Sermons of Wyclif in modern English?
I have the Select English Works of of John Wyclif, and a sermon came up in the Sermon Starter guide for a passage I'm preaching on.
The trouble is, that I'm finding it very difficult to read, because it's in an old English dialect. I think I have the alphabet sorted, but it can still be a bit obtuse at times. For example:
I'm wondering if there's a modern English translation of this that would be at least up to King James era English that is in Logos, or available on line. There doesn't seem to be a modern English translation of this in my Library (or did I miss it?). Any ideas? I'd love to be able to understand him.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
Comments
-
I cannot find any evidence that his sermons have been translated into modern English.
There's a critical edition (5 volumes) edited by Anne Hudson, the 4th and 5th volumes of which contain commentary on the sermons:
What would be cool would be if there was an automated Middle English to Modern English translator online. I've only been able to find this one that translates one word of Old English at a time: http://www.oldenglishtranslator.co.uk/index.htm And it didn't find the few words I tried from that excerpt you provided. Here's another: http://hord.ca/projects/eow/
It seems it might be worth teaching oneself to read Middle English. Here's a Concise Dictionary of Middle English online. It would be great if we had this in Logos!
One problem is that spellings were not standardized back then (even John Wyclif's name is sometimes spelled Wycliffe, Wycliff, Wiclef, Wicliffe, Wickliffe). I see the word "eende" in the middle of your excerpt, and it obviously means "end" in that context, but I couldn't find it in the Concise Dictionary of Middle English.
A more thorough Middle English Dictionary is https://books.google.com/books?id=nSGDA9h6o7kC (preview available)
There are also a bunch of Kindle books on reading Middle English literature which might be of some assistance. Faithlife ought to get a few of these for Noet, I would think:
- A Companion to Old and Middle English Literature
- Middle English Literature (Harvard Dissertations in Philosophy) - has a chapter on the Wyclif Bible
- Reading Middle English Literature
- A Book of Middle English
- Medieval Writers and their Work: Middle English Literature 1100-1500
- The Cambridge Companion to Medieval English Literature 1100-1500 (Cambridge Companions to Literature)
- A Concise Companion to Middle English Literature
And some more advanced works:
- Middle English Literature (PCHL-Polity Cultural History of Literature)
- Middle English Literature: A Guide to Criticism (Blackwell Guides to Criticism)
EDIT: Here are some of Wycliffe's sermons in Latin, in case you're any better at reading Latin than Middle English.
0 -
Note that in addition to the side bar and footnotes, the right side include links to two additional types of notes. What you will should be asking is for Logos to provide us a format similar to this for community notes to build the texts into the equivalent of METS texts. And, yes, I know that when I requested books I asked for TEAMS not METS ....
Or if you prefer straight parallels and translations:
Somehow this post got really messed up losing the first part ... which suggested that you go tohttp://www.southampton.ac.uk/~wpwt/notes/metrans.htm to learn the basic pitfalls then to http://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/catalog to pick a text or two to read to get the hang of it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
I cannot find any evidence that his sermons have been translated into modern English.
[:(]
Nor am I sure I want to got through all the time necessary to do my own translation. I gotta preach on this text Sunday; there are bigger irons in the fire than this.
MJ. Smith said:What you will should be asking is for Logos to provide us a format similar to this for community notes to build the texts into the equivalent of METS texts.
I don't know what METS nor TEAMS are, but it looks like you're suggesting a diglot in parallel columns type of format, perhaps something that users could contribute to. One of the issues with that, is the rather loose translation I see in the second example, which I would not want. The bigger issue however, is that I'd want a translation from someone who knows that dialect of English, i.e., an expert. I can guess. But the meanings of words change and some words are lost over time.
A diglot would be one way to get what I want. If I were a student of the English of this period, I'd really prefer that. But I'm not. A separate resource would be fine by me (if they could be linked in parallel columns that might serve roughly the same purposed.
I guess if you two don't know of anything that could get me what I want today, my immediate need can't be met.
A bigger issue though is that Logos should probably mark this resource as not in modern English. A customer would have to look at the images of the pages and conclude that the content would be in that form of English. As it is, the Select English Works of John Wyclif, might lead one to believe that one who knew modern English might find these accessible. They aren't. Thankfully I got these as part of a larger package. I'm not miffed, just disappointed. (Maybe I should turn this into a post in the Suggestion forum, or a correction in the Logos.com forum.)
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
0 -
Rich DeRuiter said:
A bigger issue though is that Logos should probably mark this resource as not in modern English.
You obviously do not frequent Yorkshire!
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
0 -
Mike Binks said:Rich DeRuiter said:
A bigger issue though is that Logos should probably mark this resource as not in modern English.
You obviously do not frequent Yorkshire!
Never been there. I hear they have nice pudding and terriers (and hoping the one has nothing to do with the other).
[;)]
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
0 -
Rich DeRuiter said:
I'm finding it very difficult to read, because it's in an old English dialect. I think I have the alphabet sorted, but it can still be a bit obtuse at times.
at least you have a fighting chance, it could also be displayed in Old English script.
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
0 -
The works of John Knox is a marvellous resource as it has an interlinear with both the old and the modern spellings where you can choose to display any combination of the two as you wish.
It really works very well and is the best of both worlds. I wish they had done this for Wyclif.
0 -
I'm not in a position where I need to use Wycliffe's works for what I do, so there's no sense of urgency or accuracy when I read his writings. But I do enjoy slogging through what he's written--you can hear the old English accent in the words. There's something about connecting to this history and heritage that is thrilling.
0 -
Rich DeRuiter said:
Nor am I sure I want to got through all the time necessary to do my own translation.
I wouldn't ever want to do my own translation, but I might someday want to develop enough proficiency in reading ME that I could just read it directly without having to translate it. However I understand that if you have an immediate need for it for this Sunday that's not going to be practical for you.
My aunt studied Middle English in her graduate days at Oxford and either did a translation of, or a significant paper on, or was working on her MPhil dissertation on Ancrene Wisse (Guide for Anchoresses), as I recall. I'd love to have her fluency in the language.
0
