Visual filter error

I noticed an error with the visual filter effects today. I was looking through James 2 and noticed my filters were not functioning how they should. I had set a certain kind of underlining for plurals and singles(various colors based on noun/pronoun or verb). While in the LEB James 2:8 says "However, if you carry out" where "you carry out" is expressed in only one Greek term τελεῖτε. However the visual filter correctly points out and underlines that "carry" is plural but not "you" or "out" which are a part of the word in the greek. It is being parsed correctly because the mouseover tells me the correct parsing that would match my filter when examining both "you" and "out" yet still does not underline them. However, in the LDGNT which is the Greek counterpart to the LEB when in interlinear form it has all three English words underlined.

It would be truly helpful if words that match a visual filter would still be shown properly even when some of the English words are used out of English grammatical necessity. The library clearly recognizes them as such, except in the visual filter.

P.S. I also noticed some other examples just in the same passage in, such as, "you are doing" in verse 8 or "you show partiality" and "you commit" in verse 9.

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MJ. Smith

You need to provide a screen shot of the filter for any of us to be able to determine precisely what is happenings. I'm not sure what you mean by "the library clearly recognizes them as such" so a screen shot of what you mean there may also be required. I suspect I know what you mean but ... use the paper clip icon to insert the screen shots into the forum reply. And Merry Christmas.

you carry out.jpg

GregW

I noticed an error with the visual filter effects today. I was looking through James 2 and noticed my filters were not functioning how they should. I had set a certain kind of underlining for plurals and singles(various colors based on noun/pronoun or verb). While in the LEB James 2:8 says "However, if you carry out" where "you carry out" is expressed in only one Greek term τελεῖτε. However the visual filter correctly points out and underlines that "carry" is plural but not "you" or "out" which are a part of the word in the greek. It is being parsed correctly because the mouseover tells me the correct parsing that would match my filter when examining both "you" and "out" yet still does not underline them. However, in the LDGNT which is the Greek counterpart to the LEB when in interlinear form it has all three English words underlined.

It would be truly helpful if words that match a visual filter would still be shown properly even when some of the English words are used out of English grammatical necessity. The library clearly recognizes them as such, except in the visual filter.

P.S. I also noticed some other examples just in the same passage in, such as, "you are doing" in verse 8 or "you show partiality" and "you commit" in verse 9.

I also use a visual filter to double underline all second-person plurals and single underline all second-person singulars. The filter is based on the underlying Greek, so will always underline whatever English word is linked to the Greek word in the Reverse Interlinear. As you can see from the screenshot below, it is "carry" that is linked to the underlying τελεῖτε. I suspect that some others wouldn't want English words that have been added for clarity to be picked by the filter. The same does apply to the NIV. Personally I'm happy with it as it is because the main purpose of the filter in my case is to show me when reading the English whether the second-person verb is singular or plural, and it achieves that admirably as it is.

you carry out.jpg

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

It would be truly helpful if words that match a visual filter would still be shown properly even when some of the English words are used out of English grammatical necessity.

+1 [Y] for visual filter highlighting of words added in translation. Right Click on "you" in James 2:8 shows manuscript and morphology that is not visually highlighted in LEB:

Personally use superscript wavy line for plural and superscript straight line for singular.

Keep Smiling [:)]

you carry out.jpg

Jason Carwile

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/679134#Comment_679134

My photo is not too dissimilar from yours, and I understand why there is a difference between the LEB (Reverse interlinear functions) and the LDGNT. The issue I have with the visual filter is of a linguistic nature. As you can see with my filter I also have nouns and pronouns in my filter to identify singulars and plurals. The fact that NEITHER of these filter is able to identify the you here is a problem. Now it would make more sense if the "carry out" were underlined and I probably wouldn't have even brought this to the forum. However, the fact that "out" is excluded from this filter as well is a huge oversight in my opinion. Whereas "you" is added due to English grammatical necessity, "out" is a translation that is included out of semantic necessity. It is therefore just as much a part of the greek verb translation as "carry" is and yet is excluded. Furthermore, the lexicon recognizes that "you" and "out" are both a part of the verb and not separate entities. When you is selected you can see in the information that it is parsed as a verb (Verb, present, active, indicative, second person, plural), which conveniently is directly next to the filter that should identify it. Now I didn't write the code for the visual filter program, but it appears to me that the filters are unable to identify clauses that are translations of a single greek word. If it can only identify and "link" to a single word in the translation text, then that is a big problem. It is especially frustrating for someone like myself who wants to use the visual filters as a shortcut to looking at every word in the interlinear/reverse interlinear to find out simple information like this. It would also be especially helpful in my opinion if the filters did indeed include the pronouns that are added with the verb underlined because that immediately lets me know that the pronoun is not in the greek but rather is included because of the greek verb morphology.

Also, Keep Smiling 4 Jesus, I am a little confused by your post. Were you trying to suggest a workaround for this or were you thinking maybe I wasn't aware of this functionality of the program?

you carry out.jpg

Jason Carwile

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/679171#Comment_679171

I apologize, it didn't want to show my screenshot.

you carry out.jpg

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/679171#Comment_679171

Also, Keep Smiling 4 Jesus, I am a little confused by your post. Were you trying to suggest a workaround for this or were you thinking maybe I wasn't aware of this functionality of the program?

For this suggestion thread, screen shot shows Visual Filters for present tense, indicative mood, and plural number are not being highlighted in LEB for "you" and "out" so would appreciate visual filter highlighting of "you carry out" in James 2:8 to be the same as "carry" for τελεῖτε

As a workaround, right click in LEB shows morphology code, which has number.

Furthermore, the lexicon recognizes that "you" and "out" are both a part of the verb and not separate entities.

Puzzled by lexicon statement because "you" is part of the verbal conjugation, which is typically not part of the lemma definition(s) in a lexicon. Four lexicon examples do not have "you" in the τελέω definitions (including BDAG and LSJ):

Now I didn't write the code for the visual filter program, but it appears to me that the filters are unable to identify clauses that are translations of a single greek word. If it can only identify and "link" to a single word in the translation text, then that is a big problem.

Visual filter highlighting in Logos 4, 5, and 6 have only highlighted one English or Spanish word for one Greek word using tagging in reverse interlinear that associates one Greek word with one English or Spanish word.

Likewise have no access to visual filter implementation; can pray and dream for change while not knowing which is easier: change visual filter coding or resource tagging.

Keep Smiling [:)]

you carry out.jpg

Jason Carwile

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/679197#Comment_679197

And this is the whole point of my bringing this up. I do not think visual filters are as useful as they can be if they can not link an entire clause in the filter to the original greek word. That is why this is on the suggestion thread.

you carry out.jpg

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/679134#Comment_679134

I suspect that some others wouldn't want English words that have been added for clarity to be picked by the filter.

I know this will be read by some as obnoxious but since it is clear that you already understand, its safe to point it out here - i.e. an educational moment. The English words are not "added" content as they are present in the original text. They simply are not separate words. My personal preference would be that when the content is in the original, that the English translating that content be highlighted whether it is translated by one or several words. When the content is not present in the original but required for the English to make grammatical sense, the additional English would not be highlighted.

you carry out.jpg

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/679290#Comment_679290

My personal preference would be that when the content is in the original, that the English translating that content be highlighted whether it is translated by one or several words. When the content is not present in the original but required for the English to make grammatical sense, the additional English would not be highlighted.

+1 [Y] for visual filter highlighting to morphologically show all word(s) translated from one original language word.

For example, the English translation of "you carry out" for τελεῖτε in James 2:8. Current visual filter search implementation finds "carry" for τελεῖτε, but does not find "you" and "out", which are part of the English translation for one Greek word.

Keep Smiling [:)]

you carry out.jpg

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/679290#Comment_679290

I suspect that some others wouldn't want English words that have been added for clarity to be picked by the filter.

I know this will be read by some as obnoxious but since it is clear that you already understand, its safe to point it out here - i.e. an educational moment. The English words are not "added" content as they are present in the original text. They simply are not separate words. My personal preference would be that when the content is in the original, that the English translating that content be highlighted whether it is translated by one or several words. When the content is not present in the original but required for the English to make grammatical sense, the additional English would not be highlighted.

Completely agree, and it's not obnoxious. I probably sacrificed clarity for brevity in my original post.

you carry out.jpg