers and suggestions from how to create a log, dissected the log, and suggested a fix. I deleted the "suspected handout" and restarted L4 and everything has ran fine since.
Keep up the "good" posting.
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As a wise man said, "I never regretted anything I didn't say." Well, almost never.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Kevin Becker said:
I almost responded poorly to the "WARNING: DO NOT BUY LOGOS 4" thread earlier today. I had an edit box open, ready to give detailed arguments on why brother Preston was wrong in his frustration and to perhaps offer some help. Then I thought better of it... and I'm glad I did not post what I was intending. Every time I do that, I'm glad. Here are some observations I've had about frustrated posters.
- Frustrated people have often tried most of the initial suggestions that we will offer.
- Their experience trumps our experience (it's no consolation that I don't have crashes or good tech support experience to someone who can't use Logos).
- Defending Logos vigorously often backfires, suddenly we become valid targets of their frustration.
- Levity is usually not appreciated.
- They often feel like they are attacked.
So in response to frustrated posters I recommend "I'm sorry you haven't got the help from Logos that you need." and then proceed with the troubleshooting and just ignore what feels like inflammatory comments... even if steam is rolling (metaphorically) from their ears
.Remember, Logos frequently responds to frustrated customers and issues that we can't handle with grace and speed; all that's left is our recriminations over poor communication.
Thank you so much for posting this! I have been wanting to write something similar for a long time. But as one who had my share of initial frustrations and who butted heads with a few of you I feared my posting something similar would be seen as sour grapes.
I can speak only to myself, but I found many of the responses I was receiving less than helpful. By end of first week of Logos' launch, I was so frustrated I was about to walk away from Logos for good, and this is after investing $1000s of dollars and many years using their products. Years of good will towards Logos as a company was almost destroyed in a space of but five days. The turn around point for me was when I realized I was reacting more to users on the forum than I was to Logos as a company or the software itself. Although I was not pleased with how L4 was launched, I realized that was water under the bridge and the product itself had great potently.
The irony in all this is that many of those who are trying to help Logos are in fact causing great harm to Logos. As a rule of thumb we should always ask ourselves, "If I were working for Logos Customer Service how would they expect me to respond?" I have yet to see any official Logos employee respond in an inappropriate manner. Sadly, I have seen numerous examples of users responding to frustrated users in an inappropriate manner.
Of course, no one can tell any of us how we must treat our fellow users, but if we truly want to be helpful to Logos we should be very careful in how we respond. It does not help Logos for users on the forum to throw fuel on the fire of an emotionally charged situation.
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P. Keith Larson said:
Of course, no one can tell any of us how we must treat our fellow users,
IMHO Keith, someone already has told us how to treat our fellow users... I think the appropriate reference is in my signature. But I am not qualified to throw stones either.
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Good job, Kevin, at holding your tongue.
I recall someone who told me about when you are going to send a nasty note or letter.
Write the letter. Then start over and write it again. Do this five times. Then throw away the first four drafts.
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P. Keith Larson said:
Thank you so much for posting this! I have been wanting to write something similar for a long time. But as one who had my share of initial frustrations and who butted heads with a few of you I feared my posting something similar would be seen as sour grapes.
I can speak only to myself, but I found many of the responses I was receiving less than helpful. By end of first week of Logos' launch, I was so frustrated I was about to walk away from Logos for good, and this is after investing $1000s of dollars and many years using their products. Years of good will towards Logos as a company was almost destroyed in a space of but five days. The turn around point for me was when I realized I was reacting more to users on the forum than I was to Logos as a company or the software itself. Although I was not pleased with how L4 was launched, I realized that was water under the bridge and the product itself had great potently.
The irony in all this is that many of those who are trying to help Logos are in fact causing great harm to Logos. As a rule of thumb we should always ask ourselves, "If I were working for Logos Customer Service how would they expect me to respond?" I have yet to see any official Logos employee respond in an inappropriate manner. Sadly, I have seen numerous examples of users responding to frustrated users in an inappropriate manner.
Of course, no one can tell any of us how we must treat our fellow users, but if we truly want to be helpful to Logos we should be very careful in how we respond. It does not help Logos for users on the forum to throw fuel on the fire of an emotionally charged situation.
I am completely 100% with you on this. My thoughts on this matter have been expressed well through your post[Y]
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Kevin Becker said:
Here are some observations I've had about frustrated posters.
- Frustrated people have often tried most of the initial suggestions that we will offer.
- Their experience trumps our experience (it's no consolation that I don't have crashes or good tech support experience to someone who can't use Logos).
- Defending Logos vigorously often backfires, suddenly we become valid targets of their frustration.
- Levity is usually not appreciated.
- They often feel like they are attacked.
These are superb observations. Had you posted them a couple of years ago, I might have been spared some painful lessons (Probably not, as I tend to be pig-headed and have to learn the hard way). I have been a frustrated poster, one who responded harshly to frustrated posters, and now hopefully a bit more helpful poster.
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Dan Sheppard said:
I recall someone who told me about when you are going to send a nasty note or letter.
Write the letter. Then start over and write it again. Do this five times. Then throw away the first four drafts.
[E] Then mail that final draft to yourself!
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
Then mail that final draft to yourself!Amen. Too often, I find that Job 13:5 is speaking to me.[:$]
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Let me address this topic from a user who wants help with either hardware, software, or learning how to use various features of L4. I have learned in the past several months to get the best answers and those that are supported and to get them quickly, to put "Logos please answer" in the title bar so that a Logos tech answers my post. If it is related to a resource, then I call CS and if it is about how to use the program, I hit the forums, peruse, or view videos. I cannot keep up with the sheer number of posts; the numerous threads are overwhelming with information. So, I choose to focus on just one issue at a time. God bless!
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Kevin Becker said:
Here are some observations I've had about frustrated posters.
- Frustrated people have often tried most of the initial suggestions that we will offer.
- Their experience trumps our experience (it's no consolation that I don't have crashes or good tech support experience to someone who can't use Logos).
- Defending Logos vigorously often backfires, suddenly we become valid targets of their frustration.
- Levity is usually not appreciated.
- They often feel like they are attacked.
So in response to frustrated posters I recommend "I'm sorry you haven't got the help from Logos that you need." and then proceed with the troubleshooting and just ignore what feels like inflammatory comments... even if steam is rolling (metaphorically) from their ears
.Very good points, Kevin.
Ignore the rhetoric and try to answer the question. If there isn't a question then I ignore it. There are posters (pastors!?) like Rich and yourself that provide good responses to stuff I ignore! I was very tempted recently to provide a "sharp" response to a user who continued the rhetoric over several posts. I opened the dialog box but then went to bed. The urge simply disappeared overnight and I closed the box!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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