Is it possible to view the ESV without cross-reference footnotes?
This is something that has bothered me on the Windows version, Mac version 1, and now the new beta: Is there a way to display the ESV bible without the Cross-reference footnotes. I know in Version 1 I could choose to view the "Bible Text Only", but that is not what I am wanting: I really like the paragraph form with the ESV section headings, but I really don't need to see the super-script links that are in the print version.
I copy and paste between Logos and my text editor of choice Apple's Pages, and when I do I always use the "Paste and Match Style" to make sure the font face, color, etc is the same as the document I'm working on, however when I do that with the ESV from Logos I get this:
"Now this I say and dtestify in the Lord, ethat you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, fin the futility of their minds." (for Ephesians 4:17)
...which obviously, is not ideal.
When you think about it, having the visible superscripted ", e" or other letter doesn't make much practical sense for digital book (whereas with the printed book it is essentially the only way to point the reader to the footnote) A much more elegant solution would be to have it as a hover-over, or right click (etc) visible item only, and not show in the text when reading.
Does anyone know of a workaround for this, or anyone at know of an ESV bible (for Logos) that doesn't include this "feature" (the Cross Reference System)?
Many thanks
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Hi, maybe I am reading you wrong, but the copy/paste solution has always been available and is available now in A11.Brian Fox said:I copy and paste between Logos and my text editor of choice Apple's Pages, and when I do I always use the "Paste and Match Style" to make sure the font face, color, etc is the same as the document I'm working on, however when I do that with the ESV from Logos I get this:
"Now this I say and dtestify in the Lord, ethat you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, fin the futility of their minds." (for Ephesians 4:17)
...which obviously, is not ideal.
1. Select the range of verses you want to copy.
2. Right click to open the Context Menu
3. Click on the option on the Right side for "Reference"
4. Click the Copy [Verse Range]... in my example the verse range is Romans 8:26-39
5. Open Pages
6. Right click to open the Context Menu
7. Click option to "Paste and Match Style"
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If you are right clicking and getting that popup menu, you select the verse section (IE Luke 12:14-18) and select copy (not the copy at the top of the dialogue but the copy command midway) and you can copy the verse without all the references added.
Example:
Regular Copy
I Have Overcome the World
25 “I have said these things to you in figures of speech. uThe hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf; 27 vfor the Father himself loves you, because wyou have loved me and xhave believed that I came from God.1 28 yI came from the Father and have come into the world, and now zI am leaving the world and going to the Father.”
The copy Command midway down the contextual popup box: (This command appears above the passage guide command)John 16:25–28 (ESV)
I Have Overcome the World
25 “I have said these things to you in figures of speech. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf; 27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. 28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father.”
Best answer I can offer. LOL...
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Well, he gave pretty visuals. But we are saying the SAME thing unless there is something else you are after. LOL.
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That is one way to get the desired pasting functionality to be sure. But really.... Right Click to Copy? I know of about .00001% of Mac users that would do that to Copy instinctively or intuitively. Command-C is the way that every single other app copies: and I know that this was added to the last beta, but that method still it copies in the "basic" copy way (i.e.: with footnotes, per my example above).
This is a workaround to the basic issue, but does nothing to remove the footnotes from being "visible" in Logos. I.E: I still see the super-scripted letters while reading the ESV bible in Logos (which are not present in most other translations).
//Suggestion for Improvement // That brings up another major issue with the UI (user interface) design of Logos for the Mac: It violates the very essence of what Mac Programs have done for years: It provides functionality that can only be accessed with a Right Click. Sure most every user is capable of using a Right click. But Applications designed for Mac are designed in such a way as every function that can be accomplished by a right click can also be done using a menu item. This both "dumbs down" and "smartens up" an app at the same time. For those users for whom a Right click is difficult or unintuitive, they are able to do the same thing without having to try Right clicking, for those Power Users (which I would consider myself) they can either use the built in Shortcut Key (Command-C) or bind their own shortcut key to ANY menu item (bypassing the whole mouse in the first place. This is not a small issue when dealing with the platform, and one I hope the developers would address in future updates.
In-fact the Apple User Interface Guidelines state that should be the case for all Mac Apps:
"Always ensure that contextual menu items are also available as menu commands. A contextual menu is hidden by default and a user might not know it exists, so it should never be the only way to access a command. In particular, you should not use a contextual menu as the only way to access an advanced or power-user feature."
// End Suggestion //
I am very pleased with the development of the program, particularly in the recent versions...but this is one issue that has bugged me since using Logos... I want to view my ESV without those footnotes. ;-)
(EDITED: Joe was correct: This is not a "rant" but a "suggestion for improvement" -- I misused the word.)
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so you would like to change your original complaint that there is no way to do it, that you don't like the way it is done?Brian Fox said:That is one way to get the desired pasting functionality to be sure. But really.... Right Click to Copy?
Oh well... a few more minutes of my life wasted helping someone who only wanted to rant and then complains more about another issue.
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I posted a quote from and Link to the Apple User Interface guidelines not to "complain" but to put some reasoning behind my lack of understanding for a user interface decision made by Logos. My desire is not to complain for complaint sake, but to actually equip the Logos for Mac team with some information that will help the application become more user friendly.
Getting back to the point... if there IS anyone out there that knows how to VIEW the ESV Bible (in Logos) without the cross-references visible, please let me know.... thanks!
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ATTITUDE???
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Brian Fox said:
Getting back to the point... if there IS anyone out there that knows how to VIEW the ESV Bible (in Logos) without the cross-references visible, please let me know.... thanks!
Yes in the PC world - go to the filters (3 interlinked circles) and select Bible text only ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Joe Miller said:
1. Select the range of verses you want to copy.
2. Right click to open the Context Menu
3. Click on the option on the Right side for "Reference"
4. Click the Copy [Verse Range]... in my example the verse range is Romans 8:26-39
JOE!!!!!!!
Bless you, my son!
I paste verses weekly, into a Word document, so that I can make little cut-out Bible verses for handing out.
Until today, I have been backspacing out those superscripts and typing in a blank space between the words.
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Brian, the copy / paste problem you have is not symptomatic of anything. There is a facility in Logos to copy and paste and not show the footnote references as you posted in your original message. You were clearly unaware of how to do it. I showed you how footnotes can be removed to get just the text. Your response was essentially, "but that is not good enough" Fine, you don't like the way Logos implements copy and past. You are welcome to your opinion and welcome to express your dislike. But a simple, "Joe, thanks for showing me how to do that. But, I wish Logos had another way to do it and here is how...." would suffice.Brian Fox said:The pasting portion was symptomatic of what I was describing, and I do appreciate your effort to help with the symptom (pasting into Pages).
You called your own comment a "rant"... not me. So I used the little right click Context Menu designed by Apple to get a definition (you may not know about this menu since (in your opinion) this feature does not conform to the Apple standards so here is a screenshot.Brian Fox said:FYI: I posted a quote from and Link to the Apple User Interface guidelines not to "complain"
hmmm... can't seem to find the "Look up in Dictionary" command in the Safari menu??? Who put that there??? Was it.. Apple??? Maybe you should send the Safari designers your link Brian.
Oh wait, I can't find that option in the Safari menu either... only the right click menu... what is happening to the Apple vision???
I digress...
So according to the the "un-mac-like" dictionary that I access with my "un-mac-like" right-click menu that violates the Apple standards of NEVER putting anything in the right-click menu that is not in the toolbar--a rant Brian is to "speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way :" Not exactly constructive input, but that was your characterization of your own comments, not mine.
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We don't yet have that option on the Mac side so I did not want to mention that unless I was sure it was there for ESV. Thanks for solving this major problem Brian was having.MJ. Smith said:Brian Fox said:Getting back to the point... if there IS anyone out there that knows how to VIEW the ESV Bible (in Logos) without the cross-references visible, please let me know.... thanks!
Yes in the PC world - go to the filters (3 interlinked circles) and select Bible text only ...
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Joe Miller said:
Yes in the PC world - go to the filters (3 interlinked circles) and select Bible text only ...
Actually MJ, when I do that, I get the verse numbers from within my selected range and also a final number at the end, showing footnote.
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Thanks MJ.... that method works on Libronix 1 for the mac as well, but not yet in the Mac Alpha's of version 4. That gets rid of the cross-references, but also gets rid of everything else: paragraph breaks, ESV Section headings, etc...
I know that other translations have cross-reference systems, but the Libronix Versions don't include them by default... is there a way to exclude *just* the cross-references from showing without throwing everything else out also? That is what I was doing in Logos 1, and is a fine work-around.
I surely can't be the only one who thinks the superscripts in the text are distracting. If anyone from Logos is reading; can we possibly get a version of the ESV that does not include the cross-reference system?0 -
Sorry you were having to do that brother. I am glad my post was a help to someone. Blessings to you :-)Dan Sheppard said:JOE!!!!!!!
Bless you, my son!
I paste verses weekly, into a Word document, so that I can make little cut-out Bible verses for handing out.
Until today, I have been backspacing out those superscripts and typing in a blank space between the words.
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Joe Miller said:
I used the little right click Context Menu designed by Apple to get a definition (you may not know about this menu since (in your opinion) this feature does not conform to the Apple standards so here is a screenshot. hmmm... can't seem to find the "Look up in Dictionary" command in the Safari menu??? Who put that there??? Was it.. Apple??? Maybe you should send the Safari designers your link Brian. Oh wait, I can't find that option in the Safari menu either... only the right click menu... what is happening to the Apple vision??
To answer your question about the Dictionary application: Every application on your Mac can make it's "Services" available globally via the "Services" menu accessable under every applications menu. In the example you cited "Safari", the Dictonary.app's service of "Look Up in Dictionary" is available under the services menu (and can be given a unique short-cut key binding in the System Preferences under Keyboard should one desire)
Does every app follow the UI guidelines perfectly? No. But doing so does help users intuitively use an application.
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Personally wish Logos 4 had several set display view options: Cross Reference, Passage Headers, and Chapter/Verse Numbers (not present in original autographs - added later). By the way, did check Logos 4 wiki for available settings:
http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Commands
With Passage Header on, but Cross Reference and Chapter/Verse numbers turned off, ESV John 1:1-18 passage display looks similar to:
The Word Became Flesh
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own peopledid not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’ ”) And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only God,who is at the Father’s side,he has made him known.
In Logos for Mac 1.2.2, found Bible Text Only option:
Removes paragraph formatting along with Cross Reference italics, but still has Chapter and Verse numbers.
Note: original Mac interface guidelines specified lower right corner to resize windows - has not changed for decades, yet couple title bar buttons have changed sides. Wish Apple's UI would allow screen resizing by dragging any window edge. In contrast, (goofy me) - like placing Windows Start button in same place as Apple Logo since like hierarchical menus going down and right.
Keep Smiling
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@Brian... "I know of about .00001% of Mac users that would do that to Copy instinctively or intuitively. "
I must be a part of that NARROW .00001% that has been right clicking since Apple introduced contextual menus on the mac...
As a side note, I find it interesting that Final Cut and Adobe users use right clicking extensively... Contextual menus are used EXTENSIVELY throughout the Mac OS
I right click to toss an item in the trash.
Hence Apple waking up and making the mighty mouse...
Hence Apple making the track pad a 2 finger right click option... Nothing to gripe about. right click and flow. IF you ask me trying to do it the other way is TOOOO SLOW. I right click in Pages extensively...
How do you Paste and match style in Pages?? The key commands? the mouse to edit menu? or right click....
I Know I right click to correct spelling ALMOST exclusively... Contextual Menus are the BOMB diggity....
BTW MAC User since 1984. Exclusively since 1992....
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I use a mighty mouse, and have used 3-5 button mice extensively for years on my Mac... but quite frankly, using a mouse for just about anything is too slow for me. ;-) I'm a Keyboard shortcut junkie, and use keyboard shortcuts for everything from launching apps, to changing songs in iTunes, to you name it... The reason the menu items is so valuable (other than the continuity with other Mac apps) is because with Menu items, regardless of what defaults a company has set for them, I can remap them.
Adobe apps use the Right-Click extensively also...but they too stick to the UI paradigm of having a Menu item. One interesting and notable example is Adobe Lightroom (which I use constantly)...where the menu items actually change depending on which module you are in. It is a bit confusing at first, but at least there are menu items to access.
To paste and match style in Pages, I just (now without even thinking because of muscle memory) press: Command+Option+Shift+V
Mousing around is too slow for me... but I know it's great for most users. I love contextual menus myself as well, and have absolutely no problem with them as an option. For many functions they are faster and better... but just don't think they should be the only way to do something. Just my $.02.
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With Passage Header on, but Cross Reference and Chapter/Verse numbers turned off, ESV John 1:1-18 passage display looks similar to:
Thanks Keep Smiling.... but where did you set those options? Is that only available on the Windows side?
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Much better argument. LOL.
Give em time. it is an alpha. And there are only SO MANY key mods you can create. OF course, I am a Key Cue user because flipping from audio mixing to video editing to photoshop work to ... you get the idea. Who can rememebr all those key commands for all those different programs.
At least the space bar still means start/stop the transport in Motion, FCP, Logic, DP7, Mix Bus, After Effects, Premiere, etc.. LOL...
One consistent key command. LOL.
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Brian Fox said:
With Passage Header on, but Cross Reference and Chapter/Verse numbers turned off, ESV John 1:1-18 passage display looks similar to:
Thanks Keep Smiling.... but where did you set those options? Is that only available on the Windows side?
Currently not know of Logos4 display options on any platform. Previous post gave me idea of copy, paste, and backspace to create desired display example.
Later thought about many New Testament "Books" that were composed as letters without chapter and verse numbers. For contextual bible study, like to read letter as a letter without distracting references. During comparison study, like to see cross reference and numbering - hence wish for several display options, ideally with keyboard shortcuts and menu options to change easily.
Keep Smiling
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