BUG (?): NIDNTTE References / Links

I'm using the newly-released NIDNTTE this afternoon. I'm hoping that I'm completely missing something (highly likely), but I can't understand the following.

I'm on the entry for ἐνδύω. At the end of the article it has the usual Bibliography. The first four entries in the bibliography are TDNT, EDNT, TDOT, and NIDOTTE. Each of those entries has specific locations / citations associated with it (e.g. TDNT 2:318-21). You can hover over the resource abbreviations (e.g. TDNT) to see short bibliographic information for the resource.

However, none of those specific locations/citations are links. I have TDNT. I have EDNT. I have NIDOTTE. Am I missing something as to why specific citation references aren't links to those locations in resources that Logos offers and that I own? In a resource that was released yesterday?

Help me out! What am I missing?

Thanks,

Donnie

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Comments

Lee

Behaviour confirmed.

Personally, I think this level of tagging is inadequate.

Adam Olean

I noticed this as well. Thanks for reporting it. [Y]

Ted Weis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/671992#Comment_671992

Unfortunately, you're not missing anything. This resource is not completely tagged.

RyanB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/672035#Comment_672035

Donnie, in recent years it feels like (at least to me) Logos has shifted strategy to trying to pushing out more resources at a faster speed and this has caused many resources to be pushed out before they were completely tagged. (The C. Peter Wagner bundle was the worst I've seen.) Almost every new resource I buy that has come out of Pre-pub or Community Pricing I see errors and missed tagging. I get the impression that they do a basic job of tagging most things, then instead of proofing and checking before publishing it, they just send it out and rely on the user to do the rest of the job with typo reports. (I thought I read a post from Bob about this here once but I couldn't find it).

For many of us here it is a source of constant frustration as inter-connectivity was the major selling point but it sadly seems to be the new business model.

Donnie Hale

Bump.

I'd really like a response from Faithlife on this issue.

a) Does Faithlife agree with those of us in this thread that the tagging is deficient?

b) If Faithlife does agree, how did this end up happening? And when might we expect an updated version of the resource?

c) If Faithlife does not agree, why not? Further, what are Faithlife's standards for tagging such as described here? And how does that square with all its advertisements about "interconnected resources"?

Thanks,

Donnie

André Kamphuis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/672909#Comment_672909

I'd really like a response from Faithlife on this issue.

[Y]

Kyle G. Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/672923#Comment_672923

Thank you for reporting this. We are are working on getting this resource fixed. I'm not able to provide an ETA at this moment.

The missing tagging in the bibliography had nothing to do with rushing to get the job completed. It had to do with a misunderstanding of the reference tagging and Quality Assurance teams on how this particular bibliography was to be handled.

We're using this opportunity to revise our internal documentation and training.

We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have the resource updated quickly.

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/673047#Comment_673047

Thanks Kyle for the update.

I will look forward to the update for this resource.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/673047#Comment_673047

We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to have the resource updated quickly.

Thanks for the answer. Much appreciated.

Donnie

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/673061#Comment_673061

Someone on another thread made a remark, basically saying that users need to keep pushing Logos to uphold standards. Another user also found that the ubiquitous "excellent tagging" marketing line is no longer included in many product descriptions.

While I am very satisfied with the response and outcome for this particular product, I have a nagging concern that slipping standards might develop into a pattern.

Daniel Bender

I'm on the entry for ἐνδύω. At the end of the article it has the usual Bibliography. The first four entries in the bibliography are TDNT, EDNT, TDOT, and NIDOTTE. Each of those entries has specific locations / citations associated with it (e.g. TDNT 2:318-21). You can hover over the resource abbreviations (e.g. TDNT) to see short bibliographic information for the resource.

Thanks Donnie for reporting this. I sent CS a question the day after downloading the NIDNTTE. I was told that these were typos and then given instructions on how to report them. However this is not the case. Every hyper-linked resource listed in the bibliography of a word does not open the resource (however, you can find links within articles that will open hyper-linked resources). The links in the bibliographies of the older work (NIDNTT) do work. I've listed the NIDNTT and NIDNTTE side by side below; the TDNT opens in the older resource but not the new (there is no page/volume link attached). I have found that this is consistent in every word I checked. One of the main reasons I purchased the new resource was for the linking with my other resources. This is disappointing.

Sean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/673856#Comment_673856

This is disappointing.

Logos's lack of links has to be its biggest shortcoming, and until they do something fundamental to address this, all the new enhancements that come out with new version numbers are just window dressing. There's no reason a new work like this should have been released without proper tagging.

Something needs to be done about the many, many resources that we've already bought that don't link. I understand why Faithlife would be very reluctant to fix all of them by hand (=$$$), but this problem has to get fixed if they want to remain a premier software--with a premium price--for Christian research.

Some ideas I've had:

-Run some automated macros on the old books to see what references they can catch and automatically link. Have a human check questionable ones at the end. When in doubt, don't link. This should be able to improve some resources with little added cost. It wouldn't catch everything, but I'd rather have 40 or 50 or 80% of citations [of resources not yet tagged] have working links than 0.

-For the example you posted: there's no reason why the software shouldn't be able to grab the reference after the book that's already partially tagged--e.g., it should be able to look ahead from TDNT to 9:189-219, grab it and intelligently parse the link.

-Why can't we right click on some text like "TDNT" and be able to have the software search our library to see if there is a title that matches? If we can't have links for everything, that would at least save us some clicking on getting it open.

-Similarly, why can't we right-click on text, have the software intelligently parse it, and throw it up on the command line for opening? If I type "Open TDNT" up there, it will open. If I go to the locator bar in TDNT and type "9:189-219" it will go there. Why can the software intelligently parse this for me if I right click on it and tell it to, even if it isn't tagged?

Please, Logos Defenders, don't come in here to tell me why at least some of this can't be done. The software already does far more complicated things than this. And my browser can open something that looks like a URL even if a link isn't embedded. This needs to be a priority, if not for future version of L6, then for L7.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/673856#Comment_673856

One of the main reasons I purchased the new resource was for the linking with my other resources. This is disappointing.

Hopefully you saw the response from Kyle (Faithlife) above acknowledging this shortcoming and promising a fix.

This comment might be buried too far down in a not widely-read thread to be seen, but perhaps Faithlife needs a way to beta test *resource* releases to catch things like this before widespread distribution.

Donnie

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/673926#Comment_673926

Daniel Hopefully you saw the response from Kyle (Faithlife) above acknowledging this shortcoming and promising a fix.

Hi Donnie, I have a bad habit of reading the forums when I am tired and need to wind down. I had some late night hospital visits and then got called in to a nursing home where I serve as a part time chaplain. Even after being up for 20 hrs straight I couldn't sleep so went to the forums. Perhaps I need a different form of sleep therapy. I did see Kyle's post but only after I already submitted my response. Thanks for your reply.

Dan