Indexing Again?
Not sure why, but started up Logos 4 and it had to prepare my library and is indexing all over again. I did an update of v.3 via the update script. Christian history magazine and ESV reverse interlinear OT downloaded. Would this then cause V.4 to reindex my entire library? If so it shouldn't. Why not just index the updated resources?
Mac Pro 13 Retina 8GB, 256 flash
Comments
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I had this happen too. A while after indexing finished, I closed Logos 4 and reopened it. It went through the entire indexing process all over again. I filed a bug report.
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The system has to reindex the whole library everytime you change it. When yo downlaoded updated versions of resources it was using (the v3.x resources you mentioned) you created the need to reindex.
The power of the search in v4.0 is that it maintains one very large master index of your entire library. This lets you search the whole library quickly, and allows ranked results across the whole library. The price of this power is reindexing when your library changes.
It's possible an incremental re-indexing process could be written, but it would only save a portion of the time involved, and would require a lot of code we haven't gotten to yet.
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Wow. That isn't good news. Buy one new resource you need right away and have to wait for the whole thing to reindex before you can even use Libronix? Speed is important but so is getting to use the program when you need to. Guess I'll have to see how long this sort of thing takes. I'm still waiting for the DVD.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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No... buy one resource and you continue using your existing index (which doesn't contain that new resource) until the new index is built.
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[:O] if its gonna take a day (as it currently is, and do/redo stage 3/4 each time) its gonna be a real pain updating...
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Wow, this is a concern. If there's an update to resources I'd be more likely to avoid the update. Upgrading packages would also be less desirable, I only have close to 400 resources and it took HOURS, I can't go the 24 hours plus without access to system or having it bogged down like I've read for that long with the packages that I could upgrade to. Hopefully the future of 4.0 does include the incremental or update type indexing to avoid what could be a real inconvenient feature. I just can't imagine having to deal with the indexing issues every time a resource is updated, with all the resource updates for the little I have, that I downloaded for 3.0, it would be weeks of indexing time on 4.0... Please find a way out of this... Please!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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When does the new index get then? Am I given the option to rebuild it or is it automatically done at some point? How do I use the new resource without reindexing occurring?
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Yesterday I received the update to the Christian History Magazine. When I started v3, no difference at the resources were immediately available (I understand the diff between 3 and 4 regarding having all resources indexed). I started 4 and everything was as before except the new resources were not available. I synchronized my licenses with the server. When I started 4 again, the computer went back into index mode. After about 30 minutes, i gained access to 4 but could not search (message was indexing taking place). This was about 2:00pm. Indexing was completed between 1:30am and 6:00am when I got up this morning. I am afraid at this point, this will happen everytime I add a new resource which will happen often with the number of prepubs coming up.
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That sounds ominous. This would not be a livable situation for many of us. Try to use one new resource and have to wait 12 hours for reindexing? Yikes!
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I have just added some new resources to my library...
1. There is no indication in the current Beta how we will be able to install new resources into Logos 4.0 without first installing them into Logos 3.0. Any hints on what the future holds here.
2. After adding these books to Logos 3.0, it takes 10 minutes for the Logos 4.0 home page to open on both my notebook and netbook while the ominous "Preparing your library... This may take a very long time." message appears. I assume that part of this process involves transferring the resources to the Logos 4.0 directory - is this correct? Will the startup time be reduced when we can install these items directly into the Logos 4.0 directory?
3. Are updated resources downloaded at this time? I'm concerned about the downloading of resources without any indication.... As others have noted elsewhere, in Australia we have capped plans for internet access. I would much prefer that all downloads occurred during off-peak (this is how I have set up every other program).
4. Re-indexing then begins. The whole idea of pausing reindexing seems pointless given that the Logos 4.0 indexing program seems to consume an inordinate amount of memory whether it is indexing or not.
5. I'm glad that I'm able to use the old index file and have access to my new files when the program eventually starts. It appears that they can be instantly prioritised and are then accessible from the right-click context menu for both words and bible references.
6. Indexing it all from scratch for a day and a half everytime I add a resource is motivation to purchase nothing. Is it not possible to allow manual indexing so that we have a choice whether to index the library or not. That way, I could index my library after adding the much awaited NICOT in mid october but not after adding one small book.
7. Will we be forced to index after every updated resource - the swedish bibles for Logos 4.0? Will this be forced on us.... even for minor updates....
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DamianMcGrath said:
7. Will we be forced to index after every updated resource - the swedish bibles for Logos 4.0? Will this be forced on us.... even for minor updates....
We need to have control over:-
- re-indexing, and
- updating v4 resources
i.e. users need to know what is happening and what the possible repercussions are.
If the Indexer discovers a condition that may need action, we need to know.
If the Updater discovers a condition that may need action, we need to know.
We need to know about possible error conditions and be able to make the final decision.
OK this is a beta and Logos want to have everybody on the same resource versions to prevent known/resolved issues continually arising. but they do have to consider download limits/capping for overseas users and the large amount of time for re-indexing. So monitor our decisions.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I agree to user control. There are times I am sitting at Barnes & Noble having my green tea. I set up my laptop and logon to the web via my tethered cell phone to check emails and fire up Logos for sermon writing, study and lesson preps .... i don't want usage charges for large downloads or downloads automatically starting up or even auto syncing while using my phone as modem.
Please address this... guess i will only use 3.0 while at barnes & noble and tethered
Jim
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This sounds like an incentive to cull our prepub orders.... Its something you put up with during a beta program but its not good if ths is the long term outlook for indexing.
I re-iterate what Dave has said... the user must be in control of this situation..dumbing down the program to a point that the user is not in control of proceses is not good.
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With logos (v4) shutdown, the program was still indexing as indicated with the logos icon in the notification tray (lower right). A right mouse click on the icon gave me the option to pause the indexing for four hours. After pausing, my computer regained it's normal speed. I can live with this feature - as long as I can have control over when the indexing occurs.
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I agree with Dave, Andrew and the rest that options should be given to user with regards to when Updater and Indexer should run.
I have 3K plus resources, it took about 8 hours to index, just when I thought I am done, it restarted indexing again! sigh! I hope you appreciate the frustration from the user's perspective (I know it is beta testing)
Suggestion:
a) The low priority thread that does the updating and indexing, occasionally interferes with my work on my mouse and keyboard, they can suddenly become unresponsive. I recalled some time back Microsoft Updates used to have such problem, now MS Updates seems to run as a really low priority thread and does not interfere with my work. I am running Windows XP Pro.
b) I would like to suggest that you give us another option, to manually force updater and indexer to run as a High Priority thread, and get over with Updating and Indexing. The updating experience in V3 is fine not V4.
c) I think you need further optimize you updating speed or add international bandwidth. I have a 10 Mbps download link, Logos 4 updating download experience is one of the few sites that I would rate as slow.
d) Can you consider to rename "Pause indexing for 4 hours" when hovering mouse of logos icon in task bar. I believe you so I refuse to pause, thinking that I will be forced to wait for 4 hours before resuming update. Just call it "Pause indexing".
JK
MacBookPro Retina 15" Late 2013 2.6GHz RAM:16GB SSD:500GB macOS Sierra 10.12.3 | iPhone 7 Plus iOS 10.2.1
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I really have to say that I don't know what all this fuss about indexing is all about. Yes it does slow things down a little but things hardly grind to a halt as some are implying. There was an update this morning that took only a few minutes to load and now it's indexing the entire library of over 4000 resources again. The program is still usable, albeit a little slower (searches are perhaps 5 seconds compared to 3 normally, but searches are still way, way faster than in Logos 3. And while other programs are a little slower, they are still far better than some computers I've used in the past.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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Alex Scott said:
I really have to say that I don't know what all this fuss about indexing is all about. Yes it does slow things down a little but things hardly grind to a halt as some are implying.
I'm sure on some computers things don't grind to a halt...but even on my netbook (1.6 Hz Intel Atom; 2 GB RAM) indexing slows everything down, makes the computer run hot, and noticably hurts battery life.
Is this re-index-everything problem beta only?
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Overnight, my netbook finally completed re-indexing my library. All up it took 19hrs 23mins - of which 15.5hrs was indexing and the rest the final compacting of the index. While this was happening, the only program that was running was an occasional use of notepad, so as to read the indexing log. I notd that many of the original language items (dictionaries, etc.) took much more time as do large technical commentaries (of which I have most).
Issues:
- Strangely, on my netbook, it would go for great lengths of time without changing the indexing count. This does not occur on my notebook. This gives the semblance that the program has "hung" - when in fact it is churning away in the background, indexing hundreds of books.
- The final message related to the time that the computer is compacting the index ought be changed. Currently it reads "Logos Bible Software is indexing your library". This confused me the first couple of times that my netbook ran the indexing process - as it is the same message as at the start. Perhaps: "Your index is being compacted. Please be very very very patient"
Sadly, my notebook did not have the same success with indexing. Microsoft forced an update overnight which cause a restart of my computer. I have my notebook set to automatically install windows updates. My guess is that this occurred towards the very end of the indexing or during the compacting of the index.
Result: it's all starting up again....... Aaaarggh!
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DamianMcGrath said:
Sadly, my notebook did not have the same success with indexing. Microsoft forced an update overnight which cause a restart of my computer. I have my notebook set to automatically install windows updates. My guess is that this occurred towards the very end of the indexing or during the compacting of the index.
Result: it's all starting up again....... Aaaarggh!
Exactly the same thing happened to me. It surprised me that MS Update did not respect going process of indexing. I thing we Logos people will turn to be the most patient Christians of all... [:)]
Bohuslav
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As far as indexing, what happens with the laptop I use with v.3 on it that I never take online because I have not set it up to go online but use a memory stick to update it with licenses and new resources. Will it index without being online? But, I do not intend to beta test with that computer just wondering about its future or not. (I still haven't received my v.4 dvd. )
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Exactly the same thing happened to me. It surprised me that MS Update did not respect going process of indexing.
I'm not surprised as I wake up often enough to a blank screen waiting for a login.... Critical updates almost always force a restart.
What surprises me is that the indexer does not pick up where it left off.
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DamianMcGrath said:
What surprises me is that the indexer does not pick up where it left off.
Yes, it should be done something about whole thing of indexing. Like Google Desktop Search. It just index whenever your computer is available. If you shut down... next time it continues.
Bohuslav
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DamianMcGrath said:
Sadly, my notebook did not have the same success with indexing. Microsoft forced an update overnight which cause a restart of my computer. I have my notebook set to automatically install windows updates. My guess is that this occurred towards the very end of the indexing or during the compacting of the index.
Result: it's all starting up again....... Aaaarggh!
I have the same problem with my old Pentium 4...It indexes for like 30+ hours and then inevitably restarts itself overnight. Someday it'll have a complete index, but then I'll probably get an update and have to start. I think that old dog is destined to be a perpetually indexing machine. I don't think this indexing business is viable for the final software. I'm assuming (by assuming I mean hoping and begging) that the final software will not resemble beta 1 in any regard related to building indexes.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Alex Scott said:
I really have to say that I don't know what all this fuss about indexing is all about. Yes it does slow things down a little but things hardly grind to a halt as some are implying. There was an update this morning that took only a few minutes to load and now it's indexing the entire library of over 4000 resources again. The program is still usable, albeit a little slower (searches are perhaps 5 seconds compared to 3 normally, but searches are still way, way faster than in Logos 3. And while other programs are a little slower, they are still far better than some computers I've used in the past.
For me, and I think for some others its no so much about grinding to a halt but control over when it happens , and in terms of indexing the overall length of time it takes to complete.
I am a one computer person so computing in the cloud is not something relevant to me my data is firmly on my desktop, but for someone who is in the cloud for instance, on the road with a netbook say, they may not want a large download to kick off automatically, due to the cost. Others may have plans with off-peak times that allow them to download more during that time or at cheaper cost. For me I am not only a one computer person but a one computer household. It is difficult to say to the other household members sorry but your off the computer for the next 36 hours or longer until I finish doing something (but I can't tell you what or why during the beta phase) so your going to have to wait to check your e-mails..... I am sure others can come up with other scenarios... and bottom line is Logos may develop with certain specs in mind but we can't all actually afford to keep up to those specs, particularly outside US (and I am not suggesting they drop their game to the LCD -that would be silly to do so)
Another point is Windows Updates and forced restarts...we are told Logos 4 is being developed with the lower end user in mind rather than the power user - fair enough as long as the power user does not have their hands tied behind their backs. Now the lower end user in paricular is going to have things like automatic updates setup and may not know how to tinker with this and be savvy enough to see Logos is indexing so it would be a good move to turn off automatic updates until indexing completes - the result could be a forced restart that at the moment seem to cause re-indexign to start all over again.
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It feels like you are trying to fix a minor problem while introducing a major one. Sure one of the problems with 3 was the speed of search. But now we introduce a whole new problem. If this indexing is not a much faster process, I personally would much rather have the search engine of 3 than having to deal with this a lot. My problem is that I am always testing a lot of different software and therefore reformat and reinstall my whole desktop system once a month. If this is the process I will have to go through each time, I won't bother using 4 on that system.
I just feel like you re forcing me to live with an 800 lb. gorilla because I said I like to look a monkeys.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
I had an update when I started up my laptop today. The installation and indexing of the entire 4524 resource llibrary took less than 8 hours during which time I was able to use the program (except perhaps for the first few minutes while it downloaded the update), as well as my other programs. While they were slightly slower than usual, it was hardly enough to notice this time. In other words, the update and reindexing took place in a time frame that could be completed overnight if necessary. For the price of searches that for the most past take only a few seconds, I think it's well worth it, for me at least.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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Bob, just a thought...
Have you considered keeping the master index as a whole, and creating an new "additions" table, you could join them together at runtime using the SQL as you are likely using to extract the data the "additional/updated books table" should not take that long to reindex when adding a new book, and everyone hopefully is happy..
[code]
select * from add_it_ons
union
select * from master_index where book_id not in (select book_code from add_it_ons)
[/code]shouldn't cost too much time/overhead, and you have already excluded the old resource by sql without need to reindex the masterindex...
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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For me I never really had thought search speed was that big an issue in 3.0 so am not go WOW when it comes to search speed in 4.0, particular when indexing is put into the equation. I guess we each just value different things and that does make any position any more right than the next. Utimately Logos has to make a business deciison and run with that. I'm not going not use 4.0 because of indexing but I hope there is a lot of optimization to come before the final release.
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Alex Scott said:
I had an update when I started up my laptop today. The installation and indexing of the entire 4524 resource llibrary took less than 8 hours during which time I was able to use the program (except perhaps for the first few minutes while it downloaded the update), as well as my other programs. While they were slightly slower than usual, it was hardly enough to notice this time. In other words, the update and reindexing took place in a time frame that could be completed overnight if necessary. For the price of searches that for the most past take only a few seconds, I think it's well worth it, for me at least.
Alex,
I don't know the specs of your computer, but many of us are using computers which are simply not capable of indexing in this sort of a time frame. I don't imagine that all those possible new users of the program will be people with dual core processors either....
Phil Gons has already said that he's going to buy a new computer for Logos 4.0. If I did this (which I won't), it would simply mean that I would have to stop buying Logos resources for a considerable period of time.
Further, this does not address the problem of indexing being interrupted overnight because of a Windows Update. I do not like having to turn off automatic updates of Windows components... Nor should I have to... To me, that is part of the basic functioning of the Operating System and something that Logos should accommodate, not the end user
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