Logos needs a disaster Recovey Plan
1. To have a weak engine (data center and its servers) under the hood of a Porsche does not do the customer any good. This is the biggest head scratcher is why you did not spend the money on server infrastructure like you do on you image. (Nice buildings in Bellingham--I visited your town last year and it was very nice)
2. Get a sound disaster recovery plan in place. You do not have one! There are plenty of templates out there. Heck there are companies who specializes in this. If you have the cash I would drop your ego and invest in one.3. Put you data centers geographically apart with redundant realtime backup. Not west coast. Central US would be best. And a data center that is not going anywhere. The big ones are swallowing up the smaller ones.
5. Do not put your servers in a data centers with low security (some will say we have great security but do not) .
6. Do not try and coverup your mistakes. Human answers within at lest one hour of an outage will do. Be honest and to the point. Presidents have gotten in trouble with the type of padding lawyer answers you gave and look where it got them.
7. Be honest be fast. A good liaison point person to your customers does not half to be a IT staff. Just someone who can get a quick update form your lead IT.
8. I hope you are secure now. The biggest mistake is recovering after a disaster and shortcutting security.
Hang in. I use your products at our church ( 10 thousand people) and it does great for our volume. Bill
Comments
-
If you actually read https://community.logos.com/forums/t/96695.aspx Bob's apology, you would know that is exactly what they are working on, and were working on before the crash.Bill Smith said:It happens to the best of us. As a cyber security officer at a major Sass in California I would like to point out a couple things. First you are not the only company with a major malfunction in the past month. You have now joined the club. So here are some points to reflect on.
1. To have a weak engine (data center and its servers) under the hood of a Porsche does not do the customer any good. This is the biggest head scratcher is why you did not spend the money on server infrastructure like you do on you image. (Nice buildings in Bellingham--I visited your town last year and it was very nice)
2. Get a sound disaster recovery plan in place. You do not have one! There are plenty of templates out there. Heck there are companies who specializes in this. If you have the cash I would drop your ego and invest in one. 3. Put you data centers geographically apart with redundant realtime backup. Not west coast. Central US would be best. And a data center that is not going anywhere. The big ones are swallowing up the smaller ones. 5. Do not put your servers in a data centers with low security (some will say we have great security but do not) . 6. Do not try and coverup your mistakes. Human answers within at lest one hour of an outage will do. Be honest and to the point. Presidents have gotten in trouble with the type of padding lawyer answers you gave and look where it got them. 7. Be honest be fast. A good liaison point person to your customers does not half to be a IT staff. Just someone who can get a quick update form your lead IT. 8. I hope you are secure now. The biggest mistake is recovering after a disaster and shortcutting security. Hang in. I use your products at our church ( 10 thousand people) and it does great for our volume. Bill
Faithlife was more than honest and forward about exactly what was going on so your comments are off base.
0 -
More than 12 hours before an official response is not off base
0 -
Bill Smith said:
More than 12 hours before an official response is not off base
Bill with all due respect you are accusing them of being dishonest, they weren't. You accused them of not passing out information, they did as quickly as they could.
Their internal communication systems also went down and key people were on the road. Bob has explained all of this. They did not initially realize the severity of the issue and once they did they had to get basic systems up just so they could communicate with us. They have given more information than any of us ever needed to know (although as a techie I quite enjoyed it).
They have been working overtime around the clock many people putting in many many hours away from their families and also their local church ministries. Cut them some slack.
In the end, I don't think anybody was truly harmed by the event, I could be wrong, but I haven't seen any instances. Were we inconvenienced? Sure. Was it the end of the world? No.
0 -
More to the point - your IT infrastructure is your business, now. It is not a cost center, or a necessary evil, to be regarded as an expense to be minimized. It is the place of investment in your business, at least equal in importance to the development of product/functionality and content. Refusal to invest in this area has cost you, as you have already admitted. Do not let this lesson go unheeded.
(This applies to every business today. Don't let Faithlife's lesson go unheeded by you, either.)
0 -
Bill Smith said:
More than 12 hours before an official response is not off base
Bob replied to that issue, too:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/96613/666647.aspx#666647
-Donnie
0 -
Virgil Buttram said:
More to the point - your IT infrastructure is your business, now. It is not a cost center, or a necessary evil, to be regarded as an expense to be minimized. It is the place of investment in your business, at least equal in importance to the development of product/functionality and content. Refusal to invest in this area has cost you, as you have already admitted. Do not let this lesson go unheeded.
(This applies to every business today. Don't let Faithlife's lesson go unheeded by you, either.)
They were already investing and in the process of implementing.....
Let's put this in perspective, I used to work for Apple and while I cannot give specifics, there was a significant product launch a while back where systems went down and we couldn't sell the product. It was an IT internal issue. There was no communication, there was no alerts, and we were left not knowing what to do.
Now, if that is what happens to Apple, compare their size to Faithlife.
Faithlife gave tons of info and has been very forward and informative. Big difference.
0 -
David Taylor Jr said:Bill Smith said:
It happens to the best of us. As a cyber security officer at a major Sass in California I would like to point out a couple things. ...
Hang in. I use your products at our church ( 10 thousand people) and it does great for our volume. Bill
If you actually read https://community.logos.com/forums/t/96695.aspx Bob's apology, you would know that is exactly what they are working on, and were working on before the crash.
Faithlife was more than honest and forward about exactly what was going on so your comments are off base.
Please, nothing in what “Bill Smith" wrote is off base. His techincal points are very pertinent and he is commenting about prospective action. He was not malicious, snarky or anything.
Please also stop insinuating that others are acting like it's "end of the world" and stuff. You want to state your opinion, that's fine. If you want to insinuate content and/or motive, please quote relevantly.
0 -
When you accuse them of lack of information and dishonesty, you are off base because the evidence is completely opposite to that notion.Lee said:David Taylor Jr said:Bill Smith said:It happens to the best of us. As a cyber security officer at a major Sass in California I would like to point out a couple things. ...
Hang in. I use your products at our church ( 10 thousand people) and it does great for our volume. Bill
If you actually read https://community.logos.com/forums/t/96695.aspx Bob's apology, you would know that is exactly what they are working on, and were working on before the crash.
Faithlife was more than honest and forward about exactly what was going on so your comments are off base.
Please, nothing in what “Bill Smith" wrote is off base. His techincal points are very pertinent and he is commenting about prospective action.
0 -
Your sanctimony is going to turn this into another over-the-top thread. You want that? Be my guest.
0 -
Lee said:
Your sanctimony is going to turn this into another over-the-top thread. You want that? Be my guest.
No, the thread just needs to stick to facts and not fiction.
0 -
Regarding communication, the poster is suggesting putting out a liaison person. Is he acting like it's the end of the world?
I have read your other posts, insinuating this and that about what others wrote. I think quoting relevantly and taking things in context is a much better practice.
You worked in Apple before, so what you say is right, and what this guy says can't apply in any way?
You're turning this thread into something unproductive, and it won't be the first time now.
0 -
Lee said:
Regarding communication, the poster is suggesting putting out a liaison person. Is he acting like it's the end of the world?
I have read your other posts, insinuating this and that about what others wrote. I think quoting relevantly and taking things in context is a much better practice.
You worked in Apple before, so what you say is right, and what this guy says can't apply in any way?
You're turning this thread into something unproductive, and it won't be the first time now.
Did I ever say I was right because I worked at Apple??? [^o)]
I'm not sure how keeping the facts is unproductive. If the OP was written before any of the communication about steps being taken and apologies it would have had some merit. But now it is out of place, and not even factual.
0 -
You're advertised as a theology student, so I'm not going to be in a war of words and finessing of meanings. I've seen a trend, and it bothers me. I'll be staying off this thread for sure.
0 -
To be fair to Bill, almost all of what he said was spot on.
To be fair to David, I think he's reacted to Bill's comment that, "Presidents have gotten in trouble with the type of padding lawyer answers you gave and look where it got them." That sentence spoiled an otherwise helpful post.
(I don't have a problem with someone encouraging Logos to be honest when dealing with issues like this. I do have a problem if that encouragement seems to suggest they weren't honest about this problem.)
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Mark Barnes said:
To be fair to Bill, almost all of what he said was spot on.
To be fair to David, I think he's reacted to Bill's comment that, "Presidents have gotten in trouble with the type of padding lawyer answers you gave and look where it got them." That sentence spoiled an otherwise helpful post.
(I don't have a problem with someone encouraging Logos to be honest when dealing with issues like this. I do have a problem if that encouragement seems to suggest they weren't honest about this problem.)
Yes Mark you are correct in my intent and response. Thanks for clarifying!
0 -
Bill Smith said:
2. Get a sound disaster recovery plan in place. You do not have one!
actually they do have one, and were working to expand it. Minor point I know. This weekend was a one off from otherwise great uptime. It was like the weather in the movie "perfect storm" - bunches of things coalesced together to cause a cascade failure, not only in terms of the plan but also in terms of their data center. Not even eventuality can be planned for. This was an eventuality they had planned for, and were in the process of implementing a solution for.
The long and short of it is that with traveling, vacations, conferences, and exchange server failings leadership (bob and some of the other key personnel) were cut off from the technical teams. Having been a technician I can attest to the fact that when things are complicated and I am focussed I don't do things that could break my concentration and slow down my progress. This usually involves copious amounts of caffeinated beverages, and loud music. I am told i "go turtle" until it's figured out. I suspect I am not alone in behaving this way as a tech. further I believe techs ought to not concern themselves with things outside their realm any way, especially not during a crisis.
as eas to the Twitter delas, as a blogger my self I know, and often use technology to automatically post (scheduled or not) things I wish to have appear on all of my social media pages. Depending on their syndication engine, there is not always an undo button. Frankly there isn't always someone looking at their Twitter feed if I had to guess. Especially not on weekends where the key personel are out of town.
In in the end it was an inconvenience. More for some and less for others. As soon as they were able they did communicate with us, and have been very transparent about what going on thereafter.
I honestly cant cant complain too much. Having been through these situations my self in the past, I know techs can be their own worst critic.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
You are all right that was not fair to say about the Presidents. U- called for. Bad choice of words. When you don’t respond in a timely manner (even with a quick “ We are down and looking at the issue, pleas be patient”) People begin to assume. Then when your first official ‘delayed’ response is technically loaded with noise you still are not bringing it to a human customer level.
Disaster responce is also more than hardware (Thats all I have read is about hardware this hardware that) but about strategy and tactics. Its like a city having a plan for hurricanes or earthquake. A good response plan has people in their correct positions to make “timely” decisions. Someone who can focus on customer response (Twitter, Facebook, this forum). This person should not be tied down in other areas of the response. This is their main job. The plan should be activated as soon as a disaster strikes, (cyber threat, data center loss, etc). Other positions will have their respective roles and operations when it comes to a disaster.
Again I love Faithlife. Its a great company. When I visit my in-laws in Bellingham I am amazed at the jobs it creates in the community. But if you want those jobs to be there in the future its ok to listen to outside voices and let your ego down to learn. Like I said it happens to the best of us. This is not the time to put up guards and walls. This wheel of downtime does not need to be invented twice. I do not mean any disrespect. I have principles in fairness and honesty. And I am holy sorry if I meant otherwise. Sometimes I choose the wrong words.0 -
Thank you for the suggestions, Bill. You are correct that we need a better plan, and we'll be working on that as soon as we're through this crisis.
I wish we had the resources to build out the full infrastructure you suggest, with real-time redundant backup in multiple geographic locations... I have a feeling you work for a bigger SASS than we are. Or one that's VC funded. :-)
-- Bob
P.S. I'm glad you think Bellingham looks nice, but our real estate is mostly 100+ years old, and a lot cheaper than it would be in a larger city... Wait, maybe you went by our reception area, were we have beautiful crown molding, wood columns, etc. Did we tell you that was all done by an earlier owner -- a huge real estate development company -- and we moved into the vacant building cheap years later? I think we're spending less on 'image' than you think. But I'm glad to hear it still looks good! :-)
0 -
I think it's always good to keep a thread humorous. And being the geo-lady that I am, I was impressed to see how well the backup location matched the main location.
Both facing the continental shelf with large amounts of water above and frequent earthquakes to the north and south. Both +/- 80ft above present sea level. Both on pleistocene glacial drift. Both subject to the same electric grid. And one carefully located near a major airport. (I remember at DFW in Texas, where they carefully located the jet fuel tanks next to the glide path of landing 747s ... actually right on the glide path of 1 of the 747s; both did not survive).
What is interesting about 'risk' is that humans are quite comfortable with it. Japan is a great example, where major construction continues next to the predicted 'big one' .... just south of our house. Nuclear plants on fault lines next to the ocean. Here, drivers go 70 mph in early morning traffic, betting no one will hit the brakes.
Personally, they'd do better just to put their backup up the hill on the cretaceous sandstone. Higher. Solid. Close-by. Same electric company as their current backup location. And no 777s flying overhead. This isn't a serious suggestion.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Thank you Bob. I am my own worst enemy on my assumptions especially when I get worked up. I mean "no" disrespect.
Actully we are middle size with less than 10tb of data. We are in the recovering from our investment in infrastructure (3 secure redundant data centers). We made the budgeting decision last year from marketing and development to backend support. We took a heavy toll on funds but are in a good place to move forward with database cleanup (we were at 100tb before optimization). This allowed us to backup fast and effective. Keep up the good work. Bill
0 -
Thank you Bob for weighing in once again. Best laid plans of mice and men go astray. I was glad to hear of your plans from your other thread and it is ashamed that had this outage happened in a few weeks your backup centre would have handled it, but it is also good that the backup centre had much of the equipment you needed to get things back up and running. I try to look at this outage as a blessing. It showed Faithlife where significant changes need to be made and for proclaim users perhaps showed them leaving things to the last minute is never a good idea. I am thankful that 90%+ of Logos application functionality works very well without Logos servers. I can live without the following...(https://community.logos.com/forums/p/93180/647603.aspx)
Todd White (Faithlife) said:This is a great discussion and a great reminder that not everyone has internet access all the time. We try to strike a balance with features that require internet and those that don't and in some cases the feature will not work offline initially but has the capability of working offline.
Here are some of my thoughts on the features listed by Mark.
Atlas - The new maps are quickly approaching terabytes of data. It would not be practical (or desired) to download that content to every users machine. However, we do cache the metadata for every map the user owns and the recently viewed zoom levels (we call them tiles) to the users computer. If you go offline passage guide and other features will tell you that you have a map, but you may not be able to load the map if you haven't viewed it recently. We even evaluated a few options of pre-downloading some of the maps so users would have a good out of the box offline experience, but decided to wait and see if that will be needed based on user feedback.
Community Tags - The nature of this data is online and would also be very large to download. We also had the difficulty deciding if we downloaded it how often would people want it downloaded. Some people may not like this feature and would we need to add a way for those people to turn it off completely? We landed on leaving this one as online only.
Visual Copy - This feature takes advantage of online templates that don't have to be stored on the application as well as the technology of Proclaim to render slides. We didn't want to completely integrate Proclaim into the application and didn't want to require users to have Proclaim installed to use it. As we gauge the popularity of this feature all of the decisions may be revisited.
Ask the Author - The nature of this feature is online only. We could possibly queue up your question offline, but the complexity was enough that we didn't even consider offline support.
Groups - Very similar to Ask the Author.
Wikipedia - After you view a Wikipedia article the article should be viewable offline.
Books.logos.com search - You can download and integrate books into Library search for offline use.
Online Manuscripts - This isn't our content so it will only work online.
Logos Media Library - There are a large number of images provided by this library. Storing all of the images, videos, handouts, etc. on your computer in the possibility you might use them someday would be a tough sell.
Online media - This is media on external sites so it makes sense to keep online only.
Home Page Blogs - Home page works offline, but you need to be online to get the blogs. I think this is the right balance.
Overall I think we made reasonable decisions when striking a balance for each feature online and offline; however, we may have missed the mark somewhere. Your feedback on the features that we missed the mark on is invaluable, so please keep the feedback coming.
Faithlife has a plan, Verbum/Logos desktop apps function with close to full power with no internet connection. Bob has apologized and explained things fully again and again. And I will say yet again, this was an inconvenience not a disaster.
-Dan
0 -
0 -
Dan Francis said:
Best laid plans of mice and men go astray.
A well-turned phrase ... Find more here: https://www.logos.com/product/9902/the-harvard-classics-vol-6-the-poems-and-songs-of-robert-burns
"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963
0 -
Denise - you missed the obvious lahar danger which, given that is comes from different mountains, is unlikely to be simultaneous.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
True. But I was trying to be brazenly subtle, in noting the primary disaster threat did not seem to be natural (and rarely is). And the recovery plan seemed to be maximized, by minimizing the distance between the problem and the solution. I'd assume re-locating Seatle computer parts stores to Bellingham would be a big plus. Or visa versa.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Silicon Valley and Seattle are both on major fault lines. A lot more tech companies than Faithlife are in a world of hurt if there ever is a major earthquake. Thankfull, we haven't had a major earthquake since 2001 here in Seattle.
0 -
Denise, you're perceptive as usual. They said nothing about sending people north to Vancouver, which I think is closer. Did they let a little thing like a national border stand in the way of shortening the down time? I'm sure they have people with experience smuggling er ah I mean giving ambiguous answers to border patrol to get through faster.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I think the real problem of a disaster recovery plan is that it still relies on certain assumptions which are not considered. The company I worked for had a rule that the heads of the company would not travel together in case of a major accident. Now if they were in a room together, rather happened often, and the ceiling collapsed, the rule's precaution was of no use.
If your computer's CPU goes up in smoke on Friday, what would you do? Everyone needs to plan ahead. (Hint: work ahead of schedule)
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
Dan Francis said:
And I will say yet again, this was an inconvenience not a disaster.
It was "an inconvenience not a disaster" to most users, but if you multiply the inconvenience by the number of users affected, and then that by how long the outage lasted (there are still things that aren't working yet four days after the problem began), then from the company's perspective, it is a disaster. You can bet they are not going to want to repeat this episode ever again. It has been very costly to them: having to buy emergency replacement equipment and fly team members around or send them driving down I-5 to go pick up these replacement parts by hand, having people working round the clock to fix everything, getting a new support contract on short notice, etc. And then they're also going to have to take the time to rethink their backup and restore strategy, probably buy more equipment and hire more people to prevent this from happening again. Yes, it was a disaster. A big learning experience, but an expensive event which I hope they never have to live through again. In company parlance, this is called putting in place a "disaster recovery plan" because these sorts of events are called "disasters" in corporate lingo.
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
A big learning experience, but an expensive event which I hope they never have to live through again. In company parlance, this is called putting in place a "disaster recovery plan" because these sorts of events are called "disasters" in corporate lingo.
Yes and I am sure Faithlife is well underway in trying to ensure this never happens again. and for FL it was a bad thing... I am sorry for everyone who was inconvenienced. But I still feel all users have tended to over react. A worse case scenario seems to be a Worship service was disrupted. This is unfortunate but I personally do not think anyone should consider that horrible. Technology can help us worship but should never be needed to worship. I never meant to say it was not a big deal for Faithlife, just that for us affected it was not as bad a scenario as people made it sound. This thread in particular seemed pointless (I am hoping the person starting this simply missed Bob's explanation in which he said they had already started prep for such a disaster when murphy's law caught up before they were done). I do not feel I am owed anything for this disaster, perhaps proclaim users are owed something for their inconvenience but that is debatable of course. The Faithlife employees are doing everything possible. I want software that works 100% too, but i fail to see how our complaints help any. After all it is not about me or you or church a or b, it's about Christ, and I do not see how this can help. In some ways much of it feels like james and john wanting to call down hell fire. It is not Jesus' way.
-Dan
0 -
With respect, Dan, you're the one missing the point of the original post. It's from a Security Officer, wanting to offer some advice to Logos. Bob P. has humbly accepted it. You're just another user, and you're missing the entire corporate context that they are dialoging about, with nothing to add other than that you suffered nothing, feel nothing and it's not a disaster (missing the "disaster" point entirely).
Dan Francis said:In some ways much of it feels like james and john wanting to call down hell fire. It is not Jesus' way.
-Dan
I would love for you to quote people and offer relevant, wise rebuke to the people who said too much or out of turn, rather than impose a lofty Jesus-would-not-approve-it kind of blanket statement. I think, in fact, that there is a lot of misinterpretation going on in your statement.
0 -
Dan Francis said:
This thread in particular seemed pointless (I am hoping the person starting this simply missed Bob's explanation in which he said they had already started prep for such a disaster when murphy's law caught up before they were done).
The person who started this thread seemed to be trying to give his expert advice (one could almost read it in a tone of "I feel for you guys, I'm sure it must be tough; here's what I've learned in my experience in the business, hope it helps for next time..."). He seems to have the kind of experience that would have helped out in this situation if Faithlife had had someone of his background on hand instead of having to learn the ropes as they went along. Bill probably had not seen Bob's explanation that there was already a plan in the works.
Yes, there were other threads which implied Faithlife owed users something, and I agree with you about those threads. But this thread in particular was not one such. It was just simply "Logos needs a disaster recovery plan" (which Bob and his teammates would not dispute), with an elaboration of what he meant by that subject line. It was unfortunate that he included one sentence in there which he was later called out on and admitted he had mischosen his words. But the rest of it was purely professional and very wise, regardless of whether Bob and his company could have said "yup, we already know that." He was saying it in a tone of charity towards the company, and he reiterated later that he loves Logos. He really was just trying to be helpful.
0 -
Too Lee and Rosie... I was not meaning to suggest Bill was being unreasonable. I admit I was lumping his thread in to many others. When I first read this thread I thought it was being more critical than helpful (we have seen a lot of that in the past few days). My James john statement was aimed more at a comment on a different thread. At times I will admit my train of thought can get very tangental. Bill likely was meaning to be helpful and he was not the one in any respect who claimed damnation for the Logos staff. At one point someone complained people were being big babies in not so many words. I hate how this outage has caused many people to lash out. My apologies once again. I should know better than post with a migraine. This is not the first time I have put my foot in my mouth because of that.
-Dan
0 -
Bill Smith said:
It happens to the best of us. As a cyber security officer at a major Sass in California I would like to point out a couple things. First you are not the only company with a major malfunction in the past month. You have now joined the club. So here are some points to reflect on.
1. To have a weak engine (data center and its servers) under the hood of a Porsche does not do the customer any good. This is the biggest head scratcher is why you did not spend the money on server infrastructure like you do on you image. (Nice buildings in Bellingham--I visited your town last year and it was very nice)
2. Get a sound disaster recovery plan in place. You do not have one! There are plenty of templates out there. Heck there are companies who specializes in this. If you have the cash I would drop your ego and invest in one. 3. Put you data centers geographically apart with redundant realtime backup. Not west coast. Central US would be best. And a data center that is not going anywhere. The big ones are swallowing up the smaller ones. 5. Do not put your servers in a data centers with low security (some will say we have great security but do not) . 6. Do not try and coverup your mistakes. Human answers within at lest one hour of an outage will do. Be honest and to the point. Presidents have gotten in trouble with the type of padding lawyer answers you gave and look where it got them. 7. Be honest be fast. A good liaison point person to your customers does not half to be a IT staff. Just someone who can get a quick update form your lead IT. 8. I hope you are secure now. The biggest mistake is recovering after a disaster and shortcutting security. Hang in. I use your products at our church ( 10 thousand people) and it does great for our volume. Bill
Lee said:Please, nothing in what “Bill Smith" wrote is off base. His techincal points are very pertinent and he is commenting about prospective action. He was not malicious, snarky or anything.
I read it a bit differently, I guess (esp. the parts I bolded). Not that it matters what I think, but I'd probably call those statements at least somewhat condescending.
0 -
Bob P.'s response was measured and wise, because this guy knows what he's talking about.
I've lived long enough to realize that the best advice is often not couched in soft language. Advice given, advice taken. So it really doesn't matter what you (or I or anyone) would think.
0 -
Dan Francis said:
I should know better than post with a migraine. This is not the first time I have put my foot in my mouth because of that.
No worries. To quote Bill in the words with which he started this thread, "it happens to the best of us." I hope and pray that you recover from your migraine soon.
Yes, indeed, people have been lashing out in unhelpful ways, and that is not very nice. I hope all of that hasn't contributed to your headache.
Peace to you, and get some rest.
0 -
Dan Francis said:
Too Lee and Rosie... I was not meaning to suggest Bill was being unreasonable. I admit I was lumping his thread in to many others. When I first read this thread I thought it was being more critical than helpful (we have seen a lot of that in the past few days). My James john statement was aimed more at a comment on a different thread. At times I will admit my train of thought can get very tangental. Bill likely was meaning to be helpful and he was not the one in any respect who claimed damnation for the Logos staff. At one point someone complained people were being big babies in not so many words. I hate how this outage has caused many people to lash out. My apologies once again. I should know better than post with a migraine. This is not the first time I have put my foot in my mouth because of that.
-Dan
Don't feel bad. I suffered with Foot In Mouth Syndrome quite a bit since I've been here. It happens to the best of us(now where did I hear that from).
Also prayed for you to get better soon. God Bless you always and like it was said get some rest.
0
