Initial impressions

Ken McGuire

I am in the DVD group and so to a large extent am still impatiently waiting and watching you all have fun with it.  However, I have put it on a test machine that didn't have any copy of Logos on it before.

1)  Even with only the new resources, Indexing took a bit longer than I expected.  I am a bit nervous about how long it will take on my 2000 or so resources when I get to install it for real.

2) I am too used to Option Keylink.  While Prioritize Resource is probably easier that setting various buried menu options, one great thing about version 3 was how you could set default resources for just about every category.

3) I set my favorite Bible to NRSV and then tried various reports on Mark 8.22.  Passage guide was near useless without any additional resources.  Exegetical Guide was a bit better, but I am anxious to see it with an actual Library.  I do wish the bare Beta setup included some dictionary or something, but I will certainly have that when I put it on my normal machine.

4) I ran an BWS on typhlos by clicking on it in the Exegetical Guide.  Some things looked cool - I liked the LXX translation information.  However I was shocked when after giving my gramatical usage information in the last "Textual Searches" box it listed 0 hits in 0 verses for the New Testament.  I actually got this a few times before I prioritized a version of NA27.  Then I got hits for this search.

5) I'm not so impressed with the new Home Page.  Was a bit frustrated that I couldn't figure out how to change the Lectionary from the Catholic Lectionary (personal pet peave - I wish you called it Roman Catholic instead of just Catholic) to the Revised Common Lectionary. 

6)  It was kinda interesting that RCL is now a book, but where it says "Today's Reading" on the title page it is not (yet?) a link to Today's Reading.

7) I like the way in theory Reverse Interlinears are integrated into the main resource, but have not yet gotten used to how you do it.  We will see.  I do wish NRSV had OT information like the other Bibles.

8) Not happy at reports that 4.0 will not read Logos 2.x or pbb books.  I can understand this not being in early Betas, but really think the production version should be able to at least READ the whole library.

9) While I understand that I had not set priorities on various resources, I would think that Libronix's exegetical guide would be smart enough to know that the NRSV was not based upon the Byzantine text when I got to the Word by Word section.

Ken McGuire

Damian McGrath

Kenneth,

wrt...

2) I am not convinced that "prioritising" is easier than keylinking resources. ..

4) I have experienced the lack of "textual searches" across the board, even after prioritising the NA27. Why can it find something in the Apostolic Fathers but not in NA27. Before I prioritised the NA27, it appeared to be searching a modern greek bible (very strange). I also get no hits for the LXX. Am I supposed to prioritise a resource there as well???

8) As I've mentioned, I can use the Oxford Biblical Commentary. It was the only Logos 2.x book in my library.  It is also searchable. I wonder if there is a known list of books which do not work in 4.0 - such a list was made available during beta testing of the Mac version.

Ken McGuire

I got the DVD on Friday and must say that it is a LOT harder to both follow all the forum posts as well as play with 4.0 and work in other hobbies now.

1) Indexing speed was not as fast as I hoped with my real library, but not as bad as I feared.  Basically it took overnight.  I suppose I can live with it, especially since it can use the OLD index while creating a new one, but the production version must include an index for the standard collections.  People who get the box will want to play with it without that much wait.

2) While I understand that just picking your favorite books is simpler to newbies, you might want a few separate piles.  For example, if you pick a commentary above a Bible, Bible verse pop-ups seem to give the commentary instead.  Also some of the results in especially Word Studies seem to be very dependent on what exactly you have picked in what order.

3) Passage Guide...  While there is a place for reading the Bible with a favorite commentary, I really wish the Commentary section were below some other information so that commentaries can be a reality check instead of a way of avoiding doing my exegetical homework.  I suspect that I can do this for myself, but just wish the default were different.  In the Libronix 3.0 PG, the part I used the most was in searching various collections, but I haven't really set this up yet.  In fact, I have concentrated on the auto generated reports so far in the Beta and have not played with searches really.  I did like the way I can get previews by mousing over links.

Exegetical Guide was better with actual resources.  Like in the Passage Guide, I liked getting the previews by mousing over.  However, I do wish that there was a "more" key to show more lexical information instead of just the top three.  I am anxious for it to give more than one verse of word by word, but that is still on your official to-do list.

4) BWS looks good with the exception of Textual Searches.  This is noted in the Beta 1 notes, so I will leave it at that, other than to say that this needs to be stable in the production version.  With the Preposition Chart, I basically liked it, but it was wider than the window it was in.  Can this be resized so I can see the whole thing at whatever scale I choose?

One thing I really miss from 3.0 is the option of setting preferences for each language of if you want it transliterated or not.  While I saw some of this default font and transliteration information in 4.0, I did not see where I can pick which I want - real text or transliterated.  My Hebrew is so close to non-existent, I really want this crutch.  Also, the interlinear line information settings should be more obvious so we need only display the lines we need with settings remembered language wide.  For example, if I say I don't need transliterations in NRSV rev Interlinear, I shouldn't see them in NA27 or Philo or whatever.

5) Home Page is a bit better when it has actual books to work with, but I wish I could click on an "article" I have read in the "newspaper" and it would be replaced the next time I started up.  I was eventually told how to change the Lectionary, but this is not obvious and needs to be improved for the release.  However, the fact that Phil Gons said it couldn't be done in Beta 1 after someone had figured out how to do it in Beta 1 makes me think that you know this already and it will be better.  Right now the "Customize" options are rather limited...

6 & 7 Playing with the Lectionaries as much as I did has impressed me with the power of your book within a book   Changing my favorite books can drastically change what is displayed when I read the Lectionary book.  On the other hand, while the RI's work well with Passage Guide, they don't work so well with us humans.  At the very least, please make an option to resize the various sections.  I would prefer however, that the display were more like 3.0 or the book form, with, of course, the option to display only the lines I want/need at the time.

8)  I am down to only the Oxford Commentary in LLS format in my library, other than old help files and quick start info that I really don't care about.  The Oxford does display when I try to read it.  However, it is no longer listed in the commentary section of the Passage Guide.  I want it in the passage guide, but can live with the way things are now.  I am glad to hear Bob say that PBB's will be supported somehow eventually and really think SOME sollution should be in the production version.  Logos has made a big deal about the reliablity of digital books in their system... 

10) Garbage In, Garbage Out.

While the tags in the library show potential, there are some issues with many books being taged in less than ideally.  This is admittedly a problem with just about any database, but when I tried ot create an English Bible collection, "type:Bible lang:English" included the following: 1881 Westcott-Hort, BHSMORPH, Pierpont-Robinson Majority Text,  NA26, Tischendorf Varia Lectio, the Greek text from Robinson's Ephesians Commentary, the Greek text from Ellicot's Philipians, Col, Philemon commentary, and Stephen's TR.  Some of these (like NA26 and BHSMORPH) are really old resouces which have really been replaced and are almost just wasted hard drive space and tech suport time.  However, some of these are recent additons from Logos.

Discipleship Journal is not a Journal.  Neither is Semeia.  Only 5 volumes of Evangelical Review of Theology are.  Anchor Bible Dictionary is not a Dictionary.  In fact, in spite of having ANCH as a prefered book, I haven't seen articles from it listed in auto-generated reports yet.  For me, it would me much more useful in an Exegetical Guide than, say, Strong's.

I am glad that i am not teaching as many bible studies as I was a few years ago, because, to be honest, the transition to 4.0 is slowing me down.  I can see hints of good things, but I just haven't learned to use the software yet.

Ken McGuire